3:51 pm July 22, 2009, by David O'Brien
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
July 22nd, 20095:18 pm
This has nothing to do with the Braves as it concerns Halladay…but John Kruk made a pretty good point yesterday on the latter edition of Sports Center
He said that the Phils would be stupid to wait around for Kyle Drabek. They don’t know if he’ll be able to help them and be the type of pitcher they hope he’ll be in 2, 3 years. They could have that *great pitcher* NOW with Halladay.
What I’m trying to say with that said…….Wren oughta think along those same lines as far as getting someone to help the Braves now……(aka a power bat to bat between Chipper and Mac) because you really don’t know how this prospect, that prospect will do 2, 3 years or longer down the road.
“Man, if Minor doesn’t sign”
I almost hope he doesn’t.
“Tonight is when the Braves will choke.”
Losing to Tim Lincecum hardly qualifies as a choke.
July 22nd, 20095:19 pm
Kotch and LaRoach would look like Gayle Sayers running past Bruce Benedict.
How can you say choke when it’s against the Freak…we are underdogs tonight. JJ is solid but he isn’t the Freak
Buffalo NY Braves Fan
Darn, I was looking forward to the vacation too…. haha
Steve from OH
July 22nd, 20095:20 pm
Ever hear of a solo home run Dude?
Lemme know the next time someone hits 90 solo homers in a season to bring up that RBI total to an acceptable number for you old-timers…
Driving in 4 runs with the bases loaded 8 or 9 times is acceptable?
“Are his teammates on base?” Yes 3 of them
“Are they in scoring position?” Yes, 2 out of the 3 of them.
What is so hard about this? Answer the question. 4 RBIS in 9 PAs with the bases loaded, good or bad?
Piedmont Blues (ex-BFIR)
Doesn’t matter how many teams are in the Wild Card race once you’re in first. The Braves should be no more than four games out by the end of the day — chasing two teams.
Get to first place and then you control your own destiny.
MLB average w/ 300 PA = 34 RBI
Kotchman @ 300 PA = 35 RBI
See, he is an above-average run producer…
July 22nd, 20095:22 pm
Also Dude – you didn’t answer my question. Doesn’t the batter actually have to do something in order to produce the RBI? You know, like a sac fly, RBI groundout or something? If RBI’s are so meaningless – then tell that to the actual players who play the game. You know, the guys that receive all the high fives and back slaps in the dugout when they do produce an RBI, even when they make an out while doing so.
July 22nd, 20095:23 pm
Over 9 PAs? Seriously? You wanna judge based on 9 plate appearances? Do I have to write a friggin’ essay on sample size now? Sorry pal, I ain’t Paul Lentz. Figure it out for yourself. Maybe it’ll do you some good…
Eric from MO
Wow, Dude now claims that if you dont have many RBIs it is because you dont have enough solo homeruns. WOW!
I now envision that he is going to tell me thats not what he said, but what else could it mean? You claim Kotchman doesnt have enough RBIs, and I said thats based on other players being on base, then you said he could have solo homeruns. So yeah, I do believe that is all he could mean.
July 22nd, 20095:24 pm
“If RBI’s are so meaningless”
They’re not meaningless. Why the hell is it so hard for people to grasp this concept. They’re important for individual game performances and how they effect the game. But they’re lousy for evaluating players as RBI’s aren’t a direct function of a players’ ability. They’re not meaningless. But if you’re trying to evaluate players, they’re pretty close to meaningless.
Daslied – Lol, that makes me laugh. Would you like me to post the numbers of NL 1st baseman? He is 15th or 16th in almost all the categories except for average.
July 22nd, 20095:25 pm
DOB- love Radiohead and that song is one of the best on the album, next to All I Need & Reckoner. What do you of his solo stuff?
And what are everyone elses numbers with the bases loaded? The 4 RBI’s in 9 PA’s would put him at a 45% success rate of driving in a runner. That is acceptable, considering you don’t know the situation of each PA.
For instance, if there are 2 outs and ONLY a hit can drive them in, that is a GREAT percentage. If there are less than 2 outs and a sac fly or ground out can score the runner, still acceptable.
No one here is saying that Kotchman is Ryan Howard and should be hitting clean up on this team. He’s a servicable #7 or #8 hitter and he’s a great defensive 1B.
sorry what do you think of Thom Yorke’s solo stuff?
July 22nd, 20095:26 pm
If RBI’s are so meaningless – then tell that to the actual players who play the game.
Dude…you’ve gotta be one of the thickest guys on the blog. Look–RBI aren’t “meaningless” in the sense of “did my team score?” They’re meaningless in the sense of “how good is the player in question?” I realize that you may be either too stubborn or too dense to realize this, but whatever floats your boat, buddy…
So I guess if Kotchman gets a hit or a walk and the whole dugout doesnt run out onto the field and interrupt the game to give him a high 5 or slap him on the back, then it just doesnt mean anything.
Book it: Braves loose 2-0 tonight!
So help me out people, if Roachy was traded to BoSox, what happend to Youk? Injured? Moved to DH?
July 22nd, 20095:27 pm
Tonight is when the Braves will choke?
They’re going against the best pitcher in baseball. Not sure, if they lose, it can be considered a ‘choke.’ Lincecum could make the 27 Yankees choke then if that’s the case.
3-3 DBacks and Rockies, in the 8th
July 22nd, 20095:28 pm
Just a few more days until Kelly comes off the DL and I can put him back in the lineup in place of Prado! And I’ll keep using Norton to pinch hit, and ask Matty D to bunt all the time. We’ll win for sure!
If only Frank Wren can keep KJ, Bennett, Carlyle and JoJo off the MLB roster so Cox won’t immediately use them – we have a shot.
Youk moves to third base because Lowell is in bad shape.
July 22nd, 20095:29 pm
That’s right once the Phils lose the Braves will follow suit today
I think PWH said it better than I did…what he said.
MiltonDawg, 3B man. For the frequently injured Mike Lowe.
Casey K among NL 1st Baseman
16th in runs scored
13th in hits
8th in doubles
Last in triples
18th in Homers (that’s sad)
13th in RBIs
12th in BBs
Last in SBs
14th in OB%
18th in SLG
10th in AVG
MFin04 ~ “Daslied – Lol, that makes me laugh. Would you like me to post the numbers of NL 1st baseman?”
Dude, don’t judge something I posted when you based your analysis on 9 PA’s.
forget the curveball, Ricky
give ‘em the heater
Mfin no he isnt. He is down in homeruns and RBIS. If he was 15 or 16 in everything you would of just posted it. But your talking out of your a$$ and everyone knows it, except for Dude, and Dude is probably you just posting under another name to make it look like there is another moron actually agreeing with you.
Guess this kinda puts an end to MFin09’s theory about Kotchman not hitting with men on, huh? (STEVE)
no way dude, MF never lets facts get in the way of a good rant
July 22nd, 20095:30 pm
good one kentava: does knocking people with disabilities (Carlyle) make you smile?
Eric from MO
July 22nd, 2009
Wow, Dude now claims that if you dont have many RBIs it is because you dont have enough solo homeruns. WOW!
I am doing nothing of the sort. I am responding to this statement:
July 22nd, 2009
Yes Dude, but doesnt somebody have to be on base to produce that run?
They’re going against the best pitcher in baseball.
I thought the Braves beat him earlier this year.
Bases Loaded for Pads!
Buffalo good post at 5:25
The_Superhoo (Montana by way of Virginia)
July 22nd, 20095:31 pm
Losing to The Freak is NOT a choke. Slight let-down maybe, but hey I expect to lose tonight and hope to be surprised. Winning is a bonus.
Also, “Dude…seriously?,” why don’t you post under your real name instead of hiding under a pseudonym? Folks would take you a lot more seriously that way instead of looking at you as a coward who isn’t willing to engage under his standard moniker.
What is up with this?
You said yourself that Kotchman was a good enough bottom-of-the-order hitter. And that’s right where he is. At the bottom of the order.
So what’s the problem?
July 22nd, 20095:32 pm
Buffalo NY Braves Fan – I’m saying the same thing. He is a great 7th and 8th hitter, he just isn’t a great run producer like a “Ryan Howard”. He is the 12th-16th best offensive first baseman in the NL. Probably top 3 best defensively.
The Padres, despite their record, may actually be worse than the Nationals. Whew, awful watching them.
Dude do you want him to hit 40 solo homeruns to get it up to your standard then?
July 22nd, 20095:33 pm
Nobody here, I hope, thinks Kotchman is a great run producer.
He’s an average-hitting, great-fielding first baseman. Which is OK, because the braves have above-average hitting everywhere else in the infield.
July 22nd, 20095:34 pm
Mfin you included AL in your rankings, at least some of them, congratulations.
BIG DUDE…………..I suggested the very thing that you said in your 4:37pm posting about a month ago. I was RIPPED and RIDICULED for having the nerve to buck the “Fire Frank Wren” crowd.
Notice how you cant get a peep out of them now, except to take cheap shots at me that arent baseball related.
July 22nd, 20095:35 pm
Who in the hell on here compared Kotchman to Howard?? Do you just need something to complain about? And there ain’t no “probably top 3 best defensively” about it. Now go ahead an tell me how his range factor sucks in Central time zones when the moon is in the waning gibbous phase.
Minor’s going to sign. There’s no chance he doesn’t. The Braves just want to keep his innings down this year, so there’s no need to start paying him before they have to.
chilidog75 – sadly people on here do think he is a great run producer, and there is the argument
July 22nd, 20095:36 pm
Hmmm, Boston is making more deals today!
Padres are really awful…can’t…hit…at….all. Whew. Putrid.
MFin04 Probably top 3 best defensively.
Wouldn’t no errors qualify him as the Top 1? IDK…maybe his “range factor” is off…
I thought I would compare Francouer’s numbers since the trade with the tandon of Diaz/Church (I’ll only use Diaz’s numbers when he has played in right field since the trade).
While Francoeur has the edge in batting average (so far, lol), Diaz/Church have a noticeable edge when it comes to runs scored and walks drawn. In fact Jeff hasnt drawn a walk in his last 91 at-bats, dating back to June 19th against Boston. In that time he has struck out 13 times (which for him is actually not bad, lol).
Rockies winning 4-3 on a Helton homer
Then what are you debating? Honestly, do you just pick arguments to get a rise out of people?
July 22nd, 20095:37 pm
Meanwhile, the Rockies take the lead 4-3…not good.
Kotchman, despite his faux-lack of ability to “drive in runs” (whatever that means) is more or less the very definition of an average hitter according to wOBA and a bit above average according to EqA. He’s top-notch with the glove. Hence, he becomes an above-average player. This isn’t hard, is it? Now, we can talk relative to position, which he is definitely below-average, but that still doesn’t mean he’s costing us runs, which he’s not.
In any case, this isn’t about that–it’s about MFin09’s baseless statement (what else is new) about Kotchman’s make-believe inability to hit with RISP, which is blatantly not true. And somehow, his density goaded me into another fruitless discussion about the futility of RBI as a performance metric. Well, that, and the other guy who won’t use his real name. But whatever. To each his own…
Rob from SC
You do realize that we are facing one of the best pitchers in baseball. If he does in fact beat us, that does not mean we chocked. There is a reason why Lincecum is called an Ace.
July 22nd, 20095:38 pm
Eric, stats are stats, those are all NL. Some could be skewed a little, but they balance out.
Daslied – I think he is top 3 defensively, but the only reason I dont say #1 is because he is so darn slow, surely someone is as good as he is, with better range. Maybe not. He seems to get to a lot of balls that you wouldn’t think he would get to.
IMO..Kotchy needs to bulk up. Would love to see him hit 12-15 HRs a year to add to his great D at 1B.
July 22nd, 20095:39 pm
Jurrjens throws 8 shutout innings, then the best closer in baseball closes down the door in the 9th.
Rob from SC,
You forgot to mention.. Cy Young winner, All-Star game starter, and league leader in K’s. All of which “the freak” can also be called haha.
July 22nd, 20095:40 pm
“I checked Dish last night on channel 499 as was said on the bloggage but it wasnt there. Any ideas if its different in middle TN?”
Try channel 449 on Dish. That is what the game was on last night here in MS.
July 22nd, 20095:41 pm
Paul Lentz–why the hell do you insist on going on about the F-word? Jesus man, just quit with it already. My God, how thick are you? Do you really think we care to see 50 friggin’ posts a day about how bad IOISIWDTPIOTS? is and how supposedly great Church is? Give it a damn rest already. We. Know. We. Don’t. Care. About. Him. Anymore. Got it?
Paul Lentz, your posts at 5:34 and 5:36…how is that possible?
We’ll be down 1-0 in the 8th. McLouth will walk. Prado will hit a 2 run HR to left field down the line.
Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
Good deal for both teams. The Red Sox rid themselves of Lugo and Cards get rid of their Francouer. But, still a very intriguing move for the Sox who already have outfielders.
July 22nd, 20095:42 pm
Steve – you can’t say he is above average as a player, but not compare him to other players at the same position. The Braves would be a better team with a top 3 offensive first baseman, and a 12-16th best defensive first baseman.
The argument is about Casey Kotchman not driving in runs like other first baseman (or driving in runs as well as he should being a first baseman) however you want to look at it.
Right now, the Braves can afford to rely on Casey Kotchman’s defense at first and bat him in the bottom part of the order because the Braves are getting above average pop from the catcher and shortstop positions. As long as Kotchman doesnt become an automatic out batting 8th, I can live with his lack of home run power. His defense helps compensate for his lack of pop as well.
I think the odds of getting the wild card are lower than winning the division are also lower because if you win your division, then you can’t win the wild card. Lots of things have to go wacky for you to win the wild card. You have to win, but not too much. I’m not sure if they consider that in the calculations or not, but seems to me that could be a reason, along with all the other teams you’re competing with.
The guy was hitting 3/4/5th in the lineup when KJ, Frenchy, and Schafer were still on the team, when Chipper was hurt, McCann had eye issues, etc… No one drove in runs then. Again, another pointless argument by those trying to knock the Kotch.
July 22nd, 20095:43 pm
The Braves will lose a close one tonight most likely: 3-1 or so. But have a great shot to take 3 of 4. Phillies lost, which is a pleasant surprise.
Now, if Jurrjens pitches his heart out tonight, and the hitters can force some high pitch counts, they could steal one.
NO MORE BOBBY
Kentavo – Your 5:28 comment is very true (and scary because you know Bobby can’t wait to get them back out there).
Steve from OH
July 22nd, 2009
Also, “Dude…seriously?,” why don’t you post under your real name instead of hiding under a pseudonym?
Are you so all – knowing and omnipotent that you can tell that I am hiding under a pseudonym? Didn’t think so.
I get very tired of reading a debate regarding whether or not Kotchman is an adequate run – producer, and then reading comments that demean the statistic that measures that exact ability.
Runs are the most valuable commodity in the game. You cannot win a baseball game unless you score at least one run. Therefore, run – producers are ALSO a very valuable commodity. RBI’s measure that ability very well, and have been and will continue to do so for a very long time.
Braves win 4-3 tonight in 11 innings.
July 22nd, 20095:44 pm
another thing about wild card calculations….Scheduling. The Braves play teams in their division more than teams in the West & Central. They can control their own fate more…
July 22nd, 20095:45 pm
I disagree with your 5:42pm. Kotchman does not only play errorless ball, he saves a ton of throwing errors from Yunel and Chipper. Neither of those two guys throw balls chest-high right into the glove.
I think we’ve beaten this thing to death though. I will agree he is an average hitting first baseman and an above average defensive first baseman, but I still think for what he is, he should have a lot more runs driven in being that he is a first baseman and was supposed to eventually hit for more power.
July 22nd, 20095:46 pm
Florida up 3-0 on San Diego
July 22nd, 20095:47 pm
Don’t be so negative. We beat Halladay with KK, we can beat the Freak with JJ. Braves 2-1
Steve – you can’t say he is above average as a player,
Compared to the league? Yes I damn sure can. Which isn’t all that detrimental considering we’ve got a top-tier 3B, SS, C, and for the time being, 2B. Like I said, this isn’t all that hard, is it?
The Braves would be a better team with a top 3 offensive first baseman, and a 12-16th best defensive first baseman.
Depends on how poor the defense was compared to the offense. You can give away as many runs statistically with the glove as you produce with the bat. Maybe not at 1B, certainly not a premium position, but please, think about what you’re saying.
But to say we’d be a better team with a top-3 offensive 1B as opposed to CK? No sh!t sherlock, thanks for the insight.
July 22nd, 20095:48 pm
Heath – I agree than Chipper and Yunel are both spoiled with Casey K over there digging out all their throws, but I’m not sure that an error saved here or there by a first baseman out-weights the big bat.
Rockies beat Arizona 4-3
I never thought I’d say this, but I wish Shaun would come on here and start arguing with Lentz.
Shaun and his awful (yet effective at driving you insane) debate skills would have Lentz throwing his fist through his computer in about 5 min.
re Dish package…are you saying that those of us in ohio will get no braves games?
July 22nd, 20095:49 pm
Some of you guys need to learn how to peacefully argue without name calling or swearing.
July 22nd, 20095:50 pm
Oh man…less than an hour-and-a-half till the game.
I almost forgot Lincecum leads the league in K’s! Oh crud…I hate K’s…
Yunel's Frosted Tips
The recent hot streak will only encourage the old goat to stay and manage another year and keep Greg Norton on this team
July 22nd, 20095:51 pm
Bobby’s Cox ……….do you have anything baseball related to bring up? You just wont let it go, lol. If you dont like my posts, all you have to do is IGNORE reading them.
Riddle me this, then you’ve been reading the blog long enough to have seen the other RBI conversations, and in the meantime, have never, ever posted anything ever? Riiiiggght.
RBI’s measure that ability very well, and have been and will continue to do so for a very long time.
They do not, but to each his own, I guess…
Nova Scotia Steve
We’re still talking about Kotch???
This is getting worse than the trade Escobar talk….
ok ok ok ok maybe its not THAT bad…
July 22nd, 20095:53 pm
We can win tonight guys. JJ is going to pitch well. Our D has been rock solid and our bats have woken up.
Bobby’s Cox–good points, per usual. What I posted was just my take on it, not gospel, LOL!
MFin04 but I’m not sure that an error saved here or there by a first baseman out-weights the big bat.
So…his incredible defense doesn’t outweigh his “weak” bat…And some say BMac’s big bat doesn’t outweigh his errors…
What is it that people want??
July 22nd, 20095:54 pm
I meant “weak” defense for BMac…not errors…
July 22nd, 20095:55 pm
Look I post this same comment every week, Adam Dunn is the perfect ingredient for us to win period, this year and next year, we can always look towards the future and be the rays, but you gotta remember the rays sucked for a bunch of years. They aren’t gonna ask for heyward or hansen, we have youth all over the field so why stockpile. We have a youthful SS, 2B, CF, C two stellar young pitchers, so why do we “have to have” more prospects.With huddy next year, we have to be the faves for the division. don’t sell the farm but get adam dunn ( it will be completely different than the teixeria trade). Thank You all and good night.
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