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2,669 comments Add your comment
Lamar1Banks2
June 25th, 2009
10:34 am
Doc Holiday
Those numbers just confirm what I already knew. We have the two worst hitters in baseball batting 7&8 every night. Frank Wren has to do something so Bobby will just stop playing these two. At least send Kelly Johnson to the minors.
Flat Bill Kid
June 25th, 2009
10:35 am
Good thing that we took Medlen out, instead of having him face ARoid with bases loaded. Its good to keep his confidence up at this point in the season. IMO. BUT, Bennett should never have came in with bases loaded. Hindsight being what it is, Bennett sucks. Throwing a pitch anyhwere near the strike zone when you have 0-2 or 1-2 count is dumb or shows a lack of control. Get Bennett out of here.
getsomewins
June 25th, 2009
10:37 am
Okay let’s revive the Victor Martinez talk! lol
getsomewins
June 25th, 2009
10:38 am
Flat Bill Kid -
Bennett would have been the one to follow Kawakami if I had to make the move. I would “demote” him to a long reliever and promote Medlen to Bennett’s current spot (whatever it is lol)
Doc Holiday
June 25th, 2009
10:39 am
DAP,
Got to agree with you also. Infante is near, that should be good news. Man but KJ……..Im a KJ basher, but I never bashed his bat. What I really hated was his defense. Know it is all the way around…….. his glove has improved……..not a great glove, but better, at least he might be an average defender right now. I have to admit I never thought he could get so bad offensively.
But as bad as KJ is doing, JF looks worse. At least he has done a great and I mean great job staying away from the down and away pitch. I have seen lots of pitchers trying to finish him with it when he is 0-2 and he now knows it and stays away from it. Good sign. But he has no plate discipline. Right now he looks to me like Orr or Woodward.
I Hate Traffic
June 25th, 2009
10:40 am
What I would like to know is why an army of INS agents wasn’t at the Georgia Dome last night for the soccer game to round up great multitudes of illegals in one big scoop.
I hate EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU who caused a traffic nightmare last night and made many of us miss the first 4 innings of the Yankees-Braves game by backing up I-75 for 2 freaking hours.
Seal the Border, and…
GO, BRAVES !
David O'Brien
June 25th, 2009
10:42 am
DAP, I think it’s more about Bobby playing Kelly in hopes that he can somehow work his way out of this slump, and that’s all it’s about. He said he wanted to give Prado some time to rest, but at the same time, Bobby has said same thing doctors have told Prado — it’s gonna take two months or more of rest for that groin to heal. Two or four days isn’t going to do anything, most likely.
I really think Bobby is just trying to give Kelly every chance to work out of this and get hot, because the team is so much better when Kelly’s playing like he did late last season.
braveUK
June 25th, 2009
10:45 am
How about Francouer for Ian Snell? We get someone else problem and they get further trade options(one of their other outfielders- not Jeff) and a rescue effort for half a season. He may go back to hacking at the ball with LaRoche
varodrunner
June 25th, 2009
10:46 am
OK, last night was a great example of what our most glaring problem is and has been for some time.
Our pitching was good until we got to Bennett. Actually it was GREAT for five innings. Maybe Medlin should have been replaced a little sooner. 10 days between appearances needs to be taken into consideration. O’Flaherty should be used as a lefty specialist, but Bennett and Acosta – OMG.
Hitting was timely and Franceour, as stunned as he might have been , has been hitting. Let’s just hope the HR doesn’t go to his head. He has hadteh right approach at the plate the last few days.
McCann made a bad throw. He was in foul territory and Cano (was it Cano running?) was on the line and was not totally in fair territory. So it was a bad throw by McCann, but we’re going to give him a break. Some errors happen, let’s just say that the running to first was cal;culated and it worked.
The PROBLEM?
Bobby Cox!
Why was Kelly in the game? He’s hitting 219 and Prado is hitting 289! Why bring in Bennett? I think this team is talented – I really do. But are they talented enough to win in spite of COX?
Time will tell, but I’m not optimistic as long as Bobby is here.
BTW, Mr Wren, pick up or bring up some bullpen help. Moylan is coming around nicely. Gonzo and Soriano have been great. Medlin gave us two good innings. O’Flaherty has been good against lefties.
Bennett is an automatic loss if put in with the situation like it was last night. If we haveto keep him, he should be the mop up man and nothing more. Acosta’s place is in Gwinett.
Lamar1Banks2
June 25th, 2009
10:46 am
The truth for Kelly Johnson lovers is that he won’t get any better.
stynes
June 25th, 2009
10:47 am
So I get that this is rude and inaccurate. But man did it make me laugh.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2u9ib2r.jpg
varodrunner
June 25th, 2009
10:49 am
DOB
Just saw your Prado post. Guess that makes sense, but damn, Kelly is in such a funk, it might be hard to pull his head oout of his……..! Any part time help in Gwinett?
Doc Holiday
June 25th, 2009
10:49 am
Lamar1Banks2,
I think Cox wont do anything about it. Those 2 will keep playing until they are traded or dead. KJ will not be sent to the minors, thats out of the question. I do think that when infante gets back he will play half of the games at 2b and KJ will be benched more frequently.
The team is doing much better as a team. I think problems have been isolated and now they have to be solved:
1. JF: has to be at the bottom or near it in production among OF
2. KJ: same as JF
3. Bennett: cant be brought in close games, the best move would be to move him now.
4. GA weakens our defense …..a lot……..but t least his bat has come alive.
5. CK bats has gone cold…………but there is no way he will make an error the rest of his career. OK maybe I overstated.
Other than that……….we are the best team in the division. I can live with points 4 and 5. Bennett must go or only be used in blowouts either way. JF and KJ, we might be able to live or deal with one of them, but not both.
fleming
June 25th, 2009
10:51 am
We need to make a trade with the Yankees. Trade Kotchman for Who, Kelly for What and Chipper for I Don’t Know.
BT
June 25th, 2009
10:54 am
DOB concerning your view of what Bobby is doing with KJ. As a supporter of KJ for 3 years I have to say at this point in the season Gwinnett might be the best place for Kelly to “find” his swing. Whether we deserve it or not, we are in a race for the East and we have to have our best option up at bat.
varodrunner
June 25th, 2009
10:55 am
Actually JoJo is normally ok for an inning or two. When does he come off the DL?
Then Send Bennett to Gwinett
Lamar1Banks2
June 25th, 2009
10:56 am
Doc Holiday
I agree with most of that. I still think Kelly Johnson should be sent down. Frenchy can at least play defense. Kelly is just useless
McFann Ô
June 25th, 2009
10:56 am
Yesterday’s Garfield minus Garfield was perfect for the game…
Steve from OH
June 25th, 2009
10:59 am
Efrim, the Braves have 49,117,000 committed next season before arb salries to Frenchy, Kotchman, Kelly, Diaz, Bennett, Boone Logan, Carlyle, and Moylan.
The 49 MM includes the raises to McCann, McLouth, etc…
PWHjort
June 25th, 2009
11:00 am
Steve, that includes everyone?
Steve from OH
June 25th, 2009
11:01 am
So we can definitely save some money by non-tendering Frenchy and Bennett and Carlyle, and maybe depending on how Moylan responds the rest of the season getting him to sign a club-friendly 2 year extension. Kotchy will stay, and Kelly’s status is still very uncertain. Don’t know about Logan, even if he makes the club his salary will be minimal.
N8
June 25th, 2009
11:03 am
“Now on the other hand I would trade Jeff Francoeur, Kris Medlen, Kelly Johnson and Jo-Jo Reyes for Matt Holiday and we should be able to resign in the offseason with all the money coming off the books. Man Holiday hitting behind Chipper would be awesome!” Jay212033
You mean the Matt Holliday, who this year is batting .269 with 8 HR and 39 RBI, and OBP of .369, while slugging .423, and having an OPS of .790?
Or the one who in 359 career games at Coors Field, has 84 HR, 307 RBI, while batting .357, and OBP of .423, while slugging .645, and an OPS of 1.068?
Or how about the Matt Holliday, who AWAY from Coors field in 409 career games, has only 52 HR, 215 RBI, while batting .278, an OBP of .350, slugging of .450 and an OPS of .800?
If we can convince Bud Selig to let us play our home games at Coors Field, I agree with you. Give up the farm for him. But if that ain’t gonna happen, any prospects at all, would be over-paying for him.
That being said, he would be a FINE addition to our team, and provide Chipper with more protection than anybody other than Mac can provide. But IMO, he’s not THAT BIG of an upgrade considering his “away from Coors Field numbers”, to give up that much for him.
Plus, I think he’s a Boras client, so like Tex, he’d likely be a rental. No chance he stays in Atlanta, and if Wren would pay him enough for him to stay, it would be a huge mistake considering our budget. To NOT offer top dollar for Tex a year earlier and then pay a ransom for Holliday would be silly at best.
DAP
June 25th, 2009
11:05 am
DOB
its just my opinion, but i think that if the decision NOT to start prado at 2nd at least part time isnt health related, its a very bad decision.
thats good info though, thanks for that.
Burdell
June 25th, 2009
11:05 am
So I get that this is rude and inaccurate. But man did it make me laugh. http://i43.tinypic.com/2u9ib2r.jpg
That’s pretty funny, but I agree that it’s inaccurate. Francoeur would never use the word “indefinitely” in everyday conversation.
Steve from OH
June 25th, 2009
11:07 am
That doesn’t include all of our league-minimum guys and Hudson’s 15MM. So add 14MM to that figure and (by my count) about 1-12 400K salaries to get what we’re due to give next season (I’m assuming a non-tender of Francoeur and Diaz getting tendered, etc.). Add 12 league min guys and by my quick calc that’s 4.8 MM. Add 14 MM for Hudson and that is approx 68.8 MM committed before arb raises. These figures of course don’t account for free agents like Soriano and Gonzo. Actually, it’s all here:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p4ew-fwu2XT0dna_BTH5TBw
Renegator
June 25th, 2009
11:08 am
This is an 80 win team at best and its going to take more than 80 wins to win this division. Time to start shopping Gonzalez, Soriano, and possibly Anderson (someone in the AL will take him – he can DH and he is usually hot in the 2nd half).
Cox isn’t going to sit KJ or JF or Bennett so our only hope of a line up without them is if Wren handles it (DFA or trade).
Klaus
June 25th, 2009
11:09 am
Team sport means team comes first and giving KJ all this time to improve is putting the team second.
He is flat out terrible right now and nothing BC can do is going to change it. He needs to go to the minors for a month and hopefully play well enough there that they can trade him at the deadline.
KJ is 27yo and this is likely as good as he is going to get – massive slumps surrounding shorter periods of being hot. All with a leadish glove at 2B.
Sorry but three years is enough.
If you don’t put him in the minors BC will keep using him. Wren needs to intervene.
BTW Victor Martinez (for the poster he mentioned it) would be an amazing addition and we likely have the pieces to get it done.
Kotch is totally wrong for this team especially with a low power OF.
Kotch, Cody Johnson, Medlen, JOJO or a AA arm should get the conference call started.
Robert
June 25th, 2009
11:12 am
“We had one bad pitch with an 0-2 count, a pitch that came back over the plate, and we didn’t cover first – that cost us two runs. Other than that, we played a good game.” (Bobby Cox)”
One translation – “We played well except for the critical mistakes we made”
Second (simpler) translatiojn – “Hee-Haw”
Donkey in the dugout
Jurrjens4NLCY
June 25th, 2009
11:13 am
I have a trade/demote Jeff Bennett campaign in the works. And I swear to God I will launch it if he screws another tied game. I want him demoted, but I don’t want to hurt his feelings. Maybe Jeff Bennett for Kevin Gregg.
Btw, that was a joke. But Kevin to the Cubs pretty much equals what Bennett has done for us.
N8
June 25th, 2009
11:14 am
Welcome back Robert. Was kind of assuming you’d surface after last night.
Burdell
June 25th, 2009
11:14 am
After arby estimates (minus Francoeur and assuming the buyout on Hudson or a Vazquez trade), the Braves have about 73 million in 2010 salary and are in need of: 1) a closer, 2) a setup man, 3) RF, 4) LF/CF, 5) power bench bat.
I don’t want to go through all the scenarios, but one is to keep Hudson + Vazquez and push Kawakami to the pen to fill a slot (84 million) use Canizares as a bench bat (84.4 million), tender Francoeur (88 million), sign a closer ($96 million), then use $2 million for an OF bat (sound familiar? It’s the same team as this year without Gonzalez but with Hudson for a full year)
That highlights why Hudson + Vazquez can’t both be kept. If you’re going to do that, either you’re not getting a closer or you need a cheap power OFer.
Lamar1Banks2
June 25th, 2009
11:15 am
N8
I think your post about Holliday has some valid points. In the earlier trade proposed with the exception of Kris Medlen, I hardly think trading any of those players would be giving up the farm. I do think Holliday will get a nice pay day in the off-season but Jason Bay will set the bar as to what others will command. Bay will most likely re-sign with the Red Sox and it doesn’t appear as though either New York club will inflate the market with an overpriced deal to Holliday.
I do think that Atlanta has every intention in making a reasonable offer to Holliday but the key is to sign him in the off-season, and not to trade for him and to hope the New York teams don’t drive up the market.
Robert
June 25th, 2009
11:15 am
“DAP, I think it’s more about Bobby playing Kelly in hopes that he can somehow work his way out of this slump”
Actually, it’s Bobby being dumb as rocks. He doesnt realize how unlikely it is that KJ will just suddenly all by himself bust out of his season-long slump, and he doesnt have an clue as to what else to try anyway
Dumbest human being ever associated with the game of baseball = Bobby Cox
Steve from OH
June 25th, 2009
11:15 am
And I agree with DAP. Don’t see a team winning 90 games in this division. The Mets are on pace to win 83 games and are playing exactly to their pythag right now. The Phillies are on pace to win 86 games and are also exactly at their pythag. I’d say that as long as we break even during the remaining game with New York and the Boston series, we’re in great shape to pick up some ground with the Phillies coming to town. We’re not playing great but neither are the other teams in our division, and we’ve got the best starting rotation top-to-bottom.
Lew
June 25th, 2009
11:15 am
JoJo Reyes sucks-many have proclaimed this numerous times (ad nauseum). Now it’s Jeff Bennett sucks and JoJo needs to take his place. Life is unchanging on the DOB/MIB Blog. The more things change-well y’all know the rest. Or do you?
N8
June 25th, 2009
11:16 am
Burdell, that was funny. My favorite part is “outer space…..where Darren Daulton lives…”
Priceless.
Robert
June 25th, 2009
11:16 am
“Welcome back Robert. Was kind of assuming you’d surface after last night.”
N8 – what was I gonna say the previous two nights? If your guys pitch four hit shutouts every night, you can win even if Cox manages
Last night was Bobby Cox baseball in every sense of the word – missed opportunities, poor fundamentals, bad decision making regarding the pitching – you saw the entire range of his “skills”
Kudzu Wildcat
June 25th, 2009
11:16 am
I agree that KJ needs to get his act together, so why don’t the Braves send him down to Gwinnett to get his hitting corrected, away from the pressure of the BIGS? They could promote Conrad from Gwinnett while KJ is down working out his hitting problems.
Burdell
June 25th, 2009
11:17 am
Steve, you should probably cite your source for that spreadsheet:
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/atlanta-braves_15.html
Steve from OH
June 25th, 2009
11:17 am
Ahh, here comes Robert to grace us all with his expertise and all that great dialogue that he adds to the conversation. Oh, wait….
getsomewins
June 25th, 2009
11:18 am
DAP -
One thing I can give Bobby Cox that most managers won’t even dare do. He’ll stick with a player even if he’s slumping. He did it when kelly was first called (2 for 30 or something like that) and then Kelly got hot. Same with Francoeur, same with Bennett.
Any other manager would have benched one or released one or all of these players.
So if Bobby grows weary of a player’s failures (like JoJo Reyes), there would be virtually no excuse for the player at that point.
joe
June 25th, 2009
11:19 am
Has Bennett been assigned to chopping ice in Siberia yet?
fastasballs
June 25th, 2009
11:20 am
Is there ever going to a time when the front office starts to demand better from the Braves coaches & manager?
Wren obviously busts his butt trying to fix the needs of the team based on what he has to work with & I think he’s done a fine job. The trades he’s made has been great for the most part. He brings in different players, yet the same poor defense & lack of basic IQ seems to spread through this team like a virus.
A lot of people think major league players wouldn’t have a problem executing basic baseball fundamentals, but the Braves sure do & it’s not just a player or two, it’s the majority of the team.
The Braves will play well for a few games & then revert right back to losing because of poor defense & lack of fundamentals, in addition to very questionable bullpen handling by Cox.
I like Cox, always have, but it’s apparent he’s not getting the job done & hasn’t been for a few seasons. It’s inexcusible to have a team full of players who have mental lapses on a regular basis. It’s not just Escobar either. The majority of the players have had their own issues as well.
How many times do Braves hitters face a guy that’s wild, but still swing at the first pitch regardless of where the location is? RH hitter with a runner on second with no outs & they pull the ball on the first pitch to SS or 3B instead of waiting for a pitch they can hit to the right side. Need to get a guy home from third with less than 2 outs & these guys are swinging for the fences.
It may sound stupid & maybe I’m a little naive, but aren’t these issues very fixable IF practiced & preached by coaches/management? These guys have played ball all their life so it’s not like they don’t know how. The problem is these things are not demanded, if they were execution would be better & the excuses less.
There has been more piss poor situational hitting than I care to remember these past 3-4 seasons. It’s not just Frenchy or this guy or that, it’s the whole team with the exception of a few guys. What’s the common denominator? The players have changed for the most part in the past 4 seasons, but the coaches have not.
I’m not into bashing coaches or managers, but obviously they are not getting the job done. When the team loses more games because of stupidity than they do because they are outplayed there’s a huge problem.
I don’t think the Braves needs another big bat, not at all. A lot of what’s wrong with team would be fixed in a hurry IF it were demanded by the coaches. This team would be leading the NL East right now if it were fundamentally sound & played the best players in the field regardless of who they are. Anyone disagree?
I don’t recall these issues during the run of the 90’s. Maybe they were there, but msked by three HOF pitchers. I think the teams played a lot more sound back then, I really do. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
DAP
June 25th, 2009
11:20 am
steve from oh
hudson’s contract is only $12mil and its an option with a $1mil buyout.
joe
June 25th, 2009
11:21 am
At least we can feel good about Francouers mini “resurgence”. He hit a pitch he was supposed to hit that put is in the lead, and he hit a nice ball up the middle with men on base. Counts for something.
Jurrjens4NLCY
June 25th, 2009
11:21 am
Breaking News!!! – Martin Prado goes on 15 day DL for sore groin. Braves fans wish him a fast recovery while Prado gets high fives from father and male peers. It has also been reported that Hollywood will make a movie about Prado’s journey call, “Venezuelan Pie.”
Sorry if anyone thought it was real. It would been a lot funnier if it came 2 weeks eariler, but I just thought of it.
N8
June 25th, 2009
11:22 am
Lamar1Banks2, I realized that I used the term “prospects” in the post. And I agree, it’s not giving up the farm (the proposed trade). But either way, it’s giving up too much for a guy that likely won’t stay.
All of those guys mentioned in the trade, are at a “low point” in trade value. I think all of them by themselves have higher trade value in the off-season for somebody to take a chance on. It’s just too many people to give up for 2 months of Holliday.
That being said, maybe just the addition by subtraction of ridding ourselves of KJ and Jeff would be worth it.
But in the end, I think Beane would want prospects rather than our crap. Besides, KJ and Jeff are about the polar opposite of what he wants in players. So good luck convincing him to take them off our hands. Like I said. Gonna take some propects to get Holliday. And then a TON of money.
Steve from OH
June 25th, 2009
11:24 am
And for all you folks bashing bringing Bennett it, remeber that DOB has said that Soriano and Moylan were likely unavialable, and Medlen was already out of the game, so that left Bennett, Acosta, O’Flaherty and Gonzo in the ‘pen. Not gonna bring in Gonzo in the sixth, so that leaves Bennett/Acosta/O’F. Facing A-Rod, you’re likely not going to use your LOOGY, so you’re down to Bennett and Acosta. Two very similar pitchers. Million-dollar arms and ten-cent heads. Pick your poison, Bobby.
jj
June 25th, 2009
11:25 am
While we are talking trade,why not trade for an ex Brave that’s playing in Texas.On a limited bases he’s having a pretty good year,hitting HR’S,driving in runs and I truely believe he could play left field.Oh yeah,the Dodgers are paying his salary.Just a thought.
Burdell
June 25th, 2009
11:26 am
What do you think is “fair” for Holliday? If it’s more than the $13.5 million he’s making this year, that Braves can’t afford him without increasing payroll or not signing a closer.
Steve from OH
June 25th, 2009
11:26 am
Oops you are right DAP. So add 11MM to the 49MM to get what Hudson’s impact on the salary would be (his 1MM buyout is figured in the 49MM).
getsomewins
June 25th, 2009
11:26 am
I’m also starting to think Medlen could be a valuable trade piece if Braves are going to obtain a true power hitter.
getsomewins
June 25th, 2009
11:27 am
N8
June 25th, 2009
11:03 am
“Now on the other hand I would trade Jeff Francoeur, Kris Medlen, Kelly Johnson and Jo-Jo Reyes for Matt Holiday and we should be able to resign in the offseason with all the money coming off the books. Man Holiday hitting behind Chipper would be awesome!” Jay212033
Use those players to get Victor Martinez, someone younger and who we might be able to keep.
ncscoots
June 25th, 2009
11:28 am
I don’t recall these issues during the run of the 90’s.
Mostly because there were 20+ guys on the team with veteran experience, and very few young, inexperienced players. Inexperience breeds mistakes…shoot, experience is all about making mistakes, and learning how not to repeat them. The Braves are no longer a veteran-laden team, and sometimes it shows. Nature of the beast.
Want these guys to play better fundamentally, show more IQ, all that? Magically embue them with five years’ experience. Otherwise, suffer the youth (not that most bloggers would, LOL).
getsomewins
June 25th, 2009
11:29 am
That was one good thing from last night…Gonzo and Soriano got to rest
beekay
June 25th, 2009
11:29 am
Last night is the reason Bobby uses Gonzo and Sori when we have 5 run leads….the rest of the pen stinks and could blow any lead up to 10 runs!!
getsomewins
June 25th, 2009
11:30 am
Throw in Kotchman in the deal for VM because he’ll be playing 1B.
N8
June 25th, 2009
11:30 am
Robert, I agree. I’d say that one could give Cox credit for pulling Hanson when he did. But if you look at his gamelogs and pitch-counts, it was PURE pitch count that dictated him coming out. A monkey with a calculator could have made that call.
I used to think you were kind of funny and took it too far at the same time (which I still think), but sadly enough, you are closer to reality than anybody wants to admit.
The man is as stubborn as a mule and just might need an intervention from Wren, who has shown he’s NOT afraid of ruffling some feathers.
I’ve gone from mildly annoyed of Bobby, to flat out wanting him GONE in little to know time. I’ve wanted “change” for some time, just because I prefer somebody that would want guys with defense and speed, and then manage that style of game. It’s what I like. Never been a big HR guy.
But now I think it’s time for him to step down. No matter what the mlb “players poll” says about how many people want to play for him.
Of course they do! I used to like it when my parents would hire the babysitter that let me stay up until 1:00 am watching rated R movies. That was great.
We’ve got two of the worst hitters in baseball, and they can’t play poorly enough to lose their job. We’ve got a reliever that sucks so bad, the manager intentionally walks Tex to get to Arod, JUST to bring Bennet in to face him! Unreal.
Packerman
June 25th, 2009
11:30 am
Our options at 2B in AAA:
J.C. Holt 51 games .265 0hrs 23rbis .667 OPS with 2 errors
Brooks Conrad 66 games .257 9hrs 37rbis .780 OPS with 13 errors
So as you all can see, our options aren’t that great.
Buffalo NY Braves Fan
June 25th, 2009
11:31 am
Steve from OH,
any opinion on the Bruins hosting the Flyers at Fenway on new years? Good idea/bad idea?
Doc Holiday
June 25th, 2009
11:32 am
Braves are 4-3 in their last 7 games.
Braves have scored 4 runs or more in 5 of their last 7 games.
Braves had scored 4 or more runs in only 6 of the previous 14 games in june.
Now jumps the question……..is our offense coming alive?
Steve from OH
June 25th, 2009
11:33 am
Why not, BNYBF? Should get great ratings all along the east coast and a packed house at Fenway. I think it’s a good idea.
N8
June 25th, 2009
11:34 am
getsomewins, totally agree. Just like the McLouth trade. Trade for a good young hitter, with a better approach than KJ and Jeff, who is under control for a few years and on the rise. Not somebody already ready for a big payday.
Those days of trading for McGriff and signing him to a huge extension are over.
Martinez has an option for the 2010 season, so he would be a better choice than Holliday, imo.
That being said, when teams are giving up a player that they control at a reasonable price, they want prospects in return (like the Pirates with McLouth), not over-paid, under-performing guys like Jeff and KJ.
But you’re closer to the right path than the Holliday angle.
Buffalo NY Braves Fan
June 25th, 2009
11:36 am
Steve from OH,
I think it’s a great idea. Makes more sense than the Sabres/Pens game that started it all off. 2 long standing franchises with a deep history going at it again. I think last year with the ‘hawks and wings was also a good idea. Old time hockey from some old time teams.
Maybe they can have part 2 and play an old fashioned parking lot roller hockey game between Anaheim and San Jose for the “night cap” wouldn’t that be sweet?
Lamar1Banks2
June 25th, 2009
11:38 am
N8
I agree with you that a trade is not the way to go. My position is and always will be the when you have a need like we have in the outfield, you have to address that in the off-season instead of trading and still possibly lose the player.
I do think Holliday would work here. I do realize his numbers are down and he is still not the player he was at Coors, but I don’t think a 30-40hr output is needed. If he is a 20-30hr player who hits doubles takes walks and drives in 100rbi then he would be well worth it. His defense is solid and it allows Schafer to play center, Mclouth to play left field and gives time for Heyward to develop. Kotchman’s lack of power doesn’t become so glaring and needed and find a 2nd baseman looking for a new start. Maybe a Felipe Lopez or le Infante be the everyday guy.
Either way the line-up becomes more productive and we have some addition by subtraction.
Steve from OH
June 25th, 2009
11:39 am
It was supposed to be B’s-Sabres? I can see why they shot that down…
I tell you what would be a good one (though maybe not for ratings in the US) would be Leafs-Habs or Leafs-Sens and Flames-Oilers outdoors in Canada. I’d watch that.
N8
June 25th, 2009
11:39 am
scoots I disagree to an extent. There are plenty of young players that come up and perform at a high level. Besides, it’s not just the young guys making the mistakes.
Chipper’s playing bad defense. Load is slow as hell. Bennett is certainly not young anymore.
It’s more about solid guys, that have been coached well.
Like I said, to an extent you are correct. There were always enough veterans around to keep the rookies in line. But are you really going to tell me that with “5 more” years experience Jeff is going to be a good hitter?
He might be. But I’m not willing to wait to find out. Are you?
Roman Gal
June 25th, 2009
11:42 am
The truth for Kelly Johnson lovers is that he won’t get any better.
Well now that we’ve gotten that out in the open, I can move on and live my life. Whew…for a minute there I thought I was gonna keep cheering for him.
Efrim
June 25th, 2009
11:42 am
Steve from OH, yeah, I remember looking at those contracts on Cots. We’ll just have to wait and see though. A trade of Vazquez, nontendering Francoeur, trading Johnson. Tons of factors that could go into it. And of course, the payroll number that Wren has to work with. 96 million again? Not so sure about that. Need to wait and see if that holds up.
David O'Brien
June 25th, 2009
11:43 am
State I gave on Bennett last night was wrong. Yes, he has allowed that many inherited runners to score (7 of 18), but opponents aren’t hitting that high against him with RISP and two outs. I was looking at Medlen’s stats when I hurriedly wrote that line in game story.
Against Bennett, however, opponents have hit .295 with a .468 OBP with runners in scoring position. And in close-and-late situations, he’s allowed a .333 average (9-for-27) with a homer, five walks, two hit batters and a .457 OBP, with two strikeout and four GIDPs.
getsomewins
June 25th, 2009
11:45 am
n8
If Ted Turner was owner, I would think our payroll would probably be around where the Tigers and Mets are (I’m guesstimating $140 million). Boy if FW had that much money to work with, this team would be the best in the NL because he’s not like Brian Cashman (Yankees GM), who just throws the most money at the best players. Unlike Cashman, Frank Wren will sign the players that will help his team win, while still building the farm system, not necessarily the best players on the market.
That’s why Yankees will continue to miss the playoffs. Braves will make it back before they do.
ncscoots
June 25th, 2009
11:48 am
n8, who said anything about Francoeur’s hitting? fastasballs spoke to a lack of fundamentals, good instincts, or whatever. It comes with experience, and I don’t care how well you’ve been “coached”. Young players make mistakes move often than vets, and the Braves have more young players than vets.
Veteran players make mistakes, too, sure…tough being human, ain’t it? They just don’t make as many. Expecting a team such as the Braves to play at a veteran level, without many veterans, is an outsized expectation doomed to be unrealized.
Lamar1Banks2
June 25th, 2009
11:56 am
For those that want Victor Martinez, I urgue you to look at the past only to predict you future.
Victor Martinez is and excellent bat who can switch hit, but his postion is catcher and a below avg 1st baseman. He has also been injured in the past. To aquire him you have to trade pospects to make that happen. On mlbtaderumors just yesterday it was reported the if teams wanted to aquire Cliff Lee that the Indians wanted a Tommy Hanson/Clay Buchholz type deal. I would assume that Victor Martinez package would be the same type deal. Victor Martinez is the eqivalant to Mark Teixeira. A rental who would probably command more on the open market than the Braves are willing to pay to re-sign him. Then Braves fan would be back to saying how we gave up too much to get him.
Also 1st base is not a need. PWHjort make an excellent point yesterday in that aquiring Tex’s didn’t fill a need. The need that yr was starting pitching. There was much ava so JS went and got a bat. I didn’t work and FW had to salvage things and get Kotchman. 1st base isn’t the problem the outfield and 2nd base are.
By getting a bat for the outfield and if Schafer is the player we hope he is the problem solved at it gets Heyward more time to develop.
Chris from the Rock
June 25th, 2009
11:57 am
Maybe Chuck James can hook Bennett up with a job at Lowe’s once he’s DFA’ed.
getsomewins
June 25th, 2009
11:57 am
I don’t think we bark up the Matt Holliday tree. I say we ask Cleveland what it would take for Victor Martinez (of course they’ll say Heyward or Hanson).
FW almost got Peavy without giving up Heyward or Hanson, what’s stopping him from actually getting Victor Martinez.
I think it would take KJ, Kotchman, Medlen, Rohrbough, Bennett and Marek for Victor Martinez. Is Rafael Betancourt hurt, because I’d take him, too.
Poorbrave
June 25th, 2009
12:01 pm
Robert, I to have come around to your way of thinking. Time for Bobby to go. He’s had 28 years, time for new ideas.
getsomewins, I believe the clock is still out on Wren.
Lamar1Banks2
June 25th, 2009
12:01 pm
Roman Gal
The truth for Kelly Johnson lovers is that he won’t get any better.
Well now that we’ve gotten that out in the open, I can move on and live my life. Whew…for a minute there I thought I was gonna keep cheering for him.
Even though you are a day late and 10dollars short that was in response to a numerous post on KJ and why Prado wasn’t playing. I you are going to be a joke teller, then at least be funny, if you ar going to be a smartass then find some child to try to be-little. And if you are gonig to be wrong then at least take the time to research the previous post b4 you get you feeling hurt.
Shug
June 25th, 2009
12:05 pm
Amen to what you said about the great Johnny Bench. He could simply catch the ball better and throw the ball better than anyone else. Also, a great clutch hitter.
Neither Mauer nor McCann is in Bench’s class wrt fielding, but both are real good hitters (Mauer might even be a great hitter). Give them a few more years before we judge. Right now, I don’t think McCann’s that much better than Javy Lopez was at batting.
sportsmandh
June 25th, 2009
12:06 pm
DOB,
Can you tell us if you have any credible trade winds rumors going on? I’m sure that you couldn’t or wouldn’t tell us specifics about things you may or may not hear or suspect, about certain players or other teams the Braves may be talking to. BUT, I am wondering in general do you think trade winds are really blowing, or do you see Wren standing pat?
Efrim
June 25th, 2009
12:10 pm
“I think it would take KJ, Kotchman, Medlen, Rohrbough, Bennett and Marek for Victor Martinez. Is Rafael Betancourt hurt, because I’d take him, too.”
getsomewins, that seems like a lot of quantity not quality for V Mart. He is a pretty valuable chip. If you’re dealing him, then you need to get something more. Kind of like a Hanson or Heyward.
J williams
June 25th, 2009
12:10 pm
As much as some of you think Cox is a major part of the Braves problems, he’s not going anywhere until he chooses to leave. The backlash would make the Smoltz & Glavine uproars seem like a stroll in the park.
The Braves will get another bat, and Cox will get the bullpen fixed, we just have to hope that it happens soon enough to matter.
David O'Brien
June 25th, 2009
12:11 pm
sportsmandh: no, haven’t heard any trade rumors that seem imminent, at all. Royals scouted Francoeur, yes, but so have other teams. Doesn’t mean they’re ready to trade for him; in fact, scouting him in many games recently would lead teams the other way, probably. Though I must say, he’s started to hit better these past 10-12 games.
Poorbrave
June 25th, 2009
12:12 pm
Schafer is not ready yet. maybe Sept. or next year. May take longer.
N8
June 25th, 2009
12:18 pm
scoots, yet from 91-95 the Braves were one of the youngest teams in baseball and played at a very high level. The Twins usually have a very young roster, and I watch a TON of their games. They play the game right most of the time.
The Rays last year, were pretty damn young, not?
Not trying to argue with you, because you’re right. Young guys make more mistakes than veterans (unless they are veterans at the end of the line – and their bodies can’t do what their mind tells them to).
But to me, it’s more of a “talent” issue, than an age issue. Jeff and KJ just aren’t that good. Kotch isn’t that powerful. Mac isn’t the best defensive catcher. Yunel is a brainfart waiting to happen, etc, etc….
njbraves
June 25th, 2009
12:18 pm
Robert…please explain to me how the errors on the field last night are Bobby’s fault. You think Bobby instructed Mac to throw the ball all over the field like he did? You think Bobby told Bennett to throw a fat pitch right down the middle to ARod? Or maybe you are assuming that Bobby Esco, Mac, and McClouth to have terrible nights at the plate??? You don’t like Bobby…fine, but your reasoning is dumb.
Steve from OH
June 25th, 2009
12:21 pm
You think Bobby told Bennett to throw a fat pitch right down the middle to ARod?
Coach does. But when you ask him why he thinks so, he’ll just tell you that “you’re the one defending Bobby Cox.” Methinks Coach and Robert are one and the same. Both hate Cox, both can’t explain why.
getsomewins
June 25th, 2009
12:22 pm
, that seems like a lot of quantity not quality for V Mart. He is a pretty valuable chip. If you’re dealing him, then you need to get something more. Kind of like a Hanson or Heyward.
You must be a Cleveland Indians fan. Medlen and Rohrbough aren’t quality?
Burdell
June 25th, 2009
12:22 pm
My comment about Holliday wasn’t rhetorical. What do you think he’ll get in the off season? If he’s a “$15 million per” guy, there’s no way the Braves can afford to sign him in 2010.
Poorbrave
June 25th, 2009
12:25 pm
J Williams, You must be dreaming. When was the last time Bobby fixed the bull-pen?
Soon enough to matter? It has mattered since day one. every game matters.
Until he chooses to leave? I believe Bobby works for Liberty, JS and FW. This is a business. When they don’t renew his contract, he’s gone. Most likely he will become a VP upstairs. I hope so.
Packerman
June 25th, 2009
12:26 pm
Being a Boras client, he’ll be asking 18-20MM/year. They’ll probably have to settle for 16MM/year.
Renegator
June 25th, 2009
12:26 pm
njbraves:
Who told the pitcher to walk Tex to pitch to Arod? Cox
Who made the call to bring in Bennett? Cox
Who used Soriano, Gonzalez and Moylan in so many non-save situations last week that they weren’t available to pitch last night? Cox
Who trots Jeff and Kelly out every single day knowing that they can’t hit their weight? Cox
Dude, Cox is an absolute moron and he is responsible for much of this team’s failures.
cphizzle
June 25th, 2009
12:27 pm
anybody got any theories on why bobby continues to put bennett in…it is gettin really old and predictable
Billy Walsh
June 25th, 2009
12:31 pm
If you are going to trade for a Victor Martinez or someone who is young, cheap, and has tremendous upside/potential those teams are going to want either Hanson or Heyward. Why on the earth would the Indians want Franceour, Johnson, or Reyes? To land a quality bat..you have to give back quality.
Anders
June 25th, 2009
12:31 pm
Poorbrave – Regarding Schafer not being ready, the same is true for Fernando Martinez on the Mets imo. But look at what happens in the AL with guys like this. Gardner on the Yanks is in the same boat. But in the AL you can bury the guy in the 9 hole and whatever he gives you -great. It’s quadruple A. They treat him like a leadoff hitter when he gets on. The Yanks churned Jeter, Soriano, Cano, Cabrera and others through that system using the 9 spot. After a full season or two you’re ready to move to a different spot in the order to produce.In the NL, you bat 8 which is tough enough in front of the pitcher and you have to produce something.Or they bat you 1st or 2nd which has real pressure.
I hate the DH but I hate having different rules more. At this point I’d just assume add the DH to the NL.
Jurrjens4NLCY
June 25th, 2009
12:32 pm
I wonder which Derek Lowe we’ll see on the mound.
Lunatic Fringe
June 25th, 2009
12:32 pm
cphizzle
June 25th, 2009
12:27 pm
anybody got any theories on why bobby continues to put bennett in…it is gettin really old and predictable
I beleive they are still only carrying 11 pitches with 5 OF. I know BC normally likes to have 12. As mentioned in an earlier post, who else was he to use last night?
Well at least Carlye will be coming off the DL soon. That should at least keep Bennett from getting all the L’s.
Luke L1
June 25th, 2009
12:32 pm
Why would we trade Frenchy right now. I agree he has stunk it up for a while now but he is a natural athlete and relatively inexpensive.I feel that he may regain some value in time. I believe I hold instead of sale low.
o-me
June 25th, 2009
12:33 pm
Steve thinks everyone that hates Cox is Coach are Robert? Damn lots of’em.
Anders
June 25th, 2009
12:34 pm
BTW- Word is A-Rods sitting tonight. Not sure if you guys heard that or not.
DAP
June 25th, 2009
12:35 pm
burdellIf he’s a “$15 million per” guy, there’s no way the Braves can afford to sign him in 2010.
why not?