2:23 pm June 30, 2009, by David O'Brien
June 30th, 20094:18 pm
any word on mclouth yet?
Ever think Schafer may not be hitting well through the zone because he doesn’t have the “medical help” he used to have?
why are none of my comments showing up?
Steve from OH
June 30th, 20094:19 pm
Seriously? You’ve gotta be new here.
I think frenchy is in the lineup almost every night because it kinda helps to have a gold glove athlete with one of the best arms in baseball patrolling that pasture we call an outfield (one of the most spacious in the majors I might add). You seem to know your stuff which is why that post surprised me. I think we all understand by now he is probably a career 7 hole hitter, and probably not a bad one at that when it is all said and done. Would you rather have a noodle arm in right for 30 more points in average?
18 Wheels of Love
June 30th, 20094:20 pm
Frenchy being unable to take knowledge and turn it into production or being stubborn, as you say, both tell you he is lacking a tool to be an elite player. He may put it all together but he is just one of many to not have that capability. Baseball ain’t easy.
I am not disagreeing when you say kids today expect stuff, it’s just always been that way generation to generation. When you got an Atari, your dad probably thought you would be spoiled and never leave the house….but you did and many others did. I just think a blanket statement like Grace made is not true at all.
I’m not threatened by the Phillies, I’m not thinking about last year. The clearest sign to me that this isn’t the same team that swept us at home last year is Brad Lidge’s multiple blown saves.
They’re not the same Phillies, that’s all there is to it. They’re still in first place but we’ve shown so far that we can beat them.
What I am worried about is Derek Lowe. We can’t have our “ace” going out there and giving it away again.
The key to this series is to set the tone early and let them know it’s not going to be like ‘08.
I just hope to God we’re ready to play and that we don’t let them off the hook.
dogsbrekky (confused and demoralized by '09 baseball)
Are people here seriously comparing the talents of McGreatOne and the worst RF in MLB,
June 30th, 20094:21 pm
1. McLouth CF
2. Escobar SS
3. Jones 3B
4. McCann C
5. Anderson LF
6. Kotchman 1B
7. Francoeur RF
8. Prado 2B
9. Lowe P
June 30th, 20094:22 pm
now if other kids do not learn those lessons then it is the PARENTS fault not the spoiled brat, yes ?
Nature and nurture, dogsb. The parents are of course always responsible for some portion of what their kid is, but if the kid is a brat, chances are he’s gonna have a little brat in him no matter who he was raised by. Parents can only do so much.
Anyone listened to the entire Wilco record yet – that came out today? After the last one I’m hesitant to buy it.
June 30th, 20094:23 pm
Schaeffer has been merely a victim of major league pitching. He needs to really do some homework, or the Braves should trade him for a good outfield hitter, possibly Juan Pierre. The Braves need help now not later.
please send kelly to AAA!!!!!!!!
I think Mark Grace is confusing T-Ball, and all those leagues that start when kids are four and five years old. When we started LL, and I expect when Grace did as well, there was nothing other than LL and you started that at 8 or 9. Everybody that participated got a LL medal but when it came time to play, not everybody got an equal playing time…and today while you’re expected to play everybody, not everybody plays the same amount.
As for getting trophies, sometime during the season a ‘good’ coach will find something to honor every member of the team with a ‘game ball’. What’s wrong with that? What’s wrong with being ‘the most improved’ even though they’ll probably never be as good as the best players on the team?
As for major league ballplayers that come in as prima-donnas, I hardly think they were ever considered LL-ers that were given trophies when they weren’t excelling…certainly Jeff Francoeur always earned what he got…it’s just that he’s no longer the biggest, fastest and most gifted athlete on the field and that’s the problem he, and the rest of those that don’t quite make it as far as they thought, or that their mommas and daddy’s thought, they would.
June 30th, 20094:25 pm
Baseball ain’t easy.
Ya think, LOL? My guess is that much of our neighborhood here missed out on that little factoid. I only wish that reading it in your post could correct the lack.
That lineup tonight is the best team Bobby can put on the field. If that lineup and the pitching we have going doesn’t get it done, then it ain’t gonna get done.
robert(chipper is the bestThese kids today expect their parents to give them money and they don’t think they have to work at all.
wrong. im one of these “kids” and my parents never gave me anything, because i didnt ask. ive been working since middle school.
p.s. usually when an older generation criticizes a younger generation, its the older generation that is to blame. in other words, the kids out there who just want their parents to give them money and dont think they have to work are probably like that because their parents always gave them money and never made them work.
It’s not very often that you hear “Juan Pierre” and “good hitter” in the same sentence unless separated by “not.”
That’s a no go, big guy.
June 30th, 20094:26 pm
You could try turning the laptop off, removing the battery, and then reseating it. Otherwise, it could be the cord, the internal circuitry, or the battery.
June 30th, 20094:27 pm
Schaeffer has been merely a victim of major league pitching. He needs to really do some homework, or the Braves should trade him for a good outfield hitter, possibly Juan Pierre.
Yes. Juan Pierre.
That breezy sound you hear, ladies and gentlemen, is the sound of credibility escaping the room.
Rob from SC
June 30th, 20094:28 pm
Is there a website to check how often Kawakami throws each pitch
I think credibility left a while back…
BL – I suggest you peruse the old http://www.fangraphs.com and see how valuable a fielder that slow dude patrolling said pasture we call the OF is
Hint it is the stat at the bottom of this link
Also refer to the comparison of all MLB RF, where our hero ranks 28/30 after a putrid 2008 ad infinitum
June 30th, 20094:30 pm
dogsb–Frenchy was sixth overall among right fielders in runs saved over 2006-2008 according to the Fielding Bible.
I’m not saying the Braves are a better run organization. The Marlins most certainly are. I’m just saying it isn’t because of leadership. It’s because of young talent.
June 30th, 20094:31 pm
cab, think that might have been one of his buddies, logic. Cause I know that dude bailed, LOL.
June 30th, 20094:32 pm
Prado in over KJ, we might have a chance tonight
“Baseball ain’t easy.”
That’s true, but it’s easier for some than others. I sometimes get the feeling that the game of baseball resembles a college final that some of our players are too stupid, and too drunk and/or high, to study for.
June 30th, 20094:33 pm
9. Lowe P
This can’t be the line up. Is BC senile or what?
CF, 2B, 3B, C, SS, LF, RF, 1B, P. Is is that freakin hard. We scored runs with that line up and with the line up back, BC comes with that crap above.
June 30th, 20094:34 pm
Hey, let’s not get carried away. Pierre is nothing special, but Schafer will be darn lucky if he’s as good as Pierre has been in his career. It’s fashionable to kick Pierre around, but Pierre did a helluva lot better than Schafer in the majors at the age of 22, and he’s had a 10 year career with an AVG over .300 and 450 stolen bases. I wouldn’t trade Schafer for him, but Schafer will be darn lucky if he gets this turned around and has a career half as good or lengthy as Pierre.
June 30th, 20094:35 pm
or an even better judge of value for said RF would be the ranking of ALL MLB RF in 2009 (even those only playing a few games), where he ranks
wait for it..
82 out of 83, 10 spots behind the former Bravo Josh Anderson, bloody sobering reading…………
Patron Saint of the Lost Art
June 30th, 20094:37 pm
Jason…that would be the lineup to go against a left-hander, but tonight is the lefty heavy lineup to battle the right-hander Blanton.
June 30th, 20094:39 pm
My point on Schaefer is that alot of harm was done by BC batting him in the 8 hole. He most likely would have his share of SOs, but not as many has he got. Best spot in the order was in the 2. In front of Chipper. he would have seen a lot better pitches. He would have been pitched totally different. With a runner on, he could have advanced the runner though bunting. He also has the ability to drive the ball in to the gaps.
I love how people quote UZR stats in the middle of the season, although according to the actual guy who invented UZR, looking at a half-season of UZR stats is pointless, and that even looking at a full season’s worth of UZR isn’t all that telling of a player’s true fielding talent. Rather, he suggests looking at a three year sample of UZR data. But folks keep banging on anyway about 70 games worth of UZR info although the inventor of UZR says not to do that.
June 30th, 20094:40 pm
Most RF’s are not career 7 hole hitters that play great defense SO comparing him to other RF’s who are mostly power/HR hitters that play awful defense does me/Braves no good. My point is understanding what we have.
I’m sorry, but I cannot understand why we can’t have Magellan out there navigating the black hole that is the Braves’ RF.
June 30th, 20094:41 pm
I couldn’t agree more. As long as Escobar is batting second, the lineup is wrong. He is not a 2 hitter. He has no speed. He is too good of an RBI man to not be hitting in the middle of the lineup. Think about this. Everytime Yunel hits into a DP, that’s an opportunity taken from Chipper to hit with a runner on base. It’s no wonder Chipper has fewer at bats with RISP than any 3 hole hitter in baseball.
My point on Schaefer is that alot of harm was done by BC batting him in the 8 hole. He most likely would have his share of SOs, but not as many has he got. Best spot in the order was in the 2. In front of Chipper. he would have seen a lot better pitches. (JASON)
DID YOU WATCH THE GAMES? HE WAS BEING SMOKED WITH FASTBALLS! BUT YOU THINK HE WOULD’VE DONE BETTER HITTING IN FRONT OF CHIPPER WHERE HE WOULD HAVE SEEN NOTHING BUT FASTBALLS? LOL
I love how people quote UZR stats in the middle of the season, although according to the actual guy who invented UZR, looking at a half-season of UZR stats is pointless, and that even looking at a full season’s worth of UZR isn’t all that telling of a player’s true fielding talent.
I did read that somewhere a few weeks ago. One of the reasons I’m not as big a fan of UZR rather than the Fielding Bible.
June 30th, 20094:42 pm
Patron Saint of the Lost Art, Point taken, then just flip CK and JF. I don’t care about righty/lefty match ups. I look at who is hitting, and what the team has done together. The biggest problem I have with that lineup is Esco batting second. Esco is at his best with RISP. He should be in a run producing spot. Plus BMac needs the added protection.
June 30th, 20094:43 pm
18 Wheels -
Listening to the new Wilco right now (couldn’t resist picking it up as soon as it came out). It’s good. A much more even effort than Sky Blue Sky and a lot less pointless soloing by Nels. It’s too early to say much more than that (I’m only on listen 1-and-a-half), and I don’t like it as much as I like YHF or SummerTeeth, but I think it’s good. Pretty mellow, but good.
Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
Well, at least Bobby had the good sense to put Prado in the lineup instead of Kelly.
Frenchy needs this kind of bat control….
June 30th, 20094:45 pm
Willy Wally, If you read the posts, I also talked abut him being injured also. If fully healthy, Schaefer was done a disservice batting eighth. I think alot of the SOs came by the fact of the wrist injury that he played almosr 6 weeks with. In truth, he should have DLed the third week of the season.
June 30th, 20094:46 pm
Jason…yeah, you are probably right. But it certainly isn’t senility that is deciding his lineups; whether you like it or not, Bobby has always played the lefty-righty matchup (much to the chagrin of Kelly Johnson)…
RF is the most offensively strong position in the majors. How are you going to compare a guy with as much struggles as jeff has had to the position?
It has been made clear on here about the run support the braves do not have. Think we need every run at the plate thrown out we can.
18 Wheels – listened to the new Wilco once today. I like it alright, but their new albums usually take me a few listens. That being said, I love Sky Blue Sky. They’ve still not put out something that tops the song “Via Chicago”, in my opinion, but they’re still pretty dang awesome.
June 30th, 20094:47 pm
I agree with you. Yunel should be batting 5th permanently. Prado should be in the 2 hole. If Cox wants to flip flop Fancouer and Kotchman .. OK.
Why wouldn’t you take advantage of your best hitter with RISP by batting him 5th instaed of 2nd? The Braves scored 7 runs the only time Cox tried it this year. They now have 3 left sided hitters in a row when the relievers come in. I’m pretty sure (certain) that the Braves haven’t scored 7 runs since (maybe not 7 runs total of all games since).
Steve in NC
June 30th, 20094:48 pm
Rob in SC,
re: your first comment. DOB isn’t a hitting coach, dude.
Grand Slam by Reid Gorecki. Gwinnett scoreds 6 runs in the 8th to tie the game at 7.
BL my response to you got eaten, so ill try again.
citing defense to justify benching yunel and playing francouer is just silly. escobar is an excellent SS, despite is mental lapses this season.
playing someone who cant hit just because they have a good arm is silly, and jeff’s arm in no way justifies his poor offense.
I think we all understand by now he is probably a career 7 hole hitter,
no, i thought most of us by now realized that jeff might not be a good enough hitter to play major league baseball. and its not his average that is a problem, its his horrible on base percentage and his puny slg% that make him so bad offensively.
jeff has alot of work to do, probably in the minors before he will ever be an average MLB player. and i hate to say that, cause i like the guy, but that doesnt make him a good player.
June 30th, 20094:49 pm
Big knock Shafer!
I should have waited. Schafer follows with a HR to take a 8-7 lead.
Patron Saint of the Lost Art, I say go with the righty/lefty matchups, just leave the heart alone. Chipper, McCann, Escobar. Work those matchups around that part of the line up. I have been calling for Escobar to be dropped to 5 or 6 sixth almost all season. He is the most clutch with RISP than anyone. Especially with Chipper getting one AB per month in those situations.
Everytime Yunel hits into a DP, that’s an opportunity taken from Chipper to hit with a runner on base.
Good thing he’s hit into one DP the ENTIRE FREAKIN’ MONTH, huh?
Good grief. The man isn’t a middle-of-the-order bat, he’s a 2 hitter with pop. Try to see the difference.
Schafer! g braves score 7 to take lead in bottom of 8th
June 30th, 20094:50 pm
Hey DOB, what do you think about that horse sh*t going on down at Kansas, Calipari is such a cheater. It just so happens all this comes out after Meeks keeps his name in the draft and gets drafted. Cal has probably had the Henry’s in his back pocket this whole time.
you might be right…think I saw Logic standing by the side of the road this morning holding a “will work for common sense” sign…kinda sad.
June 30th, 20094:51 pm
I should have waited. Schafer follows with a HR to take a 8-7 lead.
But where were his hands when he hit it, LOL?
June 30th, 20094:52 pm
Now the big Braves have something to follow up tonight – what an amazing inning – two outs in the 8th, down 7 – Brandon Jones reached on a misplayed double, and wow.
I do not recall using just said UZR, I was however using the overall value of said OF including hitting and fielding (so part season UZR etc) but I suggest one also add in 2008 and see where our RF stands, it is not pretty, either on offense (almost the worst OF in all of MLB) and a middle of the pack defender (at best) as per the fangraph measures, also on baseball prospectus but thank god for the Fielding
Bible (Steve) because it gives me pause for great hope on the defensive side of the game !
Then again we could mercilessly cut our losses as we have done in the past with has beens and never will be/s……….. oh the joy of it all
ncscoots, In a Braves lineup Escobar is a middle of the order hitter.
June 30th, 20094:53 pm
NorCal, I’m thinking it’s the cord myself. Girlfriend is gonna call comcast and see what’s up. Thanks for the help.
Schafer goes yard
June 30th, 20094:54 pm
I did read that somewhere a few weeks ago. One of the reasons I’m not as big a fan of UZR rather than the Fielding Bible. (STEVE FROM OH)
That’s a really poor justification Steve because they’re using the same data and the reason he says UZR should be examined more in three year samples rather than one year or partial seasons – alot of it is a flawed data issue. At least he admits that flaw. Does Dewan admit the same flaw or pretend +/- to be infallible even though he’s using the same data source as UZR?
June 30th, 20094:55 pm
Unrelated comment to today’s discussion – just a request for your intervention with the print edition of the AJC.
The currentAJC Sports Section displays the MLB Standings along with “Streak” (which is a great piece of info, but only half the info one needs to figure out how a team is doing.) and “Home” (which is an absolutely worthless bit of info – tells me nothing of current value- see Phillies). What’s needed in lieu of “Home” is the info on “Last 10″ games, a stat that virtually every other sports section in the country provides.
If you agree, would you prevail upon the AJC’s Sports Editor to make the change? Thanks.
Steve from OH,
No. He’s not even in the top 10 for 2006-2008. He’s number 4 for the 2005-2007 list. That, of course, was compiled before his abysmal 2008 season. The one that he proceeded with working out like a defensive back and gaining 20 LBS of muscle thinking it was a good idea (why nobody told him it wasn’t is another issue. I mean, somebody needs to be looking over his head. Nobody’s ever mistaken him for a Rhodes Scholar). This caused him to lose all of his bat speed and speed in the field which resulted in a big fat -12 in +/- (good for 30th among Right Fielders. The only players worse were Bobby Abreu and Brad Hawpe. He tied with the then 38 year old Ken Griffey Jr., the then 34 year old Jermaine Dye, and Andre Ethier. Way to go, Frenchy.). And we all know how bad his batting statistics were that year.
Ever since he gained all that muscle before the 2008 season, he’s been a well below average defender. Completely worthless in the field. He is simply not a good defender anymore. I’m making this point because people constantly talk about his contributions in the field. He has a good arm. That’s it. He doesn’t get to nearly as many balls as he used to (or that he needs to), which is much more important when you’re playing the outfield. Such that Matt Diaz is now a defensive upgrade over Jeff Francoeur.
Francoeur has been slightly better this year (his UZR/150 is up from -4.9 to -3.6 and his +/- currently sits at effectively zero), but he’s nowhere near the defender, or player in general, that he was before 2008. He was a halfway decent player with no plate discipline but got by because of his defensive contributions and ability to put the ball in play with authority. Ever since he put on that weight his bat speed has declined such that he can’t put the ball in play with authority and he can’t run well enough to cover the ground necessary to be a plus defender in right.
are we going to get a lineup or is dob going to keep jackin one off
June 30th, 20094:56 pm
Simple Bravos math=4th place, Thank You Washington Nationals! We have 4 guys in our lineup that are worth a damn, but 2 are part timers(Chipper & B. Mc) & 1 is a dumb azz donkey(Escobar) which leaves us with McClouth as the only full time quality regular. Our corner outfielders are a joke & will be outta here after this year, Casey no power K. is just servicable, & we dont know what Infante can do @ second on a full time basis & probably wont cause Bobby will not let him play full time when he comes back. Hate to say it but it definetely is looking like Wait till next year time Again! I would rather lose with Diory than let Escobar play like an idiot, now its rubbed off on KJ! Summary= Pitching-Yes Hitting-No Defense-No 2 When Meatloaf was singin this one he wasnt thinkin bout the Bravos! They are a sad bunch right now
ncscoots – his hands were exactly one.two inches from the third button on his shirt.
June 30th, 20094:57 pm
“A friend gave HUGE kudos to a BBQ joint in Hiram today. It would help if I could remember the name. It was something like “Dan and Paul’s;” I’m certain the Dan part is correct. Anyway, it’s across from Wal Mart, anybody heard of it?”
It’s called Jim & Nick’s, and it is DAMN good food. The Hiram one is literally sitting in what used to be my backyard; I lived on Greenfield Road until I was 6 or 7 (they were just starting to widen 278 when we moved). For some reason Google maps still shows nothing there but dirt, but it’s all built up now, and J&N’s is near the corner.
That little house at the corner of Greenfield and 278 is still there, and ours was next to it. Looking at the Google map, the dirt road after that house used to be our driveway. I took not a few lumps to the forehead learning how to ride my bike on a gravel driveway.
I took another look at Schafer’s HR. His hands were attached to the end of his arms.
ESCOBAR NEEDS TO HIT 5th DAMMITT!!!!!!!!!
Roberto Clemente TWICE led the NL in GIDP. What a bum that Clemente was!!!!
June 30th, 20094:58 pm
I was not justifying benching Yunel to play JF. I just meant in general. Tired of him being the reason we have terrible run support. I think he has been hitting much better as of late including a few right at people, don’t you?
June 30th, 20094:59 pm
It was my understanding that UZR breaks up each player’s position into defensive zones and analyzes a fielder’s performance based on balls fielded in each zone, whereas the Fielding Bible cross-checks each play with other fielders at the same position with similar play opportunities. Are you saying that they get the data for these plays from the same source? I thought the Dewan stat used video…
Remeber when I asked you to clarify UZR for me because I wasn’t familiar with it? I wasn’t kidding, LOL!
While Brandon Jones was batting (down 7-1), Chip Carey said to Brian Jordan, “Now, in a case like this where the game is basically over,” and BJ said, “The game isn’t over yet.”
June 30th, 20095:01 pm
I took another look at Schafer’s HR. His hands were attached to the end of his arms.
In the midst of the carnage, a bright light of humor, LOL. Thanks, man!
I think Schafer is too tense (especially in the hands,arms, and shoulders)at the plate and that muscle tension slows everthing down. It is no different than what happens with a golf swing–a tight grip ruins a golf swing.
BL, the problem with JF and why he catches crap is because he was our RH run producer. You say that he has been hitting well of late, he still ain’t producing no runs. He does absolutely nothing when it is needed.
PWH–I’m looking at the pdf excerpt from Bradbury’s website and it has Francoeur at sixth overall from 2006-08 with 26 runs saved…
Vlad Nunez strikes out the side – Gwinnett wins!
Reason #974 why Chip Carey is a…fill in the blank
June 30th, 20095:02 pm
“Where’s the love for Bono and the boys?”
Died with Zooropa, the corpse was then burned with Popmart, and the latest “installment” scattered the ashes across the many guano piles in sub-saharan Africa
Skeezix, maybe he needs a back massage while in the on deck circle.
Not the side, sorry – only 2.
Dogsbrekky – Welcome back. How was the trek?
June 30th, 20095:03 pm
Did you just curse them?
June 30th, 20095:04 pm
“The man isn’t a middle-of-the-order bat, he’s a 2 hitter with pop. Try to see the difference.”
As opposed to the middle of the order behemoths of Anderson and Kotchman who have combined for less HR than Yunel. I’m not saying he’s a power hitter, but he’s the best hitter with RISP for the Braves this year. Perfect common sense would see him batting behind two guys with .400 OBP.
I’m looking at fieldingbible.com (which should probably correct) and he’s not on the list. He was +24 from 2005-2007. Take away the +11 2005 season and add the -12 2008 season and he’s at +1 for 2006-2008.
June 30th, 20095:06 pm
If you go over to Mark Bradley’s most recent blog, you’ll find a link to a a Mark Bechtel SI feature about Charlie Manuel. If you want a great baseball read, check it out.
Here are Francoeur’s +/- numbers 2005-2009:
2009: 0 (so far)
Your list is incorrect. Or you’re looking at a mislabeled chart. Or something, because Francoeur isn’t in the top 10 for 2006-2008.
You’re looking at +/-. I’m talking about runs saved. But even so the +/- in this has him at -7 for 2008. I’m fairly sure these are correct because there directly out of the Fielding Bible II.
Anyway, who cares? He’s a downright terrible hitter and in all likelihood an average-ish defender.
June 30th, 20095:09 pm
Steve from OH, AMEN, he just freakin SUCKS…
His runs saved numbers 2005-2009:
2009: 0 (So far)
Yo necesito el lineup por favor Senor O’Brien
June 30th, 20095:10 pm
Steve- Frenchy can still throw real well when the oppurtunity presents itself, but I don’t think he scares anyone with his glove or athelticism to run balls down in right field. I think overall your aver-ish remark is fair- fielding wise.
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