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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,826 comments Add your comment
TnBrian
July 14th, 2009
8:44 pm
Joebrave, me to. Though I don’t know about come Friday, but if Yunel is on Slobby’s sh** list, you have to think he’s gone soon. Damn what Wren or anybody else is saying because it’s not like they’re gonna just come out and give hints about a headcase like Yunel and risk him pouting even more knowing he’s almost about to be traded.
Joebrave
July 14th, 2009
8:44 pm
Bravesman, what is wrong with Cheryl Crow in the buff?? Damn dude she could sing me to sleep every night while I rocked her cradle!
EveryDayIsChurchDay
July 14th, 2009
8:44 pm
Joebrave, I don’t think Minnesota will let go of Liriano period. I still don’t like Span as a long term player. It has been said that Boston likes Escobar. I wonder what kind of deal Theo Epstein would put together. He’s pretty creative.
Henry Halloran
July 14th, 2009
8:45 pm
Anyone else find it odd that President Obama was dressed in more casual attire than anyone else on the field?
Vinings Jim
July 14th, 2009
8:45 pm
I feel really old knowing I saw Stan the Man play a lot (fortunately, I remember baseball games from the womb).
Joebrave
July 14th, 2009
8:46 pm
Gotta sneaky feelin Vazquez is gone too, but this will only work if Kotchman goes to Baltimore for G.Sherrill
Meanwhile...conspiracy theory?
July 14th, 2009
8:46 pm
Did MLB attempt to protect Obama from potential embarrassment in the throwing out of the first pitch ceremony? We saw the Obama deliver, but we didn’t see Pujols catch it.
Can anybody out there ever recall such a camera angle being used on the first pitch?
Kurdt Kobain
July 14th, 2009
8:46 pm
Rafael Soriano looks like Pedro Cerrano’s brother.
Its very bad to steal Jobu’s rum… its very bad…
Joebrave
July 14th, 2009
8:47 pm
Maybe then Boston will give up Bard, Bucholz, and Lowrie.
Wayne in Utah
July 14th, 2009
8:47 pm
I am going out for dinner with some folks. I suspect I will be back in time for the first pitch……
Paul Lentz
July 14th, 2009
8:47 pm
Alan……….how can trading Escobar help the Braves “re-sign” Rafael Soriano? Escobar is making $425,000 this year, and slated to make somewhere around $600,000 next year. He isnt eligible for salary arbitration until after the 2010 season.
So again, I ask……..How will trading Escobar free up enough money to re-sign Soriano?
NO MORE BOBBY
July 14th, 2009
8:47 pm
I cant say anything bad about you DOB for at least a week. Major props for the Spiccoli picture.
(Bangs shoe against head – THATS MY SKULL!!!)
TnBrian
July 14th, 2009
8:48 pm
Supes, I wouldn’t waste too much energy getting mad at the AS game. I got over it a few years ago when I finally realized how silly the thing is and just accepted it. It’s like a high school popularity contest.
EveryDayIsChurchDay
July 14th, 2009
8:49 pm
Joebrave, what about Buckholz and Jacoby Elssbury since Atlanta needs hitters, although Ellsbury has limited power, he does have speed.
IlliniBrave
July 14th, 2009
8:49 pm
Buck and McGarver are sooooo damn annoying!
NO MORE BOBBY
July 14th, 2009
8:49 pm
Meanwhile…conspiracy theory? – I said the same thing. That was planned to keep his cool status. I swear if he cared as much for our country as he does for being a cool celebrity things would be better. Ya know?
K with a K
July 14th, 2009
8:49 pm
Does Albert Pujols win the Triple Crown???And what’s up with Fox not showing where the Prez’s pitch went???DOB was it a good pitch?
Paul Lentz
July 14th, 2009
8:49 pm
Kurdt Kobain………..it’s “Joe Voo’s rum”, not “Jobu’s rum”
Green Tea
July 14th, 2009
8:49 pm
Why didn’t Fox show Obama’s pitch from the centerfield camera?? CENSORSHIP!! How far in front of the plate did that pitch bounce?!
Matt
July 14th, 2009
8:50 pm
Joe Brave
Denard Spain? Are you kidding me? Have you even seen the Twins play this year? Talk about all field and no hit outfield. Liriano from a couple of years ago, sure, but not now. Besides, starting pitching ain’t the problem here.
NO MORE BOBBY
July 14th, 2009
8:51 pm
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I’m fine.
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2009
8:51 pm
CHURCH’S LACK OF PRODUCTION
After the trade, I decided to look at each and every game Church played with the Mets this year, and I was astounded at his LACK OF PRODUCTION.
Hmmm…kinda, I guess. He’s been pretty average over the course of his career. Not sure that merits all caps, but let’s continue reading, I’m sure there’s some good points to be made…
Ryan played in 67 games out of a possible 84 games with the Mets (before the trade), including 5 games where he was used only to pinch hit and as a replacement outfielder.
Of those 67 games, Church had RBIs in only 15 games! That’s one or more RBIs in only one out of every 4.6 games.
Ok, never mind. We’re going down the RBI route. Yikes.
Moreover, he had extra base hits in only 13 games (out of 67)! That’s one extra base hit (or more) in one out of every 5.2 games.
Wait, I’ve got a really good stat that quantifies that–wait for it–slugging percentage! Church’s is .365 which, admittedly, is terrible. However, the man that you’re lamenting over, “If OBP is so important why don’t they put it on the scoreboard?” (IOISIWDTPIOTS), has a .358 slugging percentage this year. That’s even terribler. Going to career numbers, which tell us much more about a player than 90 games worth of AB, we see that Church has a .443 SLG, which is pretty decent, and IOISIWDTPIOTS has a .424 SLG. Hence, especially given the fact that Church’s career ISO is 20 points higher that IOISIWDTPIOTS’s, we can conclude that Church does indeed hit for more power than Francoeur. Now let’s see what brilliance you’ll come up with next…
Church only produced 18 multi-hit games (out of 67)! That’s one multi-hit game in every 3.7 games.
Ooh! Ooh! We’ve got a really advanced and newfangled stat for this too…it’s called “batting average.” Maybe you’ve heard of it? I believe Bill James created it a few years back. Anyway, we can “look up” this magical number on the “internet” and find that in 2009, Church is out-batting IOISIWDTPIOTS .274 to .256 this year, and .272 to .267 over the course of their careers. Moving on…
And he was hitless in 25 of those games (out of 67)! That means he was hitless during one full game in every 2.7 games. In other words, Church has been hitless in 37.3% of the Mets games he’s played in this year!
Compared to the plethora of games we’ve seen IOISIWDTPIOTS go hitless and walkless this year, and possibly even contactless. It’s tough to tell through all the suckitude. Anyway, you can “see above” for evidence that this isn’t true.
The result: Only 22 RBIs and 2 home runs over the course of the season. And that’s just one home run in every 33.5 games.
See: slugging percentge.
No wonder Mets manager, Jerry Manuel, was frustrated with Ryan’s lack of production.
In fairness, Jerry Manuel is kind of an idiot.
Can it really be said that Church is a SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE over Jeff Francoeur?
Yes, it kind of can. You’ll see a 20-point increase in 2009 wOBA and a 30-point increase in career wOBA. Whether the players in question are good or not (they’re not) isn’t really the point–that’s a big upgrade. Consider that Church is actually pretty decent in his career against righties (career .817 OPS which, at the very least, won’t embarass you in RF like IOISIWDTPIOTS’s career .733 OPS and sub-.660 OPS since the beginning of 2008 will), and that, if I recall correctly, Cox plans to platoon him with Diaz, who kills lefties, I’d say that yes, you’ve gone from literally one of the worst corner OF in history to a duo that will provide at least league-average offense.
I would much rather have seen Jeff continue on in the Braves lineup – with a further opportunity to turn things around – based on his two full seasons of 100 plus RBI production and greater power potential (as measured by home runs).
Dear. God. No. If I have to see IOISIWDTPIOTS play one more game in RF and see him go 0-4 with 5 pitches seen I may become a Royals fan, Yuniesky Betancourt or not. And power is not measured by home runs. It is mesured by slugging percentage. And RBI are pretty meaningless as far a telling me “how good is this player?” (Answer: not very)
Or I would have rather seen Jeff used in a greater platoon role with Matt Diaz.
Only if this platoon involves Matt Diaz playing 162 games and Jeff bringing him gatorade when he gets thirsty.
Even last year when Jeff struggled, he had one more RBI than Church had in his BEST SEASON (71 to 70).
What is it with people and RBI? They stink, folks.
Many are now looking at SLUGGING PERCENTAGE as the end all and be all of BASEBALL PRODUCTION STATS – especially when combined with on base percentage (OPS). It’s not. It’s just one indicator.
I don’t even know where to start. So OPS is just one indicator, but RBI isn’t? Logic must be bound-and-gagged in your closet right now.
SLUGGING PERCENTAGE simply measures the ratio of total bases to at bats (total bases/at bats = slugging %).
Which is pretty useful, since one must accrue “total bases” in order to reach home plate, and thus, score.
But what’s important concerning Jeff is that SLUGGING PERCENTAGE DOES NOT DIRECTLY MEASURE RBIs (or runs scored either for that matter). And Jeff has PRODUCED significantly more RBIs than Church.
Let’s play a fun game, called “things that are actually proven to correlate with run scoring,” using all team seasons since 1871 as our data sample. Things that do correlate with run scoring: batting average (correlation: .828). OBP (.866). SLG (.890). OPS (.922). And then there is such witchcraft as EqA, which boasts an even better .928 correlation, with a lower root-mean-square-error than any of the listed stats. Dang statheads! [Shakes fist angrily]
It looks too, as if Jeff’s presence has provided a real spark for the Mets. He’s 4 for 9 (a .444 average) with a double and 2 RBIS in his first two games – both Mets victories.
I see that you’ve completely forgotten everything you’ve learned in stats class, are neglecting his BS infield singles, and are completely impervious to the sheer volume of Jeff’s suckitude that we’ve all seen here. Seriouly, bro?
Stats like these could well have made a difference in the Braves heart wrenching loss to the Rockies on Sunday.
Yeah, we were really hurting watching Jeff not do anything of note…
Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated comments, “Atlanta was extremely frustrated by Francoeur’s 1 ½-year struggle, but he brings more personality and a higher upside to Queens.”
I’m sure they’ll elect him Miss Congeniality and throw a big party! (While still losing games)
Agreed!
Uhh….about that…
No, I don’t like Wren’s trade at all – and with the Mets of all teams.
Yeah, why would we want to give them the guy with the single worst on-base percentage of ANY corner outfielder EVER with at least 2,500 PA when they’re determined to play him as often as possible? How dare us!
Because Church ISN’T A SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE – if even an upgrade at all – Wren could have and SHOULD HAVE given Jeff at least the rest of the year to further turn things around! Things were STARTING TO TURN for him!
Oh. My. God.
Some GMs see the grass as greener on the other side of the fence. I only wish this GM would have stuck with OUR OWN HOME GROWN BRAND of Atlanta “grass” – in spite of some unsightly weeds.
Our “home grown brand of grass” is the worst grass in the history of grass. Worse than that crabgrass we got from New York. That bad.
Omar knew what he was doing. I only wish Frank did!
Omar Minaya once traded Brian Bannister for Ambiorix Burgos, who, aside from having a really cool name, pretty much sucked for New York. He also traded Sizemore, Phillips and Lee for Bartolo Colon (circumstances be damned, he still did it). Oh, and he also traded Ryan Church for Jeff Francoeur that one time.
Great trade Frank!
Now you’ve got it!
(For the record, I think Church kind of sucks and had we traded anything of real consequence for him, or signed him to a contract, I probably wouldn’t have liked it. But people, we just gave the Mets the opportunity to suck more than they already do. I can live with a half of a season of Church for that privelidge any day. The point is that Frncoeur sucks on a monumental scale, whereas Church sucks on an “eh, he’s kinda crappy, but he doesn’t get my ire up one way or the other. He just…is)
Ok, I’m bored. Is this kid pitching for the NL out of high school yet?
Escobar Rocks
July 14th, 2009
8:51 pm
Even I would trade Escobar for Ellsbury and Buccholz….that means it isn’t happening.
Paul Lentz
July 14th, 2009
8:51 pm
NO MORE BOBBY……..I SERIOUSLY doubt that the FOX network, owned by Rupert Murdoch (who also owns Fox News), would do “anything” to save the President “potential” embarrassment. They are “fair and balanced” from the conservative point of view.
NO MORE BOBBY
July 14th, 2009
8:52 pm
If they cover up our Presidents first pitch, imagine the real dirty stuff they keep from us.
A-ville Ranger
July 14th, 2009
8:52 pm
well, there goes the ”no hits” call.
NO MORE BOBBY
July 14th, 2009
8:53 pm
Paul – True but Im sure something with the camera crew was worked out. That was not a mistake camera shot.
Green Tea
July 14th, 2009
8:53 pm
That was a total SNOW JOB!
DOB where was that pitch???
Jack
July 14th, 2009
8:53 pm
If we trade Esco, then i take back everything nice i have said about Wren. It would be colossally stupid to do so. Hey Bobby, learn to work with how he plays the game and evolve to keep one of our best players
MiaBchBravesFan
July 14th, 2009
8:54 pm
If the A’s won’t take Escobar for Holliday and Cabrera straight up, and pay for some of Holliday’s salary, then the A’s can go somewhere else for a sucker trade.
Is there any team out there with an expendable OF power bat and a SS prospect (with a clear mind!) in exchange for Escobar and a Type-B prospect or two?
Paul Lentz
July 14th, 2009
8:54 pm
Linecum has nothing tonight.
Joe Schmoe
July 14th, 2009
8:54 pm
What a stupid idea, trading Escobar?!?!? WTF, they lose a bat to gain a bat… Makes no sense to me… What about you guys? He is about only one of our good hitters besides McCann
18 Wheels of Love
July 14th, 2009
8:55 pm
Terrible angle on that first pitch….announcers said he hit the mit, though, but still, that was lame.
NO MORE BOBBY
July 14th, 2009
8:55 pm
Spiccoli has a bad case of nerves.
JTK
July 14th, 2009
8:55 pm
When is Obama going to be in the booth? I’ll have the mute button ready. What will be the most annoying sound? Obama’s b.s. or the sucking sound coming from Buck and McCarver?
FloridaBrave
July 14th, 2009
8:55 pm
Classic Steve…haha
makes sense to me
July 14th, 2009
8:56 pm
Moylan and Gonzo, both coming off of reconstructive arm surgery, are among the tops in the NL in appearances. Brilliant.
K with a K
July 14th, 2009
8:56 pm
DOB have you noticed the main guys Brian McCann has been paling around with the most??
Billy Bob
July 14th, 2009
8:56 pm
Are we blogging this like a real game? If so, BALLGAME!
Get him out!! He sucks! Giving up two straight baserunners.
Where is Bobby? Pull him NOW!!!!
Did I miss anything?
NO MORE BOBBY
July 14th, 2009
8:56 pm
Hope Linecum brings this kinda stuff to Atlanta next week!!
Vinings Jim
July 14th, 2009
8:56 pm
What an amazing defensive catcher
Billy Bob
July 14th, 2009
8:56 pm
And if not, never mind.
Joe Schmoe
July 14th, 2009
8:56 pm
I never knew Escobar didnt have a “clear mind.” Please expound on that if you have any info that the rest of us dont have.
A-ville Ranger
July 14th, 2009
8:56 pm
Well, there goes the ”no runs” call.
MiaBchBravesFan
July 14th, 2009
8:56 pm
Jack: The only reason Escobar is being traded is because even his own teammates are fed up with him; he’s a DUH! headcase that can’t even get along with Bobby Cox, for crissake. The kid is a blithering moron and a clubhouse cancer!
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
July 14th, 2009
8:57 pm
Sheryl Crow lookin’ good in the white shorts.
To all the ASG haters……..I can still remember the mamouth shot Bo Jackson hit out of Anaheim in (I think…86) against Alltee Hammaker(sp)
Robert
July 14th, 2009
8:57 pm
Lincecum looks horrible like he is just way overhyped and overthrowing – gonna be about 4-0 in a minute
Vinings Jim
July 14th, 2009
8:57 pm
Should be Kotchman there!
Mixxo
July 14th, 2009
8:57 pm
Ballga…..?
muxi87
July 14th, 2009
8:57 pm
good call scorers! E
David O'Brien
July 14th, 2009
8:57 pm
Wow, I’m getting some action here. Just ruled E3, no RBI
McFann :Ô:
July 14th, 2009
8:57 pm
Come on, you guys!
Hey, Mauer looked out to me!
IlliniBrave
July 14th, 2009
8:58 pm
“The Stoner” has not only lost his no-hit appearance but also a shutout. Possible shades of Glavine’s start in 1998 or 1999?
Joebrave
July 14th, 2009
8:58 pm
Okay then,What the hell do you propose, Adrian Gonzalez straight up??? fatass chance that will happen, you get more pitching to move elsewhere…. No one is giving a considerable bat for Escobar..
Mixxo
July 14th, 2009
8:58 pm
Tim’s got a little Medlen in ‘im.
A-ville Ranger
July 14th, 2009
8:59 pm
Delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete.
nolie
July 14th, 2009
8:59 pm
feel really old knowing I saw Stan the Man play a lot (VJ)
just means that you were lucky. a truly great player. one of my all time faves.
Vinings Jim
July 14th, 2009
8:59 pm
Steve from OH – bored?
Soph
July 14th, 2009
8:59 pm
Pschh Mixxo, I’ll say it – BALLGAME.
Ryan
July 14th, 2009
8:59 pm
This is kind of like watching the braves fielding this year.
JoeBrave
July 14th, 2009
9:00 pm
Gotta hope any trade is an upgrade for bat..we need some sock.
Joebrave
July 14th, 2009
9:00 pm
Frank, stop dude you’re giving me wood just thinking about Cheryl in them shorts
Mike Hancho
July 14th, 2009
9:00 pm
Lincecum…straight and over the middle. Plus he needs a haircut.
Jake W.
July 14th, 2009
9:00 pm
MiaBchBravesFan
So you’ve been in the clubhouse? Surely with what you’ve said you have imparted more knowledge on us about Escobar than anyone has told us.
IlliniBrave
July 14th, 2009
9:00 pm
Ryan: not quite – our pitchers actually cover first base.
David O'Brien
July 14th, 2009
9:01 pm
What I said earlier about Lincecum? Nevermind.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
July 14th, 2009
9:01 pm
nolie
When he played…that’s when baseball was a game.
Not that it isn’t now…..just a different feel for the game now.
If that makes sense.
SoWeGa Fanatic
July 14th, 2009
9:01 pm
“did you get to meat the president???????”
Holy Cow, Bravesman! I hope not!
Joebrave
July 14th, 2009
9:01 pm
HMMM will the real Joebrave please stand up!!!Okay believe I will
rharl
July 14th, 2009
9:01 pm
Don’t forget to erase that paragraph when you get a chance.
Other Joe
July 14th, 2009
9:01 pm
Sorry JoeBrave, didn’t mean to steal your name
MiaBchBravesFan
July 14th, 2009
9:01 pm
Jake: start reading the AJC and other Braves’ outlets more carefully.
Joebrave
July 14th, 2009
9:02 pm
DOB, don’t be breathin on Cheryl man, I got plans for her tonite…wink wink
dogsbrekky
July 14th, 2009
9:02 pm
Joe Buck has nothing tonight
Actually Joe Buck sucks every night, can we move Church from RF to the MB
K with a K
July 14th, 2009
9:02 pm
NOt what I thought I’d see from Tiny Tim….Come on NL bats!!!
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
July 14th, 2009
9:02 pm
Joebrave
Too much information, there buddy.
LOL
Dumbfound
July 14th, 2009
9:02 pm
Linecium who ?!! Vazquez wouldn’t given up nothing !!! Damn you Maneul ! Braves will sweep you again for payback for not choosing Soriano !
The_Superhoo
July 14th, 2009
9:02 pm
Man the NL and Lincecum suck!
Leslie CHow
July 14th, 2009
9:02 pm
Hey you Steve from OH you make me shove rusty fok in my eye. You no post encyclopedia here. You crazy and you need not blog anymore on here. I can’t see no more
zmerk13
July 14th, 2009
9:03 pm
It sucks the NL can’t RELEASE LINCECUM!!!!! and TRADE PUJOLS!!!!!! right everyone?
Joebrave
July 14th, 2009
9:03 pm
No Prob dude it’s all good,
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2009
9:03 pm
Steve from OH – bored?
Yep. If anything, I entertained myself, which is all that matters, right?
DOB–Sheryl Crow? C’mon, dude. I mean, she’s hot, but after that…
Poorjeff
July 14th, 2009
9:03 pm
Just say no to Ludwick and Holiday, Braves don’t need either one for the money and 2 months rental. Ludwick out all the time hurt.
The Orioles would be the best team to deal with. Trade Escobar and one other for one of the 4 very good outfielders Scott, Markais, Reinold are A. Jones. Plus SS Tzturis are Andino.
Pretend Hero
July 14th, 2009
9:04 pm
Escobar and a prospect for rental players would be a disaster. Certainly far worse than anything done so far this season. Even in trading Vazquez they need to get more than they gave up, which is questionable at this point.
People need to face the fact that the Braves have had very mixed luck in recent trades. The feeling of always knowing the Braves GM got the better of the deal, and giving him the benefit of the doubt needs to stop. Look at these things for what they are. The Tex deal was horrible. The Renteria Deal was great. The Vasquez deal was ok, but if they dont get anywhere with him in the lineup, and trade him for less than they already gave up, well thats not so great.
Escobar for any sort of rental sucks. Keep trading the guys that Bobby and TP cant coach and you will be left with a bunch of vanilla utility players.
Joebrave
July 14th, 2009
9:04 pm
Yeah guys I know, willieg said Joe Buck sucked real good!!! LMAO
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2009
9:04 pm
At least I entertained FloridaBrave.
[Fist pump]
Paul Lentz
July 14th, 2009
9:05 pm
JTK……………..What about President Bush “sucking up” to the Big Business, the oil industry, the Christian RIght, the banking industry, and defense contractors?
Lew
July 14th, 2009
9:05 pm
K with a K-What’s it matter if he DOES win the Triple Crown? Don’t you realize that since it doesn’t include OBP it’s meaningless?
Ron Roberts
July 14th, 2009
9:05 pm
I haven’t digested so much one-sided poltical nitpickery since I gave up Fox News. Really, folks? You’re presuming some sort of media control over camera angles? Laughable (to those who don’t care about “right vs. left” and the such.
It’s the partisans (of boths sides) that have ruined this country and her political process. It’s a baseball blog (with the occasional music and movie rant). Can you find your right-wing-loving political blog and take your rants elsewhere, please?
Ya don’t like this guy, fine; the last guy sucked monstrously. Give the other folks their chance and quit your childish bickering. It certainly doesn’t make you seem more intelligent.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
July 14th, 2009
9:06 pm
How bout this broadcast team……
Suzy Kolber and Hannah Storm
Other Joe
July 14th, 2009
9:06 pm
Pujols for ESCO! hahaha
IlliniBrave
July 14th, 2009
9:06 pm
Paul Lentz – give it a rest buddy. My God you sound like Obama’s personal protector or something.
Leslie CHow
July 14th, 2009
9:06 pm
Oh yeah well you make my eyes bleed. You son of beetch
Joebrave
July 14th, 2009
9:06 pm
Dammit stop taliking about those inept sonsabitches that are so-called Presidents, ain’t neither one of them can hold Ronald Reagans Jockstrap!!!!
crimedog
July 14th, 2009
9:06 pm
Oh please let’s not talk about politics…
Jack
July 14th, 2009
9:07 pm
“Dammit stop taliking about those inept sonsabitches that are so-called Presidents, ain’t neither one of them can hold Ronald Reagans Jockstrap!!!!”
that is funny. Reagan being a great president. thanks for the laugh. haha
Jake W.
July 14th, 2009
9:07 pm
“Jake: start reading the AJC and other Braves’ outlets more carefully.”
Yeah because I’m sure professional writers have been quoted saying Escobar is a “blithering moron”. And since you know so much I would love to get a link or a quote to an article that has stated that his teammates are fed up with him and that he is a clubhouse cancer. Maybe you should be the one reading more carefully.
Brian
July 14th, 2009
9:07 pm
Atlee Hammaker gave up the grand slam to Fred Lynn. Rick Reuschel gave up the homer to Bo Jackson.
Paul Lentz
July 14th, 2009
9:08 pm
Doesnt look good for the National League.
Mixxo
July 14th, 2009
9:08 pm
No way Hoss catches that ….these days.
No way.