5:24 pm July 14, 2009, by David O'Brien
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
July 14th, 20096:42 pm
I agree that the trade wasn’t *to aquire Church* it was to rid the team of Francoeur….but even so…Church isn’t the answer.
July 14th, 20096:43 pm
Mauer for Medlen …..straight up!
July 14th, 20096:44 pm
I wonder if anybody has a “no errors in the All-Star Game” contract bonus.
If so, you might see someone look up and mouth a bad word at you, DOB.
July 14th, 20096:45 pm
Trading Escobar would be stupid stupid stupid.
I don’t see how Church can be any worse then Frenchy was. Believe me, I’ve tried but I don’t see it.
July 14th, 20096:46 pm
abwright If McCann hits a ball under the second baseman’s glove, you really need to call that a hit. McFann will never let you hear the end of it if you call it an error.
You are sooooo right!
July 14th, 20096:47 pm
Arkansas Braves Fan,
Show me ONE thing that Francoeur (2009 Francoeur) does better than Church. Just ONE thing, using empirical evidence to back it up, and I’ll take whatever you say as doctrine for the rest of my life. Because either a) you can’t do it or b) you really are god.
July 14th, 20096:48 pm
“But an Escobar-Ludwick swap would make a lot of sense for both teams in the off-season.”
FloridaBrave, I would want much more than that for Escobar. Ludwick is a 30 year old, often injured corner outfielder who is a free agent after 2011. Need some prospects added to that, good ones, in my opinion.
July 14th, 20096:49 pm
Frank from KS (now living in CO)…………I think that when Omar Infante comes back, you’ll see a platoon of Omar Infante and Ryan Church playing right field……and Matt Diaz and Garret Anderson playing left field. Since the Braves will face more righties than lefties, Infante will also be able to play second base when Prado needs a day off……..or if Prado needs to play 1st or 3rd when Chipper or Kotchman needs an off day. Infante can even play short if Escobar gets hurt again (Hernandez will be sent down when Infante is activated.
Also, Brooks Conrad can play second as well, and be available to pinch hit. Bobby Cox will have a flexible roster to choose from, depending on pitching match-ups.
Two of the three worst trades John S. made was trading young studs for people who would only be here for a half a year 1/Wainright and Marquis for JD Drew.. I still cant believe that one..everyone knew Drewa would either get hurt or leave for the money 2/the Texiera tde last yr for Andruss, Salty and two good pitchers. Both of those teams are still enjoying their players..our guys are long gone.
Pls Frank Wren, dont give away the farm to get someone for a 1/2 season ,
(p.s. the third worst trade was Jermaine Dye for 2 dogs and a cold beer))
July 14th, 20096:51 pm
DOB unlike others here, I have not corrected you before, but earlier today you wrote “my girl, cabraves fan,” when you obviously meant “Vinings Jim’s girl, cabravesfan…” I’m sure you were just typing quickly.
Hey Dave – any talks about Adam Dunn coming to Atlanta? Just wondering if that is still a possibility or not…we reeeally need his bat!
Oh by the way are you on Twitter yet?
July 14th, 20096:52 pm
Esco, Hoss & Kotch for H-Ram! Skrate up yo!
July 14th, 20096:55 pm
“Can it really be said that Church is a SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE over Jeff Francoeur?”
Once the initial excitement of the being the new kid in town weas off on Church, everyone will slowly realize that the Mets and Braves simpl,y traded turds. It just isnt a big deal either way
I like the options created by the return of Omar. I just have a hard time seeing Bobby play it that way. He wants the same lineup day in and day out. I don’t trust Bobby. You know as soon as Kelly The Fraud is ready Bobby will trot him out to 2B every day like he did before. Bobby will figure whatever was ailing The Fraud was holding him back and we’ll see him every day again.
July 14th, 20096:57 pm
You will just have to learn to share
July 14th, 20096:58 pm
I agree, Efrim. I was just talking the base of the deal.
July 14th, 20096:59 pm
So what…….. I’m so sick of the *the Tex trade was horrible* comments. All of the Tex-trade haters would be signing a different tune if the Braves would’ve went to the postseason last year.
Same people probably woud’ve b!tched if the McGriff deal wouldn’t have worked out.
July 14th, 20097:00 pm
Trade ‘em all, I say. I’m tired of people complaining about the guys we have. I want a completely new group of guys that I can get tired of people complaining about.
July 14th, 20097:01 pm
July 14th, 20097:02 pm
A pair of articles on the Heyward/Freeman promotions:
There’s a small scouting report on Luis Sumoza in the 2nd article…
July 14th, 20097:03 pm
cabravesfan – but I already have Tom!
July 14th, 20097:04 pm
For all you Frenchy naysayers,Get a life people,Francoeur was a bum.He was given more than enough chances to be a Major League player here.He did not respond to coaching and resented being sent down last year.Jeff simply put did not adapt to Major League pitching.The pitching staffs around baseball discoverd how to pitch him and he never figured out how to combat that “book”.Francouer is finished in Atlanta and i think he is close to being finished period.The guy he was traded for won’t have to do a lot to make you forget Francouer.
July 14th, 20097:06 pm
I’m sure the Marlins are dying to trade one of the five best position players in the game (and an affordable one at that) for a rookie pitcher and a shortstop with a questionable attitude.
It would take both of those guys together and Heyward. And that still might not be enough. So forget about Hanley in Atlanta. Doug
Do you know how ridiculous that is? If we (completely hypothetical) were to package Heyward and Hanson together, even Hanley Ramirez would not be enough. You’re grossly over-estimating his value.
You were right about one thing, though… It’s not gonna happen.
July 14th, 20097:07 pm
Joshhh: no and NO….
NCBravesFan: Some people look at Francoeur and see a Maserati? Have those people been in comas or just away from this continent for the past two years?
July 14th, 20097:08 pm
Francouer was supposed to turn up like Ryan Braun.
PWHjort, Francouer definitely plays better defense than Church. He has a stronger throwing arm and I’m sure significantly more assists. Offensively, that’s another story. Frankly, I don’t think Church will be a Brave beyond this year.
Paul Lentz, I think you may see Infante in LF and Diaz in RF against lefties once Infante returns from the DL. Diaz has some experience in RF, Infante does not.
July 14th, 20097:10 pm
DOB, with the Braves treading water right now and getting ready for 2010 making more sense day after day, has there been any discussions of extending Soriano? It can be argued he has been a first half MVP for the Braves. This team goes nowhere in 2010 without him slamming the door. I know we still have control of Gonzalez, but when healthy Soriano has been lights out for the Braves since he has been here. Just wondering.
Paul Lentz, I also wonder if B. Conrad may see time in the outfield later this year, since he has some power and is a switch hitter. I wouldn’t mind seeing that idea come to fruition.
July 14th, 20097:13 pm
Trade Escobar AND prospects for a couple of two month rentals? Even Wren isn’t that stupid!
July 14th, 20097:14 pm
Steve in DC – Thanks for the laugh. This was great.
blah blah blah blah ALL CAPS ALL CAPS blah blah blah blah ALL CAPS ALL CAPS blah blah blah blah ALL CAPS ALL CAPS blah blah blah blah ALL CAPS ALL CAPS exclamation points exclamation points exclamation points !!!!!!
July 14th, 20097:17 pm
Memorable (and hilarious) line from Bud Selig during his informal chat with the writers this morning at the BBWAA meeting.
He said, “Steroids was a societal problem, not a baseball problem, despite what I often f**king read.”
July 14th, 20097:19 pm
what about this–dump kotchy and get glaus at 22 mill over 2 years to play 1st?
July 14th, 20097:20 pm
That’s memorable, hilarious, and out-and-out bullsh**.
Gotta love Bud Selig.
Kwesi: I answered the same Soriano question earlier on other blog. I don’t think Braves would sign him to an extension before he pitches a full, healthy season. And I don’t think Soriano would be interested in signing for what he’d get now, when he can get a whole lot more as a free agent if he adds about 15-20 saves in the second half.
July 14th, 20097:21 pm
DOB- Are the Braves in big trouble if the Phils land Halladay? Are they even the favorites to get him?
July 14th, 20097:23 pm
i think francoeur and church both have 6 assists
July 14th, 20097:24 pm
Haven’t we seen the tragedy before, if you don’t have the perfect quote, unquote attitude, you will be shipped out of Atlanta. Those days need to end with the piss poor excuse of a team that this organization has fielded over the last 6-7 yrs. With the lack luster performance of the team with supposedly good attitude, Soso good players with good attitudes don’t win championships. Maybe that is why we haven’t won or didn’t win more than one championship. Maybe that lack of ego is the reason we are stuck between losing and mediocrity. This organization has not, will not get out of losing to mediocrisy until something changes in the organization and BC. You can continue to ship players out, you will continue to get the piss poor performance on the field and in the bottom line(fan attendance). No one wants to continue to see the mediocrisy this team is putting out. We are tired of this tragedy and repeated movie line
I see Pedro signed with the Phillies. Is anybody else not as concerned as I am?
July 14th, 20097:25 pm
“Francouer definitely plays better defense than Church. He has a stronger throwing arm and I’m sure significantly more assists. Offensively, that’s another story. Frankly, I don’t think Church will be a Brave beyond this year.”
Stronger throwing arm? Yes. Though not by much as Church has a plus arm. But overall defensively? Hell no. Francoeur is a below average defender despite his plus plus arm. Church is an above average defender.
DOB – great line from Bud – don’t imagine to see that in a lot of places.
July 14th, 20097:26 pm
“I see Pedro signed with the Phillies. Is anybody else not as concerned as I am?”
I think they’d probably be better off letting the kids play than throwing a 37-year old washed up fly-ball pitcher with a big fat 88mph heater out there, but if it helps us win the NL East, I’m all for it.
DOB, Thanks for sharing that comment about Selig. To borrow a line from the esteemed Mr. Lentz, what a moron! I can’t tell you how often I see guys shooting up steroids in the gym locker room. And as a school psychologist working at an alternative school, I frequently have to counsel my students about getting off steroids. Yeah, it’s a societal problem. I think it’s time for grandpa Selig to be put out to pasture.
July 14th, 20097:27 pm
If the Braves trade Escobar to the Cardinals in the offseason they had better be getting Colby Rasmus in return, not Ryan Ludwick who is older and hurt all the time.
The Braves need to keep Escobar…..he is too good to lose just because Bobby doesn’t like him.
I’d say the Phils picking up an extra ace is adverse for the Bravos
I do love the quote, though.
Thanks for sharing, DOB.
July 14th, 20097:30 pm
If Escobar goes to the A’s it better be for Cabrera and their pitcher Anderson (or one of their other top young pitchers/players) – not for 2 rent a players.
The A’s interest may have been leaked to try and get some other as yet unnamed team to up their trade offer for Yunel or it may have been leaked as wishful thinking by the A’s.
I agree Rocks that if Escobar goes to the Cardinals it better be for Rasmus
July 14th, 20097:35 pm
Cardinals aren’t trading Rasmus.
Pedro aint an ace, but he’s a veteran pesence. Good move by the Phillies.
July 14th, 20097:36 pm
Rasmus = Escobar
Escobar >>>>>>> Ludwick
July 14th, 20097:37 pm
“Cardinals aren’t trading Rasmus.”
And the Braves shouldn’t be considering trading Escobar. Good teams keep their good young players.
18 Wheels of Love
July 14th, 20097:39 pm
The only you need to know about the player formally known as #7 is the stat DOB posted a few days ago.
Of all major league players OF ALL TIME with a minimum of 2,500 AB’s, #7 (now #12) has the WORST OB%. Ever. Not last month or even last year. Ever.
the hopes of the braves nation rest in your hands mr. hanson
DOB, you think the braves will even get 20 save opportunities in the second half? i hope so…
July 14th, 20097:40 pm
“Wouldn’t trade Hanson for anyone single player in the majors”
He’s good, but get real. You wouldnt trade Hanson for Pujols straight up, say?
Paul Lentz…you really are clueless. Infante is not going to play RF when he returns from the DL. Yes , he can play OF when needed, but we have plenty of OF’ers barring an injury. Plus, he doesn’t have the arm to play RF.
An infected finger? Really?
July 14th, 20097:41 pm
Could care less what the Phillies do, we have our OWN problems to take care of as in our lack of lumber and worn-out pen.
I would argue that Khalil Greene is the spitting image of Spicoli… more so than Lincecum
July 14th, 20097:42 pm
DOB, are the Braves just frustrated with Escobar so much that they feel they have to trade him. As you stated earlier, his numbers are great. Are there 5 shortstops his age that are even comparable to him. His ceiling is tremendous. The big question I have is when August comes around and Hudson is ready, who is getting bumped from the rotation? Would they consider moving an arm (Vasquez?) or would they just showcase Hudson to move at a later date in the off season? Don’t see the need to mortgage the future for a bat just to try to finish atop the wildcard (division is out of the question) and lose in the first round. We got pitching last offseason, this offseason we attempt to redo the everyday lineup.
July 14th, 20097:43 pm
The only way I would deal Escobar is if we can somehow get a very good SS back in a deal whether with the team that trades for Escobar, or a different team in another trade..
I would like to have Matt Holiday in our outfield, but not at the expense of Escobar.. No way you should give up a very talented player that is still very cheap and is under control for several years to get a player that will be a free agent in a couple of months..
Trade KJ to the Cardinals.. They could use him as a SS seeing as though he was originally a SS.. How about Brandon Jones and Kris Medlen to Oakland for Holiday? Keep Escobar, he will get over his immaturity over time..
Of course Khalil isn’t mowing much of anything these days…
Robert – Pedro aint an ace, but he’s a veteran pesence. Good move by the Phillies.
Good point (and eloquently stated) – I’m sure you would agree that would go for a manager, also.
July 14th, 20097:44 pm
Wasnt Khalil Green a golden spikes winner?????
Front page Headline: “Escobar Trade Brewing?” (Complete with Escobar Photo, no less!)
Then, the following comment after the tease: “Just saying the Braves haven’t talked to them about trading Escobar…”
Classic bait and switch journalism!
Tacky! Very, very tacky!
July 14th, 20097:45 pm
Soriano will kill Frank Wren if he don’t pay him. Fact.
July 14th, 20097:46 pm
Y’all forgive me for “Blue Oinker Cult,” don’t you?
No Medlen was killing in AAA. He hasnt really had a consistent opportunity to show his ace type stuff. This kid is a keaper same with Hanson. 1-2 punch looks good
July 14th, 20097:47 pm
“Good point (and eloquently stated) – I’m sure you would agree that would go for a manager, also”
You lost me – whatdaya mean?
6 years of Kris Medlen > 2 months of Matt Holliday
July 14th, 20097:48 pm
You nailed it at 7:39 pm. That stat is incredible.
July 14th, 20097:49 pm
RHR – you do an excellent job of carrying themes through.
July 14th, 20097:51 pm
Trade KJ to the Cardinals.. They could use him as a SS seeing as though he was originally a SS.. How about Brandon Jones and Kris Medlen to Oakland for Holiday? Keep Escobar, he will get over his immaturity over time.. – BravesfaninWis
This. I’m sure Dave Duncan can straighten out Nervous Nellie….if anyone can.
July 14th, 20097:52 pm
Robert, I was referencing the Halladay potential trade
DOB – do you honestly think Escobar will be dealt?
I mean, just the other day Bowman was all like ohhhh Escobar is going downnnnn Cox hates his guts. Then a week later Bowman was all like whatever bitches, Escobar ain’t getting traded and then you did that Q & A with Wren and he was all like Yunel’s good, we like him (or something) and now its all ohhhhh Escobar’s getting traded all over again. I mean …. WTF? I wanna know what YOU think.
TBF(n)K as Billy
Medlin is good but not in same class as Hanson…solid 3 or 4 guy.
July 14th, 20097:53 pm
Sounds like Selig fell off the wagon. Maybe the folks at the BBWAA (Baby-Backribs With Alcoholics Anonymous) can help. Wonder if they checked his pockets for smuggled baby-backs?
Church a massive upgrade? hilarious!. (Arkansas)
Yeah I had a chuckle at that too, though I do think he is a bit of an upgrade, but massive…nope
“6 years of Kris Medlen > 2 months of Matt Holliday”
I disagree. You can’t just name every young player or prospect on the Braves and say they aren’t worth two months of Matt Holliday because they are under control for six years. If the Braves are within a couple of games of the Phillies on July 31st and can afford it financially, you better believe I am giving up Kris Medlen for him. Just my two cents on that, but Kris Medlen straight up for Matt Holliday, and you would say no?
We’ve got the Clydesdales pulling the beer wagon around the warning track… We’ve got two cops up on top of the roof above left-field in bullet-proof vests with the biggest pairs of field glasses I’ve ever seen, and two more in a tower above right field…. We’ve got the elevators closed down for the time being while the President’s moving around. We’ve got all kinds of stuff going on.
Oh, and a 16-ounce bottle of Bud Light is $8.50.
July 14th, 20097:54 pm
Medlen is ….. Scared To Death people. If he gets over his stage fright, he may be a force to reckon with. Until then, he’s a AAA pitcher hooked on greenies.
July 14th, 20097:55 pm
i can get a 12 pack for that much
Somebody needs to lock Kris in a dark room with MFIKY for 48 hours. He’ll never be nervous again.
July 14th, 20097:56 pm
POTUS in the house. Heard he was going to meet each All-Star. Pretty cool.
With how diligent Frank Wren has building this team since he became GM, I refuse to believe that he would be so “dumb” as to trade Yunel Escobar to Oakland for Matt Holliday and Orlando Cabrera. I just dont see it happening. As I’ve said before, Escobar is a productive hitter who has one more season after this before he is eligible for salary arbitration. That makes him a BIG BARGAIN. There is a good chance, particularly if he is hitting in the 5 or 6 hole next year, that he will hit 20 homers and drive in 90 runs. Now where can we find a shortstop that plays good defense and can hit with that kind of pop for $600,000 (his likely salary next year)?
Next year, the Braves will get key contributions from Jair Jurrgens, Yunel Escobar, and Tommy Hanson…..none of who are eligible for salary arbitration. Nate McLouth and Brian McCann are under contract with VERY FAVORABLE contracts that dont hurt the payroll.
With Gonzalez, Soriano, garret Anderson, and Hudson all eligible for free agency, the Braves will have $24.3 mil (I already subtracted Hudson’s $1 mil buyout) coming off the books. Non tendering Kelly Johnson, Ryan Church, Jeff Bennett, and Peter Moylan would mean and additional $7 mil for a total of at least $31.3 mil to use to either re-sign some of our players…….or……..to go and get better players via free agency or trades.
If the Braves wanted to pick up Hudson’s $13 mil option, then they will HAVE to trade one of their starting pitchers. If the Braves want to spend money via free agency to improve the offense, then keeping Tim Hudson, without trading either Lowe, Vazquez, or Kawakami (there is NO WAY that either Jair Jurrgens or Tommy Hanson get traded).
Just imagine if the Braves didnt have to pay Tim Hudson this year. Just imagine if the Braves had an extra $13 mil RIGHT NOW to potentially use towards getting a big bat? Do any of you doubt that Frank Wren wouldnt have signed a big bat in the off season? That is why that I have reservations about Hudson’s 2010 being picked up. With some productive power bats becoming free agents, I anticipate the Braves going after one of them, provided that they have the money to do it.
“Just my two cents on that, but Kris Medlen straight up for Matt Holliday, and you would say no?”
I’d say NO WAY! I’m sick of trading young, controllable talent for rent-a-player. What happens in September when the Phillies have Pedro, possibly Doc Halladay, and a 10-game lead? We got rid of Medlen for nothin’, that’s what.
Steve from OH
July 14th, 20098:01 pm
Aren’t you like 15 or something though? Not trying to be a d!ck, just curious…
njbraves………….I didnt say that Infante would play “a lot” of right field. However, Omar can hit the lefties. Against righties, I would play Garret Anderson in left and Ryan Church in right. Against lefties, I’d play Matt Diaz in left and Omar Infante in right. Those are match-ups that I like. Nate can man center like he has been.
July 14th, 20098:02 pm
Just get wasted before entering. 8.50 Bud LIGHT!? No way, newp, nawp, uh-uh!
RHR–priceless at 7:55. MFIKY is now my favorite nickname ever.
Forget all this other boring stuff, I’d like to return to the fascinating story of HRH’s shoes. Someone asked her to wear pointy heels, and we know that if that person is a guy that his intentions are not chaste. The interesting part is that she has agreed to do so even though she detests them. Now I can see all kinds of intriguing possibilities arising from this simple little chain of events. I think we need to keep on top of this situation.
July 14th, 20098:03 pm
Who the hell is Chris Rose? And why is he walking around to open up the show? Sigh…Fox….
Steve from OH
17 going on 18 in a month
July 14th, 20098:04 pm
Doesn’t he have a country to run or something?
Illini – healthcare’s a big deal, gotta pay for it somehow.
July 14th, 20098:05 pm
Tom is out of town for a bit…sorry
Two of the three worst trades John S. made was trading young studs for people who would only be here for a half a year (UGASlobber)
It doesn’t help your argument all that much that neither of those guys was here for just half a year., but whatever
Pretty cool, Prez yuckin’ it up in the clubhouse with the fellas.
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