3:47 pm July 21, 2009, by David O'Brien
July 21st, 200911:45 pm
Jeremiah……..Norton got an RBI on a hit that was a grounder between the 3rd baseman and shortstop. It was nothing special. Since that one hit, he hasnt done anything.
And just because someone is “hot” at Triple A, does not mean that they will continue to rake it in the Majors.
Now is not the time for “charity at-bats” or “let’s give him a chance to get on track (when it is a long shot that he will get on track) at-bats”. It’s the time of year where we need clutch players being given chances to stay sharp and deliver in the clutch.
Start rooting for Chad Quals… He’s facing the heart of the order in the bottom of the 9th with a 1-run lead over the Rockies.
July 21st, 200911:46 pm
Steve, it’s best you just forget.
Why Steve from Ohio is wrong..
Prado was on the bench for how long? Who chose to stick with the slumping KJ? Oh yeah that guy with no value..either way. Seriously players need to perform like you say but Kelly wasnt performing, at times like that managers need to perform and do whats best for the club. Cox didnt. How many wins is Prado worth? the numbers show that Prado’s presence let a fire in this team. Where was he all that time? Can Prado write his own name in the lineup or is it the job of that guy with no value..either way?
July 21st, 200911:47 pm
wait, maybe we do with Cody Johnson. (AD)
ah, no. not anywhere near that class at this time.
Hey for once someone is posting pictures that are worth looking at.
Roman Gal, I’m sure you already took note, but if you didn’t Riaan Spanjer-Furstenburg went deep again.
July 21st, 200911:48 pm
DOB my satellite signal went out….can you bring a ladder and help me fix it?
1 out in bottom 9th now…go D-Backs!
Time to vote on the most amazing stat:
1) Joe DiMaggio’s 56 game hitting streak.
2) Cy Young’s 749 complete games.
3) Paul Lentz’s 103 straight posts (and counting) without using the words, MORONS or IDIOTS.
Fast Eddie Perez
July 21st, 200911:49 pm
Doc, you forgot bout Acosta, he’s good for BP though, trade Norton to Mickie D’s!!! LMAO he’s worth a Happy Meal!!!
July 21st, 200911:50 pm
I’m impressed with Paul, too.
I suspect that Greg Norton is on the cusp. Capt. Caveman “reported” that he would be released in Colorado (which seemed reasonable), but Norton was activated instead. You’ve got to figure someone (BC) argued that he get “one last chance.” This call is on Frank Wren, not Bobby Cox. The GM has authority over the roster moves.
Norton is either the “pinch hit specialist” or he has no place on the roster. BC either needs to call on him in those situations where he is supposed to produce, or Norton needs to be released.
To Coach’s question, you only fire Bobby if the team plays miserably and loses 100 games.
The current Braves team is doing what many of the winning Braves teams has done. They fiddled around for the first half until they knew what they really had to work with. They made a couple of critical roster moves around the trade deadline. Then, they start winning series.
Early this year and most of last year, you got the sense that the club-house was not very functional. This is one of the most important functions of the manager. However, right now, you get the sense that everyone is on the same page. You’ve got to give the Front Office and the Manager credit for restoring the confidence that the Braves are competitive.
I say, good job Bobby and Frank for getting this mess turned around. Keep it up.
The A Bomb
FINAL. . . Arizona 6, Colorado 5
July 21st, 200911:51 pm
We need Rollins to have a collision with Ibañez on a pop fly
Coach (2010 or Bust)
The Bird and Indian, just give it time. The Pundits will figure it out.
Personally, I love Bobby Cox. But I cannot forget nor forgive losing four out of Five World Series. Fourteen straight division winners should have resulted in a post season dynasty, not a one trick pony.
Cox deserves the bulk of the blame for the post season, and just as much credit for what happened during the regular season. Bobby rebuilt the minor league system as the GM then took over the managers position, and started the longest division winning streak in ML history. He brought Leo Mazzone on board and had a hand in the hiring of John Scheurholz. Cox is like your favorite grampa, we all just love the guy even if he drools and picks his nose. Well, most of us.
Some of us also realize that he is way past his prime as a field manager. If I had my way, I would fire Cox today and personally cart his fat ass into Cooperstown tomorrow. That pretty much sums up Bobby Cox for me.
Arizona just beat Colorado. Braves move into third in the wild card race, 3 games back.
What are the postseason odds now with the Rockies loss?
Diamondbacks beat the Rockies 6-5.
Its official………3 games back and the freak on the mount tomorrow night,.
Eric from MO
People please, the Braves have won 16 of 20 and you all want to get rid of Cox. Cox manages his players great, he doesnt make the greatest in game decisions, but he manages his players. A lesser manager’s team would of fell apart and would not being making a postseason run right now. The Braves did this all the time in the 90’s, be several games back at he break and then make a run. They are doing it again, because Bobby doesnt allow his team to think it is over.
July 21st, 200911:52 pm
I knew you’d enjoy looking at good pictures. I mean, what’s not to like?
Riaan Spanjer-Furstenburg went deep again.
It’s been a beautiful day, no?
July 21st, 200911:53 pm
I can’t get it out of my head that KJ could help this team comin’ down the stretch. (Off the bench) I see a pinch hitting and pinch running role…maybe a few starts @ 2B with Prado @1B vs a tough lefty or if Prado gives Chipper a day off @ 3B. ( I know !!…maybe Infante involved on this one)
DH is gone when Infante arrives….KJ SHOULD bump Norton out…but alas…it’ll probably be Conrad. Well…we shall see…gonna get interestin’ for sure.
Fast Eddie Perez,
I cant be against Acosta………he is from Panama………..
The Bird and Indian
Coach: I do think Bobby has screwed us over in some games this year but he’s just not going to get fired. At the same time he’s a HOF coach that I have a lot of respect for. I can’t call him overrated for what he’s done.
Steve from OH
July 21st, 200911:54 pm
Oh, I’m sorry? You think Prado is worth more than our best hitter and our best pitcher combined? LOL! Hey, why don’t you use your real name and then we’ll talk, ok?
Paul Lentz, You hit submit on your 11:51 on accident didn’t you?
The Ol' Nexter
Has Terry Pendleton been FIRED yet?
July 21st, 200911:55 pm
Eric from MO,
Thats is Cox job………he gets paid for it……….and much more………..use his head, ie.
July 21st, 200911:56 pm
What the hell was that Roman Gal?
July 21st, 200911:57 pm
rharling……….concerning your 11:43pm posting, if you think that Bobby will “do the right thing” on his own when it comes to cutting one of “his boys”, then you have a short memory when it comes to how he has handled “his boys” in the past.
It has to come from Frank Wren. And I’m sure that Frank Wren has to balance “doing what is right” for the team……….with not pissing Bobby Cox off by making a move that Bobby does not agree with. Because ultimately, it’s the manager’s job to use the players that a GM gives him.
Yet what happens if the manager doesnt use the players properly? You struggle like the Braves did for the first 3 months of the season.
July 21st, 200911:58 pm
Is that the oldest brother from Cheaper by the Dozen?
Your right Doc, that is his job, and he does it well. Which is why he gets paid. He gets the best out of his players.
July 21st, 200911:59 pm
Just a little something to amuse myself with.
July 22nd, 200912:01 am
I didn’t even bother opening that picture knowing it would be something I didn’t want to look at.
July 22nd, 200912:02 am
John………..if you have visions in your head of Kelly doing “helping the Braves down the stretch”….then you are smoking some bad SH!T, lol. You just like Kelly Johnson and want to see him do well. However, if you look at Kelly’s body of work this year.then your hallucinations will go away.
July 22nd, 200912:03 am
Coach lets review the 5 WS.
1991, Lonnie Smith stops on the basepath, not Cox’s fault.
1992, Braves beat a better Pirates team to get to the WS and lost to a MUCH better Blue Jays team.
1995 Braves win.
1996, maybe the only one you can blame on Cox, but you can also blame it on the players. They choked.
1999 one hell of a job to make it. They had no shot at it. The Yankees had better SP, better bullpen, and better offense.
Thing was Glavine and Maddux were not great at pitching in the postseason. To win in the postseason you need power pitching and the Braves only had one,Smoltz. Umps make the strikezone smaller, which is why you need power pitchers.
July 22nd, 200912:04 am
The Bird and Indian-
It’s not that bad.
fastasballs……….what do you mean “did I accidently hit my submit button at 11:51pm”? The Diamondbacks did beat the Rockies 6-5.
July 22nd, 200912:05 am
WC W L PCT GB
CO 51 43 .543 –
SF 50 43 .538 .5
AT 48 46 .511 3
I’ll never forget in ‘91 Series against the Twins when Booby brought in freakin Charlie Liebrandt to pitch to Kirby Puckett, I said game over & amazing Kirby hits a game winning homer off of Charlies slo azz, that cost us the Series with that brilliant decision, so how can we continue to support Booby???? His pitching moves are a huge problem now & then so it doesnt have anything to do with being too old to manage, he was doing dumb things back then
If Paul Lentz says something, you’d better take it to heart and believe it. Just look at his body of work here on the blog. He’s NEVER been wrong and he ALWAYS makes sense.
July 22nd, 200912:06 am
Paul Lentz, It’s the shortest post I’ve ever read of yours. I was just thinking you hit submit by accident. Just messing with you, lol.
Since noon today, DOB has posted 25 times, Paul Lentz 107 times. What have we learned from this?
1) I need a life.
2) Dave doesn’t post enough.
July 22nd, 200912:07 am
ultimately, it’s the manager’s job to use the players that a GM gives him.
Paul Lentz — As much of a Cox critic as I have been I see the old geezer trying hard to change the way he manages this team.
EXAMPLE: Last night he stuck with Hanson to get the last out of the 7th against Sandoval, as opposed to July 4 when he pulled him after 7 (which I am still pissed about).
Bunting has been wonderful, except for Matt “Bob Robertson” Diaz last night. Stolen bases. Sac flies.
That is why things are turning around. He is changing his managing style before our eyes. He’s put his Earl Weaver philosophy aside because we don’t have that kind of power. Funny — now we’re starting to homer as well.
And we’re seeing less TV shots of McDowell, Pendleton, Cadahia, Snitker, etc. . . which is always a good thing.
If you answer this, try to do it in less than 3 sentences — my Ritalin has not kicked in yet.
July 22nd, 200912:09 am
What are the postseason odds now with the Rockies loss?”
Comically small according to some obviously malfunctioning automated calculation people keep quoting anyway.
It’s a good thing I don’t get grouchy when I haven’t eaten, but perhaps we shouldn’t continue testing that theory tonight…
Eric, explain the other nine season we made the post season and remember, I’m not the one making excuses for Bobby Cox…….YOU ARE.
July 22nd, 200912:11 am
Paul…that was just….rude. I’ve always been quite civil with you. I….am….hurt…and btw…my sh!t is ALWAYS primo…
Somewhere along the line…Norton hits the highway….and KJ IS an improvement over Greggy.
July 22nd, 200912:13 am
I used to post a lot more.
I’m done posting a lot more.
July 22nd, 200912:14 am
I don’t necessarily agree with those who think the manager simply accepts the players provided by the GM. I’m sure several individuals, including the manager, team president, pitching coach, scouts, Paul Lentz (just kidding), etc. participate in the player personnel selection process. For example, Wren said that the scouts determined that Glavine was incapable of succeeding at the major league level, therefore he was released. Alternatively, it sounded like Cox wanted Norton activated from the DL because the bench was thin due to injuries.
July 22nd, 200912:15 am
Race to 90 Wins:
-Phi 37-34 (Gonna happen, and more)
-Col 39-29 (Could happen, but not is the pitching going to hold up?)
- SF 40-29 (Could happen, but is there enough offense?)
-ATL 42-26 (Could happen, can offense keep the surge going?)
Still think the Wild Card is much better odds for the Braves if you look at what is realistic, not just statistics.
July 22nd, 200912:17 am
Uh. . . Heath, wait til the trade deadline before you do that. . . Philly will be getting another starter even if it’s not Halladay.
We’re an 85-90 win team at best. Philly is a 90-95 win team. Proved it again tonight. Bullpen is on fire. Objective point of view.
“1992, Braves beat a better Pirates team to get to the WS and lost to a MUCH better Blue Jays team.”
The Blue Jays were hardly the better team. Jeff Reardon killed us. If he doesn’t blow it with Ed Sprague, we win that series in a walk.
July 22nd, 200912:19 am
Ok, Coach, the last 6 we played in a weak division and didnt have a complete team. Every team in our division choked during the season to the Braves allowing our streak to be much longer than it should of been. The Marlins always tore up their team, the Phillies were not that good early in the decade, and Steve Phillips was a moron when it came to building teams and the Expos suck. This all allowed the Braves to continue to make the postseason. Then we lost to better teams.
93 we lost to a better Phillies team. 97 we lost to a red hot Marlins team who ended up winning the Series.
98 I do believe we should of made it to the WS.
You can blame Cox all you want, but I have seen many, including you I do believe, who think Sweet Lou is a better manager. He had as good as teams with Seatle and never even made it to the WS. Sciosia has only won one. Earl Weaver only won one with just as good as rotation. Gardenhire has yet to make it to the WS. Even Joe Torre has lost the past 8 years.
Fact is back in the day when you made it to the postseason you had a 50% chance of winning. Now you make the postseason you have a 12.5% chance of winning. It is easier to make it to the postseason but it is harder to win it all.
“Thing was Glavine and Maddux were not great at pitching in the postseason.”
This always kills me when someone says this. Maddux had 23 unearned runs and very little run support in 27 postseason starts with the Braves. His postseason ERA was 3.27, not much higher than his career 3.16 ERA, and if you just take the postseason games with the Braves its down to 2.80. Just awful!
Maddux had a 2.09 ERA in 5 World Series starts with a 0.91 WHIP, yet he was 2-3 in those games. And of course, W-L record is obviously the most important statistics in measuring how well a pitcher performs.
I really tire of this myth that Maddux was some postseason bum, and hate it when Braves fans buy into it. People who try to diminish his accomplishments always bring this up, but the facts are what they are.
If we’re STILL anywhere near ONLY 7%… to be the wildcard winner….I’m STILL wanting to make a substantial wager on the Braves… if there’s any takers out there…Paul ?…Are you a gamblin’ man ?
July 22nd, 200912:20 am
Also dont forget the great Indians of the 90’s and they never won it.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
Was that you in the pic at 11:41 p.m.?
July 22nd, 200912:21 am
where are som pix of you in a Braves gear?
July 22nd, 200912:23 am
Doug didnt mean he was a bum, but he wasnt a Smoltz or Beckett or Gibson. He wasnt a guy that if the defense messed up, he couldnt just SO the next guy.
July 22nd, 200912:24 am
The A Bomb -
The point of that, sir, is because I have been arguing (not literally) that the Braves are not likely to win the East and have far better chances to win the WC. This, despite others posting statistical “proof” otherwise.
July 22nd, 200912:26 am
The A Bomb………I agree with you on being pissed about Bobby Cox pulling Tommy Hanson in that Rockies game a few weeks back. However, I felt last night that Bobby should have pulled Hanson when there were 2 outs in the top of the 7th of last night’s game with Sandoval coming up. What made this game different from the Colorado game was the fact that Hanson was laboring in last night’s game. He was at 105 pitches when Sandoval came up to the plate. Even though Hanson had “owned” Sandoval in his previous at-bats, things can change when a pitcher gets tired.
While I disagree with leaving him in the game last night for that last out in the 7th……..I understand the reasoning of leaving him in. It’s one of those moves that could go either way. Bottom line, Hanson got Sandoval out and we went on to win the game.
John………..you posting at 12:11am was pretty funny.
July 22nd, 200912:27 am
Right Heath, but better to make predictions AFTER teams are set for the stretch drive. Predicting Philly to go 37-34 — an opinion you’re entitled to — may change WHEN the Phillies do acquire a top starter in the next 10 days.
Other WC contenders are also expected to gear up. Teams could change tremendously in the next week and a half.
July 22nd, 200912:28 am
The Phillies were not the better team in 1993. Unless they had three Hall of Famers on their staff that I forgot about. Plus, that was a Braves team that went 104-58.
July 22nd, 200912:30 am
I’ll ask again tonight.
And again, not trying to be a smart a–.
What are the odds now to win the wild card? What are the odds for the division?
70% strikes at Washington – pulled = LOSS
70% strikes vs. San Francisco – stayed with him – SUCCESS. Sorry, that’s a situation blown by “Moylanta” all season long.
If you’ve got a legendary story, start writing the chapters – even little by little. Cox is learning to manage THIS team.
Fred……….do you really believe that Bobby Cox didnt fight hard to have Tom Glavine called up? I seriously doubt that that was a decision that went down as simple as Frank Wren saying “Hey Bobby, our scouts said that Tom Glavine doesnt have it anymore. We have to cut him ok?”……I seriously doubt that Bobby said “Uh…ok”, lol. I’m sure that Frank Wren went to John Schuerholtz and got the ok before he went to Bobby with the bad news.
July 22nd, 200912:33 am
I was not predicting that every one of those teams will have those records and have 90 wins. I was saying the Phillies ONLY have to have that record to get to 90 wins…I happen to think that they will eclipse the 90-win plateau very easily, by the way. I only use 90 wins because that is a pretty typical win number (or better) for division winners and some on here still have high hopes of winning the division.
July 22nd, 200912:34 am
Gotcha Heath – misunderstood — my bad.
I’m not sure if it’s been discussed already, but doesn’t Prado speak Spanish? I know it’s the pros, but I wonder if that’s helped Escobar having a Spanish speaker on the infield with him, his double play partner too, especially a player as seemingly always positive as Prado. Just a thought.
July 22nd, 200912:36 am
For those who want Wren to fire Bobby, that’s not going to happen. Especially during the season. If my thinking is correct Bobby’s contract runs out at the end of this year. So as I see it if the Braves do not make the playoffs Wren, who has made a lot of tough decisions this season will make one more and not resign Bobby.
I am not a Bobby hater, I believe he is a great players manager and that is how he has built a HOF career. Unfortunately for Bobby the way the game is played has changed a lot over the years and he still plays by the same book. He will keep running players out there until some one forces his hand as Wren has done with Schafer, Frenchy and KJ. In a way I am glad that Bobby is still running Norton out there. It is going to force Wren to make another decision for Bobby and DFA Norton to bring back KJ. I think Wren sees that as the season goes along Bobby is going to keep sending Norton out in key PH situations that will hurt the team.
I can’t help to think just how much better a position the Braves would be in if Bobby had made a couple of changes earlier in the season.
I had a typo in the 12:26am posting. I meant to say “being pissed about Tommy Hanson being pulled after the 7th inning against Washington a few weeks ago…..not the Rockies”.
July 22nd, 200912:39 am
TexasBrave………I believe that Bobby signed a 1 year extension before the season began. His contract runs through the end of next year. Frank Wren is just going to have to get rid of Bobby’s guys……….so Bobby will be forced to use the guys who are producing…..AT ALL TIMES, lol.
July 22nd, 200912:40 am
Updated play-off odds for ATL:
East | WC | Play-offs
17.9% 9.0% 26.9%
By the way, for the Phillies:
74.4% 4.9% 79.3%
July 22nd, 200912:43 am
At Paul when did Bobby sign an extension. I have read all season his contract is up at the end of the year, which is why I believe he will retire at the end of the year.
By the way, only the Rockies and Giants have higher odds for winning the WC.
July 22nd, 200912:45 am
So the Braves have DOUBLED their wild-card chances in three days! No turning back now, kids. Almost double digits!
And I honestly, for the life of me, can’t figure out how it’s only a nine percent chance. Guess I don’t understand the math.
Just three games out? Now, just two teams ahead of them, right? And yet according to those odds, they have TWICE AS GOOD a chance of catching a team that never loses and who is already seven games up on them in the loss column.
July 22nd, 200912:46 am
Up 50% in the wild card just from earlier today. What an accurate statistical calculator this must be.
July 22nd, 200912:48 am
Paul I just looked it up and his contract is up at the end of this year.
By the way, the odds appear to be based on predicted 162-game records….which the Braves are predicted to get to 86 wins, the Phils get 94 wins, and the Rockies winning the WC with 90 wins (Braves and Giants tied for 2nd in the WC).
July 22nd, 200912:49 am
What, you’d prefer Coach telling you the season is over in April?
July 22nd, 200912:53 am
Eric from MO
Smoltz, who had a postseason ERA almost a run higher than Maddux while they were in the same rotation? Beckett, who gave up 10 runs in 9 innings in the ALCS last year?
I know you don’t think he’s a bum. There is a misperception that somehow you have to have a power arm to be successful in the postseason. Guys like Maddux, Glavine and, to some extent, Derek Lowe prove that wrong.
Postseason results for players give a very small sample size. If every pitcher threw enough innings, eventually the postseason stats would fall pretty close to their regular season ones. And a lot of the best pitchers strike out a lot of people. But a strikeout counts the same as a groundout or popout.
Beckett had a better record in those 2 ALCS starts (1-0) than Maddux did in two starts in the 1996 WS while giving up only 3 runs in over 15 innings. You can’t hold the rest of the team’s performance against a pitcher. Its their job to field and score runs.
“Yunel Escobar-sponsored web gems on Baseball Tonight” -Karl on ESPN
July 22nd, 200912:54 am
you’d prefer Coach telling you the season is over in April? (STEVE)
but…but…but…coach said we could take it to the bank…
Oh well another sleepless night. I can’t possibly get any sleep until the Braves have a 10% chance at the Wild Card………who can?
July 22nd, 200912:55 am
Beckett had a better record in those 2 ALCS starts (1-0) than Maddux did in two starts in the 1996 WS while giving up only 3 runs in over 15 innings. You can’t hold the rest of the team’s performance against a pitcher. Its their job to field and score runs. (Doug)
good posts Doug.
July 22nd, 200912:59 am
TexasBrave……….I’m looking it up myself and cant seem to find where he signed the extension for next season. If I’m wrong, I’ll admit I’m wrong. But I swear I remember him being extended until the 2010 season. I dont know why I would think that if it didnt happen. I could be wrong.
Maybe David O’Brien could give us the 911 on Bobby Cox’s contract status.
July 22nd, 20091:01 am
Uh. . . Paul that would be the 411. It is not an emergency.
Paul Lentz, Cox is on a one year deal for 2009 as far as I know. He’s made enough statements the past few weeks that more than lead you to believe he’s coming back in 2010. I guess we’ll get some official announcement from the team about his returning in 2010 in the next month or so.
July 22nd, 20091:02 am
Someone sent a YouTube video to me the other day of two ESPN dolts scoffing at the idea that Greg Maddux was one of the top ten pitchers ever. Not THE best, just top ten. And their prime argument: he had a losing postseason W-L record. I guess I’m still a little upset about that. Not trying to pick on you.
“What, you’d prefer Coach telling you the season is over in April?”
Before the internet, I had no idea that there could be Must Win games in July.
July 22nd, 20091:03 am
Paul L., I guess we will never know exactly how the Glavine thing actually went down. But you are probably right about Cox fighting to keep him, and Cox is lower on the organizational totem pole (no pun intended) than other Braves executives. At least the promotion of Hanson is working out well, that’s what really matters.
July 22nd, 20091:04 am
Padres have 37 wins….and they had a 10-game win streak this year. That’s an odd stat.
July 22nd, 20091:05 am
Cox is signed through 2009 for about 3mil. has not resigned for 2010 yet, and this is later than they usually do it. I don’t think that means all that much though;if the Braves do not bomb completely and he wants to come back, he likely will. OK by me if he does.
July 22nd, 20091:07 am
Anyone agree with me about Houston being the scariest team in the Wild Card race for us?
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