9:05 am July 3, 2009, by Carroll Rogers
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 20096:18 pm
Rob from SC (Please don’t trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
I own the red hat. I kind of like it although I like the blue ones from last year better. My wife loves the red one.
Nevermind, my wife just told me she hates the Red Hat
Nova Scotia Steve
July 3rd, 20096:19 pm
or 6:30…sorry…I’m on a massive time change here…So now we’re screwed…my drier can dry underwear in 10 mins…
July 3rd, 20096:20 pm
Anders, the right play is for the Mets to trade Santana. No sense holding onto him and all that money when you guys are never gonna win it all with him. Trade him to a team with a real shot like the Yankees. Oh, what’s that? You actually want to try to win it all anyway, so you want to keep him? Seems illogical considering the rest of your roster, but, hey, can’t blame someone who’d rather try to win it all rather than settle for being all self-impressed with how well you can flip talent
NO MORE BOBBY
An inside source tells me that Johnson was really put on the DL for suckonitis.
I can’t imagine that they look good at all.
July 3rd, 20096:21 pm
TBF(n)K as Billy
July 3rd, 20096:22 pm
I disagree on the value part, his value wont be any higher than it is now. I dont think Vasquez alone is enough to get Kemp. However, if add Escobar and find a thrid party the dodgers can spin him off to you may have a deal….but if you add esobar to that deal you would need another player in return as that would be too much for kemp.
Roman Gal, that was funny,lol.
Nate and Escobar at the top looks like a good run combination. Middle of the lineup looks like a good run producing combination.
This isn’t a big game like Boston or the Yankees, so hope KK can keep up his recent good work (and hope he isn’t rusty)
CORRECTION: I said Koufax won 4 CY awards in a row; thats untrue. He was 3rd place in 1964 (he was injured part of that year as the arthritis started to affect him). Enjoyed the discussion Jason….. time to run catch you later.
July 3rd, 20096:23 pm
“An inside source tells me that Johnson was really put on the DL for suckonitis.” (NO MORE BOBBY)
Or “out-of-optionsitis” or “rehab-assignmentitis”. But yes…
July 3rd, 20096:24 pm
Braveheart – Not sure where that came from? We used to converse as adults.
BTW- Even with all the Mets problems they’re still one game up on your boys. And your boys have been in their rear view mirror for the last three seasons. You know, while we’re talking about teams with a real shot.
July 3rd, 20096:25 pm
Or “out-of-optionsitis” or “rehab-assignmentitis”. But yes…
July 3rd, 20096:27 pm
A Yunel Escobar would be making a lot more than $400,000 a year if he had gone to Parkwood and Brookwood like Frenchy and McCann.
Whoa whoa whoa! McCann did not go to Brookwood!
Ha ha…very funny. Yeah, you know which post I’m talking about!
Who do you think is the greatest pitcher of all time? Could Koufax have been one of the greatest? I don’t list him because, he only played like 9-10 years.”
Hard to say cause the longevity issue is a valid one. But if you dont take longevity into account, I vote for Koufax. Lets say thats in the last 45-50 years; I have no clue how to rate Cy Young or pitchers in that era, for example.
I think longevity is vastly overrated in GOAT and HOF discussions. I really think you should just look at the top 10 seasons of one’s prime, and determine their worth that way. Too many guys get too much credit or discredited because they piled up counting stats early or late in their careers when they were just average or barely better.
I love VASQUEZ and would hate to see him dealt. Frankly, I think he’s performed the best of the three newbies in the starting rotation to present. Consequently, he has the best market value at present.
But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t trade him for the player that puts this offense into high gear and a high minors replacement. A similar transaction such as RENTERIA for JURRJENS and HERNANDEZ. In this instance, a bat first and pitcher second. But who, that’s the question. We’ve already picked what we want from DETROIT and PITTSBURGH.
Frank Wren’s already said that he’d “evaluate” where the team was at a certain point and decide whether they’d add a bat, which is a nice way of saying, “win, or you’ll get traded.” Perhaps they’re only thinking about trading Vazquez if they feel like the Braves are out of it. Who knows?
Wayne in Utah
July 3rd, 20096:30 pm
I’m back! Let me guess, Frenchy is in the lineup, and Coach and all the other idiots are ready to blow a gasket????
Am I right??
Yunnie hasn’t held one press conference. Hasn’t come out and made disparaging comments about his teammates. Hasn’t had any 911 drama. Yet we still have yahoo’s wanting to turn him into Terrell Owens? But hey…it’s not about race…lol!
Yeah, you know which post I’m talking about! McFann
Well, I have been posting a lot today. Maybe you should remind everyone what I said…
July 3rd, 20096:31 pm
July 3rd, 20096:33 pm
Braveheart, yeah. That’s it.
JJJ and Hanson are part of who and what I like to rebuild with. I honestly believe we can max out on a trade for Vazquez right now, helping for not only this year, but building for a better tomorrow.
I believe that while he may be overwhelmed (like Schafer was), Heyward could come up NOW and not look any more overmatched than Jeff.
You haven’t been paying attention my friend. THIS TEAM NEEDED TWO OF BATS THIS PAST OFFSEASON.
Wren got none. He overloaded on pitching.
You tell me how trading Vazquez (with our surplus of pitching), for a bat that can help out is “rebuilding”.
I’ll be waiting.
Don’t give me the crap that there isn’t a move out there to be made. NOBODY. Not you. Not DOB. Not ANYBODY, other than Wren and the Pirates GM saw the McLouth trade coming.
Do you think that Vazquez will be signed to a long-term contract extension with the Braves anytime soon? If you don’t, why shouldn’t they maximize their payback on him, AND help the team for this year.
I can live with the fact that many people disagree with me (and others) that trading Vazquez is the right move or not.
But PULEEEZ don’t accuse me of wanting to be in a constant rebuild for the sake of bitching.
Again, you haven’t been paying attention. It’s the LACK of the Braves being willing to unload their crap and ACTUALLY rebuild the roster, that has had me bitching.
Whether what Wren does works out in the end or not. He has to be given credit for trying something different. Rather being remembered as the GM who defined the definition of insanity by expecting the same sh!tty players to do differently than they have.
Ah, no you don’t! You ain’t gonna get me to type that!
July 3rd, 20096:34 pm
I actually laughed out loud over on Mark Bradley blog…Bradley second post was in response to someone ripping Francoeur….and went something like this
“Nive touch. Braves Sweep the Phillies. Now lets rip Francoeur”…I don’t know why but I thought it was hilarious
Umm sorry Medlen, Its called a Fo-Hawk. As in fake mo hawk. And their ugly.
I’m constantly amazed at people saying that we shouldn’t trade this guy or we shouldn’t trade that guy. So, you won’t trade Javy for, say..Braun? You make ANY deal you can to improve the team. There are no keepers. Anybody can be dealt.
July 3rd, 20096:35 pm
I had a weeeeird dream about Brian McCann. Little really weird. = /
July 3rd, 20096:36 pm
You ain’t gonna get me to type that! McFann
I just have no idea what you’re talking about. Don’t you think it would be the kind thing to do?
July 3rd, 20096:37 pm
Seems like a quick 1 2 3 inning here for the offense
Well this is starting off awesome…wow…big cheer for Chipper
DHD, why we say we don’t want people traded is because we all have a fear of Vasquez being traded for a rental.
July 3rd, 20096:38 pm
Braveheart, your post to Anders was possibly one of the dumbest, least thought out posts you’ve ever made. Which makes me believe that it’s not you.
Really? You’re comparing Johan’s contract (and how the Mets got him) to the Braves and Vazquez?
For starters, the Mets SIGNED Johan as a free agent to build their rotation around him for the next half decade. So “flipping” him isn’t really an option now, is it?
Vazquez was traded for to eat innings, and be a bridge to when Hudson returned and Hanson arrived. He has 1.5 years left on his contract and is VERY attractive to contending teams (which we are as well – but our offense is flawed), so “flipping” him IS in the best interest of making our tomorrow and today better, as a TEAM.
I’m aware that our rotation more than likely would be weakened by trading him. But if our offense could be significantly upgraded, and the TEAM outcome is better, what’s the problem?
July 3rd, 20096:39 pm
OMG…the fugly Red hats are back
July 3rd, 20096:41 pm
I think we’re doing the classic talking-about-two-different-things-but-are-pretending-we’re-talking-about-the-same-thing thing. I love those…
I don’t wanna know…
“DHD, why we say we don’t want people traded is because we all have a fear of Vasquez being traded for a rental.”
Isn’t that all Vazquez is at this point with 1.5 years left on his contract?
I agree, if Wren trades him for a bat that we would only be guaranteed to have until the end of the year, that would be silly. But he won’t. I have faith in that.
But if the Braves don’t intend on locking Javy up long-term, then at this point…. he’s a rental.
Some people can pull them off….but it has to be not noticeable that you have one…..
these don’t look bad…..some people can pull it off
July 3rd, 20096:42 pm
I like WARREN SPAHN myself. Man could he pitch. Look at his results from 1953 through 1963. He had 20 wins or more every year during that 11 year span, except two, and never lost more than 15 in any one year. Even in the two years he didn’t win 20, he won 18 and 17. His lifetime ERA was 3.09 and the career winning percentage was .597. At the beginning and end of that run he went for a .767 winning percentage each year.
A close second GREG MADDUX. 3.16 career ERA and .610 winning percentage. The greatest in the era of set-up men and closers. And what a thrill to know they were both BRAVES for most of their careers.
July 3rd, 20096:43 pm
Jurrjens4NLCY …then say that. There other players you don’t trade for a rental either. If that’s the point, make the point, not a sweeping generalization of not trading Javy.
I think we’re doing the classic talking-about-two-different-things-but-are-pretending-we’re-talking-about-the-same-thing thing. I love those… McFann
Ok, now you actually lost me.
The “cynic” in me wants to say that the Braves put Kelly on the “disabled list” because they cant afford to play him right now (he simply sucks at the plate), yet they dont want to “risk” another team putting a claim on him if they try to send him to the minors. Putting him on the DL enables them to fill his roster spot by someone who will hopefully help the team right now.
I’m not familiar with Brooks Conrad.
Steve from OH
July 3rd, 20096:44 pm
N8, this ain’t about whether or not Vazquez is the most likely guy to be traded. The question is, why would we trade him if it’s not likely that we’ll improve our club now and in the future? We’re not going to bring back a player that’s going to give equal or greater value for the rest of the season.
July 3rd, 20096:47 pm
Or maybe they want Kelly to take some time off and then go on a rehab assignment and get some good at-bats.
Maybe that’s what FW and Cox’s meeting was about!!
Nick Johnson has the worst mustache ever…but he struck out so its cool
It will be highly amusing to me if Escobar is traded. I love chaos.
Oh yeah? I’ll show you chaos, son. Hush your mouth.
July 3rd, 20096:48 pm
Anders, I want to win it all or at least a division. So do you. Don’t understand then why you think the Braves need to be flipping their best talent like Chipper and Vazquez while you never make the argument that your Mets would be better off flipping some of their talent instead of hanging on to this delusion that things are gonna change up there without a massive course redirection.
You keep chasing and hanging onto ‘06 kinda like how the Braves hung onto 91 to 05 for far too long. What is the plan with the Mets? I don’t get it. They lucked out when the prior regime found Wright and Reyes. They’ve been lucky to have the money to spend on Beltran, Santana, and Wagner/Rodriguez. But where’s the rest of the plan? What’s the long term and short term vision there?
At some point you gotta admit it was a one year wondrous mirage that you squandered away. They should’ve spent the last few years building their farm back up, but instead they’ve patched things up with band aid after band aid that serves little purpose other than to hold together the delusion that you can get ‘06 back.
The argument can be made that the Mets would be better off flipping talent and selling pieces off as much as the Braves should. Just the same, the Mets should just go for it all just like the Braves should just go for it all.
I want to friggin’ win, so do you, so don’t expect me to be impressed if my GM ends up fancying himself a wheeler and dealer who quits on a season by flipping some of our best talent because you wouldn’t be impressed if Minaya did the same although it’s arguable that he should be doing it as much as Wren.
“The question is, why would we trade him if it’s not likely that we’ll improve our club now and in the future? We’re not going to bring back a player that’s going to give equal or greater value for the rest of the season.” Steve
I disagree. I disagree to the point, that I actually believe that if Wren DOES NOT receive that type of value for him, he will hold on to him. I’m confident of it.
I can understand if you think that there isn’t anybody out there that could give “equal” value for THIS YEAR. I’m not sure of that either.
But how can you be so sure that there isn’t equal value for the future in trading Vazquez?
Also, do you really think that his value will be higher in the winter? I don’t. If you do. That’s cool. But I don’t. We can get somebody to overpay for him NOW, and maybe STILL improve our club’s chances this year.
But if we wait until winter, we’d be LUCKY (with his 11.5 salary) to get anything for him in return, imo.
July 3rd, 20096:49 pm
Looks like the Cubbies are getting hot
Can someone give me the live video feed address, I forgot to save it. Thanks!
July 3rd, 20096:50 pm
I agree. I don’t think we will get enough back for Vazquez unless more than a few teams get involved. We need an opposing GM to pull a Schuerholz.
Boog has a man crush on Dunn.
July 3rd, 20096:51 pm
Since when is where you went to high school related to how much you make in the major leagues as a 26 year old? I don’t get it. And it’s Parkview and Brookwood, neither of which did McCann attend.
So now Jus Sayin is championing the cause of Cuban Americans as well? This guy is the man. Not to mention an intellectual force with whom to be reckoned.
July 3rd, 20096:52 pm
How about this as a trade possibility??? Javy and Yunel to the Dodgers for Kemp and Furcal??? Salaries will be close to offsetting. They get a long term SS and short term SP. We get a short term SS and a long term CF’er!
July 3rd, 20096:53 pm
I want no part of Furcal. Him being an As*hole in the offseason was the best thing to happen to us. I would not trade Escobar period. He has more value than Hanley Ramirez because he can field his position.
July 3rd, 20096:54 pm
Oh btw we saw The Hangover today. Hilarious. I recommend it if you have a sense of humor similar to say..Chop Chop, BAS, Bubdylan, Mitchell…..most of the guys on here would like it, I would think.
kinda ironic how many walks KK has allowed given his rep as a control pitcher over there when we signed him.
July 3rd, 20096:55 pm
I hope RSF doesn’t wear one of those stupid hip-hop caps! Those are terrible.
I know that it was TOO MUCH to ask for Bobby Cox to bench Francoeur. It took him long enough to bench Kelly. Francouer continues to have sucky at-bats, both Garrett and Diaz are hitting the ball much better, with power and average………yet Garrett is on the bench.
I could care less about there being a left hander on the mound tonight. I would rather take my chances with Garrett facing a left hander than see Francoeur hit PERIOD.
Looks like Kawakami is going to have to grind it out tonight. He isnt sharp right now.
July 3rd, 20096:56 pm
we sure do know how to make the worst team in the bigs look so good……
miss call by ump … yields a run for the Nats
July 3rd, 20096:57 pm
If he does wear a “hip-hop” cap, it won’t be stupid.
If any SP needs to be traded, its KK. He’s good enough to have some trade value but he is the worst of this staff.
July 3rd, 20096:58 pm
I too would have a hard time forgiving Furcal for screwing us over last winter. Actually, it really isn’t up to us if the Braves trade Escobar or not. I was just throwing out a what if they did scenario.
N8, I don’t agree. I don’t think there are enough clubs out there that A) need him and B) will be able to take on his salary and C) have pieces we’d value and that fit into our future plans. Remeber the package we gave up for Teixeira. How many clubs out there would give us that for Vazquez, or even half of it? Do you think Milwaukee would give us Escobar, Gamel and Lawrie? I don’t. Do you think the Cardinals would give up Colby Rasmus and prospects? I don’t. Sorry, I just don’t see it. And forgive me if I’m not a big fan of Corey Hart.
Facts are, we’re two games out, and Vazquez is a huge reason for that. There isn’t a hitter out there that will give us equivalent value that I’ve seen rumored to be available.
(And Coach, I love how you’re a “Whiteyball” disciple, but still write the Braves off when the Phillies can’t pitch to save their lives. Isn’t good pitching the numero uno tenant of your philosophy? Then how they gonna win? And don’t try to tell me they will, because if you’re a Phillies fan, you’re spewing that same sh!t right out on the Phillies blog. And you want to give them Javier Vazquez? Why?)
I also believe KK is the weakest link
Yeah…this Ump sux. If the ball to Church was a strike (I thought it was low) then that was strike 3 to Dunn. I personally don’t care where they call it as long as they’re consistent. So far, no consistency.
July 3rd, 20096:59 pm
Gonna be a short night for KK at this pace.
Please don’t walk Guzman.
And for McLouth, they traded the Pirates a pinata filled with sh!t, not our best prospects, not our best all around player, not our best pitcher. So N8 explain why we have to trade away our best pitcher to get a good hitter when, first of all, it ain’t necessary, and, second of all, when doing so, would defeat the entire purpose of getting the good hitter? A contender who would want Vazquez would actually want to keep the good hitters that they’d need to contend kinda like how a contender shouldn’t trade away their best pitcher because they need said pitcher to continue the dream of contending. Think it through N8
wow 31 pitches..the pen better be ready to go tonight
That’s 30 pitches for Kawakami in the first inning…..
July 3rd, 20097:00 pm
we are witnessing why we should not trade JV …
“we sure do know how to make the worst team in the bigs look so good……”
Calm down please, the Nats are bad because of their pitching and defense, not because of their offense. When you have in your lineup Dunn, Zimmermann, Guzman, and Johnson you can put up some runs. The question will be will our offense pick on their bad pitching.
Wow…30 pitches in the 1st. That doesn’t bode well for the BP.
Hope Kris Medlen doesn’t come in the game… Red hat, Fo-Hawk. EWW! also if he comes in that mean Kenshin is pitching horribly. So no Medlen tonight please.
does anyone know why the game has already started? i turned on early, or what i thought was early, to see them in the bottom of the first.
July 3rd, 20097:01 pm
Knew I didn’t want Morgan in our Division…
DOB or Carroll mentioned that Kawakami is still getting familiar with the strike zone in the U.S.
Black Like Me
Your opinion is very typical of this race based issue. How did we get from salary comparisons to TO,MJ,Iverson and Manny.Last I checked, they were all making good money and performing well. Salary, class, behavior, attitude are typical responses of white men with no athletic talent who are envious of black guys who make a lot of money and refuse to be “put in their place”. You sound like Woody Harrolson in “White Men Can’t Jump”. I seem to recall that Andruw Jones had a problem in salary arbitration also. I don’t remember the Braves offering him a contract like Frenchie and McCann got. Economics and face of the franchise(white) are real issues here in Atlanta. Stop trying to hide from the truth.
July 3rd, 20097:02 pm
Paul Lentz, I’m not sure the Braves would be in the habit of faking cortisone shots.
July 3rd, 20097:03 pm
I agree with Steve. While I agree with N8 that Vazquez should be shopped for a big bat, I’m skeptical as to how many teams 1)need him 2)can afford him 3)have a bat to give up 4)vazquez would agree to go to.
Let’s go YUNEL
Nice hustle there by McCann. Hopefully this double will get him on track and we can tie the game here.
Atleast get ‘em to 3rd if you don’t drive ‘em in Esco.
Two games in a row…Yunel has played TEAM BASEBALLL…….TEAM BASEBALL..
July 3rd, 20097:04 pm
A B C baseball.
Again YUNEL PLAYING TEAM BASEBALL
A bunt in the 2nd????
Whoo-hoo!! A DOUBLE!! How fun…thought he was gonna get thrown out at second, what with his luck lately…
Do you think the Braves have excess starting pitching? Just curious. You seem be arguing from the point of view that trading Javy would deplete our pitching staff to the point where the returning “big bat” would be moot. Is that correct?
What about when Huddy comes back? I’ve always thought that you deal from a position of strength. If the starting pitching isn’t our strength, what is? If we don’t have one, then we have no business making any deals other than trading for prospects for the future.
Unless of course you think the team will contend as constituted?
July 3rd, 20097:05 pm
braves are not trading for furcal….money and past disgrace by him and his repersentives
I ain’t sayin that he won’t be shopped. I ain’t sayin that he shouldn’t be shopped. I ain’t sayin that he’s not the most likely candidate to be traded. What I am saying is that I don’t think the package is out there right now and it doesn’t make any sense to trade our best pitcher while we’re two games out.
July 3rd, 20097:06 pm
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