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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,596 comments Add your comment
GTSteve
July 3rd, 2009
3:28 pm
Why is Francine in the lineup tonight?
Bigboi
She must have her lucky panties on……lol
Max14
July 3rd, 2009
3:29 pm
If JV is traded for a bat, I would think a third non-contending team would have to be involved. Only way we should trade JV is for a true impact 30+HR guy. What contending teams have a surplus of 30hr guys they would be willing to trade? I can’t think of any. Team A gets JV, Team B gets prospects from team A, Braves get bat from Team B. Team A would have to be willing to add payroll though, and not in the West. Otherwise, I think they should keep JV, and put a band-aid on the OF.
McFann :Ô:
July 3rd, 2009
3:29 pm
Jason–
Hanson looked great with BMac on Sunday!
It must have been that flu bug they had in common.
Haha, yeah…
Coach (2010 or Bust)
July 3rd, 2009
3:29 pm
OK, that’s it. I’m not taking anymore of this garbage from Bobby Cox.
The old man is a f-cking retard. 29 other teams and according to Jason Stark, not one of them has any interest in Frenchy. NOT ONE. And yet, our Brainiac manager keeps running his useless butt out to RF game after game. Cox is a damn moron. The man has his head so far up his ass he couldn’t see daylight with high beams on.
I’m so sick and tired of this crap. Cox is ruining the season with his blind loyalty. Any other manager in any other city would be crucified if he did this to his team by the local sports media. And yet, our Ass kissing friends at the AJC are blissfully silent. beautiful job people, just perfect!
Just you wait until the game starts tonight. I’m gonna rip Cox a brand new butt hole during the game.
Salamander
July 3rd, 2009
3:29 pm
Salamander – It would be worth anything to get automatic out Failcour out of the line-up
That is a good counter point, but I think DeRo was still too expensive all things considered.
I’d ask them to give me a little something off the pile of the cocaine they’re snorting when they agree to that trade. Braveheart
Hahahahaha!
jason
July 3rd, 2009
3:30 pm
Nova Scotia Steve, Dude I see you on here all the time. I was n’t trying to be an ass. Alot of people think that majority ofus want Yunel gone, when in fact we are trying to figure out what exactly has been happening for BC to want him gone. We want Yunel to stay, but if he is being pushed out the door, we are only speculating on what we can get for him.
Chop Chop
July 3rd, 2009
3:30 pm
Yunel and Vazquez to the Indians for Asdrubal Cabrera and Victor Martinez.
That would make some sense. The Braves could chip in some money for Vazquez. Wren could turn around and trade Kotchman…or keep him as a good bench bat/late-inning defensive replacement.
Hawk01
July 3rd, 2009
3:30 pm
Why is Francine / Failcouer in the lineup tonight ?
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
3:31 pm
Salamander
Remember when Francoeur got called up a lot of people made the comment that he was more of an athlete than a baseball player. They might have been right. Not one part of his game has improved. All aspects have gotten worse. His route running is worse now than when he first got called up. He can’t make adjustments at the plate. It could be mental, but he really sucks right now
J Dub
July 3rd, 2009
3:31 pm
“Chef” Tim Dix……is this the Original King of Sports? If so, shouldn’t you be on a Yankee Blog?
Jake W.
July 3rd, 2009
3:31 pm
“I totally agree, but I don’t have a problem with Yunel; BC and some others do. I like Yunel, I don’t want him trade, but he will be. Just a matter of time. If not this season; it will be before next.”
I guess the point that most are trying to make is that for the betterment of the team that both need to find a way to try to get along. Yunel has made some boneheaded plays this year but I do believe he is trying to get better. The guy lived this way all his life, do they really expect him to drop all his bad habits in just 2 years at this level. From reading one of DOB’s earlier post it just sounded like all of this was not on Escobar. There has been a lack of understanding on Bobby’s and some others part too. It just hard for me to take them giving up on this guy so soon when they have been very patient with Frenchy and KJ to the point where I think it has hurt this team. Trading him will only hurt us more. I would question their commitment to winning if they traded him. Esco and the scorers thing was bad, but I think Frenchy’s reaction to being DFA was just as bad. Both were embarassing for the organization.
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
3:32 pm
Chop Chop
That is a interesting idea, but the Indians want young pitching that are cheap. Medlen will not be enough. Martinez, if traded will go to Boston for Buchholz and Lars anderson. That is my guess.
jason
July 3rd, 2009
3:32 pm
The only reason Vazquez may get dealt is cause of Huddy coming back…I don’t think anyone would take Kenshin because of his contract
Nova Scotia Steve, That’s an awfully big IF. I wouldn’t want to take that gamble.
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
3:33 pm
Francouer is only in the line-up everyday with hopes that he can go on a homer binge and give him just enough value to get a wet fart back in return.
Jeff is in there everyday because bobby can’t use him late in pinch hitting situations. Hence, put Diaz and Anderson in, and weaken your bench considerably.
7 out of every 10 wins are won in the last two or three innings. I see why he has stayed with Failcoure I just wish we could get anyone else up here that will help.
We have great outfielders on the farm, problem is their two years away.
Looking at the line-up now Jeffy is the only automatic out besides the pitchers spot. I really think Kotch should bat 7th and Frenchy 9th.
He is luckiest man on the face of the earth. He is playing a game knowing that the Braves can’t get rid of him now.
Epinephrine
July 3rd, 2009
3:33 pm
Coach, your shtick is so tired and trite. Spare us, please. We are on a 4 game winning streak, heading into play the Nats, and all do is get amped up about ripping Bobby Cox’s decision making abilities during the game-which hasn’t even started yet, and following an evening of extremely well-managed baseball. Again, spare us.
kirkinga
July 3rd, 2009
3:34 pm
I’m not buying the whole “attitude” thing. What does that mean exactly? I would like more specifics. Sounds like to me that he could be refusing to kiss Chipper behind or something really stupid like that.
Escobar is not the first player to show disagreement with a call. He sure as heck isn’t the only Brave to have made “bonehead” plays on multiple occasions. So what we’re left with now is the mysterious “attitude” which is probably code for he isn’t going to kiss behind.
jason
July 3rd, 2009
3:35 pm
Jake W, I couldn’t agree more.
Jim
July 3rd, 2009
3:35 pm
If we are stuck with Francouer as Jason Stark said then I think the Braves should send him down to work on his hitting. I am not as willing as some to just get rid of him. He just needs some good coaching and get out of the spotlight for a while. There must be someone in the organization that can work with him and get him back on track.
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
3:35 pm
Jake W.
Great comment on that baby Francoeur. What he did was worse than what Escobar did. Escobar will get better. I think Chipper is the one with the biggest attitude against Escobar. Chipper plays with no life and is not used to a guy with the amount of energy that Escobar’s energy.
nolie
July 3rd, 2009
3:36 pm
And yes, Hernandez is not the answer at SS. I think he would make a great defensive 2B, and a utility player such as Infante. (Jason)
he is not a very good defender anywhere actually. He had a pretty stinky rep in the minors. Pretty much a sub at best at the MLB level
Braveheart
July 3rd, 2009
3:37 pm
The Francoeur thing really is a joke. They don’t bench him, platoon him, disable him, demote him, release him, trade him. They can’t think he’s gonna get better by just getting at bats everyday. Dude is too far gone. At the very least, demote him for road trips, and call him back up for homestands so that the legions of Frenchy 7 tees will come out and spend their money
jason
July 3rd, 2009
3:38 pm
kirkinga, True and that is the problem. Yunel is not showing BC and ‘ol Chipper ( his Elders) the proper respect. I think that has a lot to do with it. It’s not the “Braves Way”.
Had to throw that last one in there.
Nova Scotia Steve
July 3rd, 2009
3:38 pm
Its possible the only way for JV to get dealt to for a player with similar contract $$$$ and most teams that would be willing to make that deal are prolly looking to cut payroll not keep the status quo…So yeah Wren is in a tough situation for sure…
Salamander
July 3rd, 2009
3:38 pm
He [Jeff] is luckiest man on the face of the earth. He is playing a game knowing that the Braves can’t get rid of him now
Reality can be a total bummer. They could at least send his ass to the minors and put up a scarecrow in RF.
TennesseePaul
July 3rd, 2009
3:38 pm
“As good as our pitching has been. The Dodgers have been better”
The Dodgers are also first in the league in bullpen innings pitched. As good as they have been, those arms will be wrags by season end. Joe Torre is wearing them out fast. The Dodgers are getting the third fewest innings per start from their starters in the league. Their second best starter is Randy Wolf. They have been fortunate with the rotation thus far, but methinks defense and a bullpen are helping them out considerably. That and playing against the thunder bats of the NL West (containing three of the bottom four hitting teams in OPS)
J Dub
July 3rd, 2009
3:39 pm
Someone please explain….don’t say it is the $4Mil….What has Francie done to warrant a start over either LOAF or Blanco? I loved the Prado move and like that Diaz is in the lineup tonight but why Francine? He is so painful to watch!! We are in a prime position to reach the top of the division with this weekend series or at least get within a game and we trot that sorry sack out there night in and night out? I am not a bobby basher as so many are but I just can’t for the life of me figure out the motivation here. Two solid years of trash from him and we have other capable replacements. The Prado decision really gave us a spark. Who’s to say that Blanco playing a little right field while he is hot won’t keep us going? JF is a walking rally killer!! HOLY CRAPOLA!!!!
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
3:39 pm
Vazquez for Kemp
TennesseePaul
July 3rd, 2009
3:39 pm
Having said all that, I wouldn’t be too surprised if they clobber the Braves… I just don’t think the Dodgers are as strong as they appear. Or at least, will have the stamina to remain as strong as they appear.
jason
July 3rd, 2009
3:40 pm
Jim
July 3rd, 2009
3:35 pm
If we are stuck with Francouer as Jason Stark said then I think the Braves should send him down to work on his hitting. I am not as willing as some to just get rid of him. He just needs some good coaching and get out of the spotlight for a while. There must be someone in the organization that can work with him and get him back on track.
There is, well sorta. McCann and Chipper’s dads.
TennesseePaul
July 3rd, 2009
3:42 pm
Braveheart: “They don’t bench [Francoeur], platoon him, disable him, demote him, release him, trade him. They can’t think he’s gonna get better by just getting at bats everyday”
No… it’s that lucky underwear of his. Not only does he wear it and the team wins, it also postpones demotions, platoons, the DL and benchings. And it comes out perfectly clean in the wash every time!
jason
July 3rd, 2009
3:43 pm
TennesseePaul, Glad you agree with me. With all the trade JV stuff, I was thinking he would be a fit with LA. Innings eater to take some innings off that BP. We could get a good young OF (Ethier/ Kemp).
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
3:43 pm
Jim – The Braves wil not have Francouer on this team by next year. He will demand to much money in arbitration. You are suggesting we send him to the minors to work on hitting. All he will do is hit .350 off of guys that will be selling insurance in three years. He is done. There is nothing to work on. He was a player that peeked when he was young and simply isn’t good enough to make changes.
jason
July 3rd, 2009
3:44 pm
Baseball Man, I agree Hail to the “Natural”
"Chef" Tim Dix
July 3rd, 2009
3:44 pm
J Dub, why in hell would I be on A YANKEE blog?
3pitch
July 3rd, 2009
3:44 pm
Vazquez to the Brewers in a package that included Alcides Escobar who is ready in AAA, and another quality prospect. Then trade Yunel Escobar to a team that needs a SS for a quality, young corner outfielder that is either in AAA or at the major league level. This would solve both problems and it would give the Braves a young SS with speed, and a corner outfielder with power for the next few years.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
July 3rd, 2009
3:44 pm
Ya know Rob
if they do in deed trade Escobar…..I’m going to be happy because it’ll keep you bitching about Bobby because THAT’S ALL YOU %$#ing do man.
Knock off the Bobby bashing. I’m sick of it.
Jim
July 3rd, 2009
3:46 pm
There is, well sorta. McCann and Chipper’s dads.
Jason,
That is a pretty sad statement. Is it that or is it that Jeff has been uncoachable?
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
July 3rd, 2009
3:46 pm
jason
Hell, if one trip down to minors didn’t do the trick with Francoeur (especially with him crying and acting like a baby because of it)…..another one won’t do the trick either.
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
3:47 pm
The Braves should not send JV to LA. if you do then you give a possible postseason opponent a even better edge over you. Plus JV would be so pissed cause he has always wanted to play in Atlanta. I think the only answer to our solution is trade Gonzo to the Yankees for something like Melky Cabrara.
he isn’t a homerun king but has hit consistantly over his career. plus, he would not be an automatic out.
J Dub
July 3rd, 2009
3:47 pm
If you are who I think you are….that is why I asked if you were “The Original King of Sports”. The Tim Dix I am asking about would know who that was. If you are not the same person, my apologies….
semiballcoach
July 3rd, 2009
3:47 pm
only thing that will help francoeur is a new address in another city…get away from the hometown pressure
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
3:47 pm
Scott Boras Is at it again. He might have Strasburg move to Japan so he can be a free agent. That way he can sign with any team of his choice.
Boras is sleasy, but he does get his clients some mad cash
TennesseePaul
July 3rd, 2009
3:48 pm
Jason: I could see the Dodgers trading Pierre before Kemp or Ethier. He fits the rumored bill: under control for a while. As for Kemp, I could see him pouting if traded. Pouting and flopping. Ethier though would probably do well. He has a good head on his shoulders. But as rare as quality pitching is like Vazquez, I’d want more than Ethier in return.
Tim
July 3rd, 2009
3:48 pm
Does your computer have spell-check? Its spelled “dearth.” Don’t taunt unemployed guys like me by flaunting your inability to spell (not the first time this had happened) AND having a dream job.
Jake W.
July 3rd, 2009
3:49 pm
Rob from SC (Please don’t trade Escobar)
Actually I think Chipper may be in Esco’s corner more so than Bobby’s, I just don’t think he would ever say it publicly because of Bobby. During the winter when they were talking about trading Esco Chipper said on a radio show that he didn’t understand it. Wish I could find the quote, but he didn’t seem happy about. Not for the reasons they were giving. Chipper is a pretty straight forward guy. He wants to win, I would have to think he sees Escobar as someone who would help him win.
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
3:50 pm
jason
If we trade Vazquez to the Dodgers, then it must be for Kemp, we have enough left handed hitters.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
I am not bashing Cox. My point is that Escobar is more important to the future of this team than Cox. Cox is at the end of his career. Escobar is just starting his.
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
3:51 pm
Jake W.
You don’t need to look it up because I remember reading that as well. Chipper. Chipper will always stick up for Cox though, you are right about that.
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
3:51 pm
Esco is going no where folks. i think DOB might have not thought about the closers situation when talking about Braves trading from a position of strength.
Bobby's Cox
July 3rd, 2009
3:52 pm
Rob from SC,
Excellent post at 3:28 (last post on page 5). Agree with everything you said.
Jason,
My stance is the same as yours on Yunel.
Braveheart
July 3rd, 2009
3:52 pm
You know what annoys me the most about Escobar? The uni #. It sucks. #19 just looks lousy on the back of a tee shirt. I’d buy a Yunel tee if he had a single digit uni, or at least a cool looking number. Same goes for Jair. Very shallow and metrosexual of me, but I hate ugly numbers on the back of tees. So, sorry, Chip Caray, the name on the back doesn’t matter as much as the name on the front, but the number on the back does matter.
KC
July 3rd, 2009
3:53 pm
Given that Diaz is swinging a hot bat right now, he should be in the lineup in RF tonight, not Francoeur.
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
3:54 pm
Jake
The point is chipper Jones is at the end of his career. He is still productive, but when this team grows together in the next five years it will be about McCann, Escobar, Heyward, McLouth, Freeman, Jurrjens, Hanson, Medlen. Chipper and Cox are part of the present and past. Age catches up with everyone even the all time greats.
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
3:55 pm
KC – That weakens the bench. I think you will start seeing a lot of Anderson hitting for Failcouer in the 8th or 9th. Then you put Blanco in LF and Diaz in RF for defensive purposes. Jeff starting is the best we can do now. I would rather it come up to someone else than him in a clutch situation late in a game.
Jim
July 3rd, 2009
3:56 pm
Baseball Man- I am not saying Jeff should go to the minors so he can hit .350 off weak pitching. That is not my point at all. Obviously the guy has some very bad habits in his swing that need to be corrected. I just think he could still be a really good player. He is completely lost at the plate right now.
KC
July 3rd, 2009
3:57 pm
Baseball Man, we could trade Mike Gonzalez, but we’d have to get a quality middle reliever to replace him. We don’t need 2 CLOSERS… but we can’t do with one less quality reliever. If we got a very solid 7th/8th inning guy back, then we could afford to deal Gonzo.
But here’s the thing… we’re not going to get a big bat AND a high quality middle reliever for Gonzo, ESPECIALLY given that he is a free agent at year’s end, which certainly affects his trade value.
And there’s no way we’re going to part with Soriano now. Nor should we.
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
3:58 pm
Tell It Like It Is – Please don’t start this crap. The reason there are not alot of African Americans in the majors is that they are all in the NBA or NFL
KC
July 3rd, 2009
3:59 pm
Baseball Man, it’s better to weaken the bench than to weaken the starting lineup. I’m not saying we should necessarily start Diaz every day in Right, because Diaz CLEARLY performs better as a part-time player. But for now, until his bat cools off, you should keep Diaz in the lineup.
jason
July 3rd, 2009
3:59 pm
TennesseePaul, No doubt. Kemp would be the meat of the deal.
Baseball Man, That’s the only thing I don’t like is that LA is a N>L. contender. I also know that JV has longed to play for BC. That’s one of the reasons I am against trading him in the first place. He genuinely wants to be here, and look at what he has done for this team this year.
That is a pretty sad statement. Is it that or is it that Jeff has been uncoachable?
Jim that is a sad statement. Even sadder, I don’t think he is coachable. I think he is to stupid to get anything. He does the term “Dumb Jock” a disservice.
Frank from KS (now living in CO), I don’t recall advocating to send JF down. I just want him gone, as far away from ATL as possible.
I also like Kemp. I just hope JV is not traded, but LA seems to be the only fit in my mind. I posted the bad part of the deal above.
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
4:00 pm
KC – Who you gonna use as a pinch hitter when the pitchers spot comes up late in a game.
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
4:00 pm
Very interested to see how Kenshin Kawakami responds tonight. There has to be a fear factor on the mound. Every pitcher gets hit with a comebacker, but if that ball is a few inches the other way that could have been very ugly. I know that would have scared the hell out of me. Hopefully Kawakami shows no effects of that play.
This is a big game tonight. Players probably didn’t get very much sleep last night. I feel really good about Hanson and Lowe to finish this series up. I think it would be a good idea for Kris Medlen to be prepared to enter this game early. 1/2 season is not enough to know how Kawakmai handles himself tonight. The positive is that we will see his mental makeup tonight.
Braveheart
July 3rd, 2009
4:02 pm
Would Joe Torre even want Vazquez? Javy was pretty bad under the bright lights, big city when Torre last coached him.
I wonder if Vazquez’s value is really all that high? Or do alot of folks think he’s just playing for the right laidback manager in the right laidback town in a huge pitcher’s park?
I don’t see them trading him in the division. He has a no trade to the NL West and AL West. He’s kinda burned his bridges in Chicago. He wasn’t very good in NYC. With his flyball tendencies in the past, he doesn’t seem a good fit for either Texas team. Boston saw him crumble up close when he was in New York, and they don’t really need starting pitching. A few other teams are too young, too cheap, too far out to bother going after him. Who else is left? Milwaukee?
jason
July 3rd, 2009
4:02 pm
Braveheart
July 3rd, 2009
3:52 pm
Love that post…
nolie
July 3rd, 2009
4:03 pm
OK, that’s it. I’m not taking anymore of this garbage from Bobby Cox. (Coach)
Gee that’s too bad coach, I’m sure Bobby will be devastated.
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
4:04 pm
Blanco is not consistant enough. You have to use a consistant contact hitter in a pinch hit situation. Can’t use Ross because he is a second catcher. Can’t risk an injury then Diaz is a backup to him. thnen forced to use Francouer anyway. Anyway you look at, he is best served where he is.
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
4:04 pm
KC
I thought trading Gonzalez was a good idea until I just thought about it. He will be needed to get out Howard, Utley, Ibanez, Delgado during the crucial months of August and September. He should get Type A status so we would get a extra first round draft pick if he leaces for FA. I don’t know why, but I get a gut feeling that he will be easier to sign than Soriano. Could be way wrong, just a feeling.
I would rather sign Soriano. He is a scary looking dude. He looks like he wants to injure someone when he is on the mound. I love it.
jason
July 3rd, 2009
4:05 pm
Braveheart
July 3rd, 2009
4:02 pm
I didn’t think of Torre, Thanks, because that leads me back to my earlier point whinch you have also stated. There is not that many destinationg for JV if he were to be traded. He is all but a Brave for the rest of the season. I feel better now. No, but seriously what Playoff bound team could he pitch for?
Rob from SC (Please don't trade Escobar)
July 3rd, 2009
4:05 pm
nolie
Is it possible to improve your speed if you have a slow bat.
yellerjacket
July 3rd, 2009
4:06 pm
Tell it like it isn’t – Isn’t Garrett Anderson black? Aren’t we all waiting with bated breath for Heyward to make the bigs? Get a grip, you giant d-bag.
It’s been said, and I’ll echo it, that losing Vazquez to get a better OF bat doesn’t show enough return for the investment. You need power pitching in the playoffs. The Braves have shown on this homestand that we can beat the best with what we have (assuming that KJ remains on the bench and Francouer gets subbed for late in games). When Infante comes back, we will have a team that can win the division playing small ball. The homer is not the say all end all. An added bat and the loss of arguably the best starter we have isn’t going to win the world series. Competing for the pennant this year while also setting ourselves up for years to come is the way to go.
Duke
July 3rd, 2009
4:08 pm
yellowjacket, Agreed
KJ+Frenchy=Garbage
July 3rd, 2009
4:08 pm
Boris is nuts and i dont like this Strasburg kid anymore. they want 50 million gaurenteed. if he doesnt sign , he is forced to go into the draft again next year is what i’m reading. But there talking about making the kid a Japan resident so he can play there and make big money….. he’s only pitched at the college level and i dont give a fock if he throws 100mph he aint worth all that money…..
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
4:08 pm
I am just afraid we are stuck with the line-up we have now. Releasing JF will be alot easier decision when Infante comes back. Dude can play anywhere and sticking him in RF would be better than dealing with Jeff “I hate rallies” coeur.
nolie
July 3rd, 2009
4:08 pm
Javy has a no-trade to AL & NL West teams. How exactly would we get Kemp for him?
Chop Chop
July 3rd, 2009
4:08 pm
Braveheart,
The key for Vazquez’s success is to for this team to be out of contention. As long as he doesn’t have big-game pressure on him, he will flourish. I don’t know about you, but I would happily watch this team go 78-84 if it means that we’ll get the most out of Javier Vazquez.
Shamus Thacker
July 3rd, 2009
4:08 pm
Vazquez pitching in a huge pitchers park has nothing to do with his being among NL strikeout leaders.
jason
July 3rd, 2009
4:09 pm
Baseball Man, Just an idea. ATL is carrying 13 pitchers, right? Just send one down, and bring up Sammons. Then you could pinch hit Ross in those crucial situations when you need some power off the bench.
Rob from SC (Please don’t trade Escobar), I am not moving Gonzo or Soriano. They are every bit as valuable as JV. Maybe even more so. They both have been lights out all season. I also think they feed off each other. I bet they have a friendly rivaly going on in the BP as far as closing is concerned.
N8
July 3rd, 2009
4:10 pm
The thing that I think is funny, is that so many people are assuming that Wren is going to “dump” Vazquez.
I suspect if a move is to come, it is going to be not only for a player (or playerS – plural) that can not only help this year, but be a long term answer.
I also assume that Hudson isn’t playing into this thought process (for 2009) AT ALL. Next year? Maybe. But I’m going to asssume that Wren is assuming that ANYTHING he/we get from Hudson this year is bonus.
But, if Wren were to trade Vazquez for 3 or 4 low level (A or AA) prospects, then by all means bitch away. But I suspect, he’s looking for a major league ready RH outfield bat that is under contract for a couple of years, along with a AA or AAA pitcher that could be plugged into the back end of the rotation soon.
It’s not that complicated. Also assuming that KK is going to pitch again this year, the affect on the WHOLE TEAM of having protection for Chipper in the lineup, would give us more chances to win than just having Vazquez and going with what we’ve got.
I’ll explain it again (if this seems pompous, fine by me, but it’s simple math at it’s most basic level):
Vazquez has made 17 starts. The Braves (because of a weak lineup) have gone 7-10 in said starts. He probably has about 17 or 18 starts left. If Wren were to find a servicable 5th starter (bumping Hanson up in the rotation), that could give us even a slightly higher than league average ERA with around 6 innings each night (perhaps Medlen? Perhaps Jo-Jo? Perhaps somebody not on OUR radar?), along with adding a BIG BAT in the lineup. We could STILL play .500 ball in those games that the new 5th starter pitches in (which of course would be a better outcome than going 7-10).
Add to that, said “big bat” could ALSO affect the OTHER games that OTHER PEOPLE start for us.
Bottom line. Javier Vazquez will have the ability/chance to affect the outcome of 17 or 18 more games the rest of the way.
An additional big bat in the lineup, will have the chance to affect 84 more games the rest of the way. Think Fred McGriff.
Don’t give me the Mark Teixeira trade either. That team NEEDED pitching. This team, even without Vazquez has a better rotation, and certainly a better bullpen than that 2007 team did.
Like I said. Simple math.
"Chef" Tim Dix
July 3rd, 2009
4:11 pm
J Dub, I got the reference but why in the hell would I do a YANKEE blog?
Braveheart
July 3rd, 2009
4:11 pm
chop chop The key for Vazquez’s success is to for this team to be out of contention. As long as he doesn’t have big-game pressure on him, he will flourish. I don’t know about you, but I would happily watch this team go 78-84 if it means that we’ll get the most out of Javier Vazquez.
I think I finally learned how to bold and italicize. It only took me four or five months. It’s on now, fellas
jason
July 3rd, 2009
4:12 pm
nolie, Just throwing some teams around that could be a fit. I found out about the N.L. west after we started talking. Don’t matter anyway, I don’t see him being moved. I don’t see a fit. DO you see one anywhere?
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
4:13 pm
Sammons – Three catchers on a roster is not a good idea. if Ross could play an outfield position I would be all for it. Taking away a bullpen arm is stupid. Plus you want a pinch hitter that has some speed. Good Idea, but I don’t like three catchers on a roster.
"Chef" Tim Dix
July 3rd, 2009
4:13 pm
J Dub, drop me a line at GWH.com
KC
July 3rd, 2009
4:15 pm
Baseball Man: “KC – Who you gonna use as a pinch hitter when the pitchers spot comes up late in a game.”
Regardless of who you use off the bench, I’m not going to trade 4 good at-bats for 1 good at-bat. While Diaz is still swinging a hot bat, I’d rather have him out there turning in good AB’s all night. Again, you don’t weaken your lineup in order to strengthen your bench.
jason
July 3rd, 2009
4:15 pm
Baseball Man, I am just saying… If we can’t make a deal for a bat. If we have 13 pitchers on roster now, then we are carrying one to many in the BP. But you are right, Either ross or Sammons would have to be able to play another position.
Wait a minute, don’t McCann have some LF skills?
jason
July 3rd, 2009
4:16 pm
. Again, you don’t weaken your lineup in order to strengthen your bench.
Are we playing baseball in reverse now? Didn’t know…
nolie
July 3rd, 2009
4:17 pm
playing for the right laidback manager in the right laidback town in a huge pitcher’s park? (BH)
the Ted ain’t a huge pitchers park, it plays pretty neutral most years. It is an improvement over some of the parks he has pitched in. If a contender needs starting pitching come the end of July, they are definitely gonna be interested in Javy.His perceived value might be affected more by the financial times than anything else. Most of those type trades bring back prospects though, a bit difficult to imagine a contender who wants Javy being in the position of being able to trade an established thug for him, and 3ways are hard to orchestrate most times. We live in interesting times….which is an old Oriental curse actually.
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
4:18 pm
Jason – when you think of 13 pitchers you really need to think of 7 because 5 are starters. if a starter is hurt while warming up before a game or in the 1st inning, then the bullpen is forced to work the whole game. It is very likely that you will use 5 or 6 of the 7. take one arm away and you could risk ruining a bullpen for a week.
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
4:19 pm
I mean’t 8 sorry, bad math today
Soph
July 3rd, 2009
4:19 pm
Salamander -
Love the idea about the scarecrow patrolling RF in your 3:38.
J Dub
July 3rd, 2009
4:20 pm
I have heard your radio show…..you are a yankee guy….unless you have changed your allegiance….
jason
July 3rd, 2009
4:21 pm
Baseball Man, Gotcha
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
4:22 pm
jason – Your not gonna win close games in situations where Diaz is already playing and it comes to francouer to pinch hit for the pitcher. Again, 8 of every 10 wins are won in the 8th and 9th. You have to HAVE a strong bench.
jason
July 3rd, 2009
4:22 pm
Baseball Man, I always thought they carried 12 on the staff.
J Dub
July 3rd, 2009
4:22 pm
Chef, GWH.com is a china manufacturer directory website…what kind of line am I going to drop?
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
4:23 pm
i was answering a post earlier when someon said drop the 13th pitcher and add a 3rd catcher.
JasonInFL
July 3rd, 2009
4:23 pm
If the Braves could get Kemp in a deal for Javy, they should do it. The guy is going to be a stud and is under team control for a few more years. Of course, that’s assuming Huddy can come back and pitch like Huddy of old…
Coach (2010 or bust)
July 3rd, 2009
4:24 pm
Um, earth to the blog. Javier Vasquez has a NO-TRADE clause in his contract for the entire west coast. HE DOES NOT WANT TO, NOR WILL HE PLAY ON THE WEST COAST, GOT IT PEOPLE?????????????
Shamus Thacker
July 3rd, 2009
4:24 pm
Why the Hell is Frenchy in the lineup?
Been thinking bout making a life-size Frenchy voodoo doll in turkey-drawers. Attach legs to bumper, stretch hamstrings to Macon…
jason
July 3rd, 2009
4:24 pm
Baseball Man, Heck no I know that JF can sit on the bench and be Cheerleader.
Baseball Man
July 3rd, 2009
4:25 pm
Tell It Like It Is – I bet your the same person that was dribbling us with that Imaginarygodstuff yesterday. You can throw all the facts you want out. But African Americans perfer NBA and NFL over baseball. Its a proven fact.
"Chef" Tim Dix
July 3rd, 2009
4:26 pm
J dub, georgiawrestlinghistory.com