1:09 pm June 22, 2009, by Carroll Rogers
June 22nd, 20096:00 pm
That line-up is comically bad…BC wins the Moron of the Year contest
June 22nd, 20096:01 pm
Markie how can Chipper have 2 RBI, McLouth have 2 RBI, McCann have an RBI and the Braves lose 4-2?
Canadaian braves fan
McFann if you liked it you can become a follower and get emails about blogs as they r posted
Buffalo NY Braves Fan
June 22nd, 20096:02 pm
You have the braves scoring 5 runs, and losing 4-2, you also have chipper hitting a HR and not scoring a run….
wanna try again?
McLouth of the South
Holy hell Dense Paul Lentz and John Deere Green are forming a bond. This ought to be worth every dime I pay for this subscription…
Did Prado aggravate his groin yesterday? Cause I don’t see the point in not having him in there when Escobar sits.
Ah! I guess I didn’t read that one about Francouer. Thanks for the link! I did see the Schafer quotes when they came out, and I really like those! Love it when guys cann face the music like that.
Canadaian braves fan–
OK…will my e-mail have to be shown on site?
June 22nd, 20096:03 pm
Just a heads up, you spelled Canadian wrong
Lars Taint………….A few weeks ago, I did propose a trade centered around the Braves trading Javier Vazquez to the Rangers for Nelson Cruz. I said that perhaps other pieces could be added to the trade to make it work. However the trade would benefit both teams. Tom Hicks, owner of the Rangers, has shown that he is willing to part with young players and take on payroll in his quest to help his team make the play-offs. A few weeks ago, the Rangers had a 5 game lead. I said that if the Rangers didnt make a trade to improve their pitching that the Angels were poised to make a run. Today, Texas is in first by 1/2 a game. The Rangers need starting pitching. The Braves need offense.
There is NO WAY that the Rangers can compete with the Angels and make the play-offs with their current starting rotation. Peavy and Bedard are both hurt. Besides Javier Vazquez, what other starting pitcher is out there that is worth trading for? The Rangers, Blue Jays, Phillies, and Mets are virtually BEGGING for starting pitching.
My point is that the Braves are dealing from a position of strength. If you want to play, you got to pay. The Braves are willing to pay to play (by dangling Vazquez)……..however, other teams need to be willing to do the same (give us a power hitting right fielder). Either that, or help the Braves with making a 3 way trade.
June 22nd, 20096:04 pm
We Can Make the same trade we make with Hampton…Houston Pay some of his Money (Bergman)
I trade Frenchy,Medlen,Kelly for him..and Houston paid 1/3 of his salary.
TBrown— doesn’t really matter because we all know that a bad team will find a way to lose. It’s a real shame too, because this team can be really good if managed properly. Bobby Cox is mad at Wren and Shuerholz and I really believe that. I’m not saying he keeps throwing AA or AAA at best players out there(KJ/Frenchy)to intentionally lose, but something is up. He used to not do that and had a much shorter fuse and patience. That fire is gone, folks. There’s just not nearly as much as there used to be. Watch some old clips from the 90’s and you’ll see clearly what I’m talking about. I can also tell you that Chipper has just about had it.
June 22nd, 20096:05 pm
A Lance Berkman trade would not happen. He is the face of Houston the way Chipper is for Atl. Carlos Lee is in the middle of a 6yr 100mil contract I believe.
June 22nd, 20096:06 pm
Say it with me Paul Lentz- Javy Vazquez has a no trade clause that bars trades to the NL & AL West.
June 22nd, 20096:07 pm
That was a 3 team “deal” more or less where the Rockies and the Marlins picked up half the salary, I think it was the first 2 or 3 years. The Braves payed the backloaded end of the deal.
I can see a 3 team trade, but it takes a lot to make those happen.
Well, we all agree on this. Wren can’t just sit on his a&& and let this current roster go down with it. Changes must be made. At the very least to address the RF situation.
tarp is coming off. sun is peeking through….
June 22nd, 20096:08 pm
You’re a fiesty lady. : )
The only “big money” guy I would want would be Dunn. Otherwise go with a Cody Ross, DeRosa type. Or, yes, even LaRoche; he of the .100 higher OPS, 7 more HR, and similar defense to our current 1B.
Just noticed Carlos Lee (who’s making $18.5 million this year- yikes) has a full no trade clause…not happening
Lars Taint……..I dont play video games. I watch a lot of baseball. Unlike you, I subscribe to the MLB Extra Innings package on Direct TV. I watch pretty much every Braves game, as well as many other games. I pay attention to what is unraveling in the games. I just use stats to back up what I’m saying.
June 22nd, 20096:09 pm
Cox is an idiot!!!…it’d be one thing to get cute with the line-up if we were 4.5 games up…but seriously…KJ in the 2 hole? WTF? Even if we were to somehow win tonight, which if I had to bet money I’d say we we’re not going to, this is crap, and i need the number to call to lodge an official complaint…can you help us out with that Carrol? Who’s getting the grass-roots fire bobby cox movement going?…come on people…how long are we going to take this crappy leadership?…Fire Bobby Cox!! Fire Bobby Cox!! Fire Bobby Cox!!
June 22nd, 20096:10 pm
Javy’s no trade clause has only been mentioned about 100 times since people started bringing up the idea of trading him…just wanted to make sure Paul was aware of it
Why do I somehow doubt that you are paying attention….
The Frenchy Farce continues…
June 22nd, 20096:11 pm
McFann no i think you can hide it
Thanks for your help
GO BRAVES GO
June 22nd, 20096:12 pm
CB, totally agree.
Salamander, I agree about Ibanez outperforming his contract.
But similar to the D-Lowe signing (believe me, by the end of those 4 years, that may look like the Hampton contract – though Lowe has always been healthy), we overpaid in terms of years to fix a problem NOW.
Sure Ibanez was too expensive, and at 37 years old is gonna be severely overpaid in 3 years. But Wren wanted/wants to win now, and didn’t solve the outfield issues last winter. Ibanez was clearly the best choice out of him, Abreu and Burrell. As for Dunn? No denying his power is above any of theirs (regardless of Ibanez’s numbers so far), but Ibanez has always been the better “hitter”. Which is why he was my choice.
Not to mention his lefty/righty splits were damn near identical.
As for his defense? He’s got none. But neither do the hacks we’ve got in LF, and I’ll take his weak defense over Jeff’s weak bat ANYDAY.
I really don’t think it’s right that some of you on here call me a moron. When I make a post I do every bit of research I can. I have subscriptions to BaseballAmerica, Scout.com, I visit mlbtraderumors.com, and, yes, even video games. Like it or not MLB the Show can be a good source to learn about salaries, etc. I’ve never been a guy that couldn’t get along with people and I simply don’t understand why all of you are ganging up on me. I understand all of the finer points of baseball and have a lot of good things to share if you’ll just give me the chance! What do you say guys?
Still… I like it. : )
Lance Lance Birthday Pants is hitting .241
June 22nd, 20096:13 pm
just go to follower
Please give me one example of the Rangers owner trading a young star who will be making peanuts for several more years in order to take on more salary. Anyway, the point was that you included Frenchy in this trade, but earlier today you said everyone that thought we could trade Frenchy was a “moron”.
cabravesfan, Mike in LA,
The Braves are on ESPN on Wed against the Yanks. If you two are down, we can meet up somewhere and watch the game.
Let me know & I’ll post my spam email address & respond with my real one.
cabravesfan…………I know that Vazquez has a no-trade clause to the NL & AL West. However that does not mean that he cant waive it. Also, I was explaining why I feel that that trade could make a difference for both teams. The Rangers adding Vazquez would improve their starting rotation and help save the work load of the bullpen. And of course Nelson Cruz would give the Braves that much needed pop in his bat. As I said, perhaps some pieces could be added to make this trade work.
Paul, I’m saying that there is no appreciable upgrade by placing Matt Diaz in the line up everyday over Jeff. I like Diaz, however even if you “double” the statistics it’s not so cut and dry. Matt is batting against lefties most of the time and not righties since he platoons w/ GA. I think the matchup there is better, as most people would agree. Put him in the line up everyday and this is what you get:
G AB R H 2b 3b HR RBI BB so sb cs avg obp slg ops
2008 Atl 43 135 9 33 2 0 2 14 3 32 4 2 .244 .264 .304 .568
Now if you look at those #’s, when Diaz was the opening day starter in LF before he was injured, that’s not very good. My point is, when he was depended upon as the opening day starter against lefties/righties, it’s not all that much better if at all than Jeff’s #’s.
That’s all I’m saying
June 22nd, 20096:15 pm
Someone used my name to make a posting at 6:12pm…………..really classy.
The Handsome Pierogi
June 22nd, 20096:16 pm
With the Braves rolling out a lineup like that, I expect Dempster to be in Cy Young form again. It’s hard winning with a lineup of guys that (for the most part) have no power AND have below-average OBP’s.
61 year Braves Fan
June 22nd, 20096:17 pm
Cox’s strategy continues to befuddle me. McLouth a high % base stealer is on first with no one out.
Why not have Escobar take a pitch and McLouth steal. Everybody steals on Wakefield the knuckle-
baller and with a rookie catcher chances are nearly 100%. With this poor hitting team you have to
manufacture a run any way you can and didn’t we lose by 1 run? Also does Escobar ever have his
brains in the game? Allowing a pop fly to land in the baseline that leads to a run is inexcuseable.
June 22nd, 20096:18 pm
Paul Lentz…I think you’re allright…but I admit that most times I skip over your posts cuz they seem tiresome and laborious…but when I do read your stuff, you make good points, and you are well versed in baseball, so I wouldn’t call you a moron…but if i have to see another of your posts mentioning trading vasquez, i think im going to barf…just kidding dude…but maybe you should chill out a little with the dense posting…seems to be pissing some people off
All you people who think you know it all really irritate those of us who really do.
How do you know I don’t have MLB Extra Innings? You must not have watched many Rangers games since you originally posted that we should get Nelson Cruz from the Blue Jays. If you really knew baseball like you claim, wouldn’t you have known who Cruz plays for without having to look on the internet?
June 22nd, 20096:19 pm
Lars Taint………….yes a few weeks ago I did include Francoeur in the proposed Vazquez/Cruz trade. However, as I have had time to time about it…….and see Francoeur continue to suck and not produce….when I put some thought to what he could get in salary arbitration……..I came to the conclusion that no team will trade for Francoeur.
Unlike many of you, I’m more than willing to revise and make a correction to what I previously said. As one gathers more information, I see nothing wrong with making a revision.
June 22nd, 20096:20 pm
No BP tonight?
I dunno….that might be good.
Derrek Lee is really hot right now. In the last 7 days, he’s hit .364, .391, .955, with a 1.346 OPS. His Babip is .308 during that span, too…
June 22nd, 20096:21 pm
Seriously people, stop blaming escobar for the pop-up. Chipper said it’s as every bit his fault than escobars.
The wind was blowing left to right. I’m sure the ball was over Chipper’s head and when it came down fell in front of Escobar. It’s not like he just let it fall. It was a communication error between both players…let it go. It’s not like we didn’t have other chances to win yesterday
would love to but can’t wednesday…maybe another time?
I know Javy can waive his no trade clause, but typically if a clause like that is there, it’s there for a reason and I can’t see him changing his mind…
June 22nd, 20096:23 pm
So you are calling someone a moron for suggesting that we trade Frenchy when you thought the same just two weeks ago? I tried to tell you how wrong you were two weeks ago, and you argued to the death. I guess you must have finally listened to me.
Loaf Garret on a blackberry from the clubhouse soaking his aching feet
WUT UP SUKAS!! I’m listening to California Dreamin’ on my i-pod….I can relate to dis song!!
June 22nd, 20096:24 pm
I guess I’m just going to have to face it. Paul Lentz is the most conscientious poster here. I can’t find a fault with the man. He has won me over with his thought-provoking baseball essays.
I live well north of the ATL and it’s blazing hot up here, so I’d like to thank Francoeur and KJ in advance for the cool winds from the South this evening.
June 22nd, 20096:25 pm
lol Chop Chop, the only post that actually wasn’t his was the only one that was worth reading…
June 22nd, 20096:26 pm
Lars Taint…………..also, to answer your question about “when was the last time the Rangers traded a young player for an established player” question…………back in 1992, the Rangers traded a young Sammy Sosa to the Chicago Cubs for an aging George Bell.
Mike in VA
June 22nd, 20096:27 pm
Carol, the official team website has LHP Jeffrey Lorick assigned to Atlanta Braves in the transactions section under roster. He was the 20th round pick this year. Did this happen or is it a misprint?
rob from sc
June 22nd, 20096:29 pm
No Escobar tonight
Steve from OH
June 22nd, 20096:30 pm
Bobby’s–that’s cool. I can live with “agree to disagree,” though I’m not disagreeing that giving Prado more PT will help us. It most certainly will. Just saying that I think Kelly is due for a rebound and that trading him now would be selling needlessly low.
BABIP isn’t a “performance” statistic persay, as in it doesn’t tell us anything about how “good” he’s been–it’s a predictive stat, as in, is it likely that he’ll rebound or regress or stay the same? As for the LD%, the reason I post that is because hitter BABIP isn’t as definite as pitcher BABIP, as in a hitter’s can go down due to poor contact and the stat will no longer be predictive of a rebound performance, wheras due to Kelly’s still solid LD%, this is a less-likely explanation (though not out of the question). If you think these stats are garbage, then I will disagree with you as there has been a lot of work done on them, and you know I wouldn’t cite something if I didn’t believe in it. You know I wouldn’t cite Kelly’s RBI totals or SB totals if they helped his case (I don’t know if they do or not, just sayin’).
In the case of pitchers, the league average is around .290 or so, so you an expect (in most cases) that a pitcher will eventually regress in either direction toward that number (or thereabouts), based on my understanding of the statistic. So, when Jair is posting a sub-1.50 ERA and some bloggers (myself included) are proclaiming him the next Walter Johnson, you calmly point out that his BABIP is sub-.250, and–sure enough–he has regressed. Right now he stands at .292 with a FIP (fielder independent pitching) of 3.52, so I’d say where he’s at is pretty close to where he should/will be. Which is doggone nice for us.
The guy who did the majority of this work is Voros McCracken who called it “DIPS” (defense-independent pitching statistics) when he noticed that pitchers, even good ones, don’t really have much control over what happens to the ball once it’s in play. Which is why we like pitchers who strike batters out and great defense. It’s all a really good read, I’d encourage you to check it out.
sure…anytime they’re on national tv again i’ll re-ask. I think i saw that you like beer, so a mutual Yardhouse would be a cool place to watch a game.
June 22nd, 20096:31 pm
I guess it doesn’t matter that Alfonso Soriano is struggling so much lately since he’s now playing the Braves.
He’s struggling on a Kelly Johnson-like level…
Over under on his extra-base hits against us tonight…2.
June 22nd, 20096:32 pm
Not fair, how did your long post go through but mine didn’t? I’ll work on a response now….
Canadian braves fan–
Ah! I think I found it–do I just type my e-mail address into that box that’s off to the side?
June 22nd, 20096:33 pm
Haven’t the braves not been able to take BP in 3 days…..and they are hitting well…maybe that’s the trick….
June 22nd, 20096:34 pm
Bobby’s–copy your post before you print it, because I’ve had long ones that’ve been eaten but then I can simply paste them back into the text box and re-post.
remind me again where you are? I’m all for the Yardhouse
June 22nd, 20096:35 pm
wonder what illegal logo booger sciambi is wearing
June 22nd, 20096:36 pm
Lars Taint………..what do you have to say about DUSTING you with the Rangers trade of a young Sammy Sosa to the Cubs for an aging George Bell?
Quiet as a mouse I see.
Looking to Tues,Wed,Thurs,…..has anyone heard if STER-ROD is going to play? I know he was sat down..but just wondering if anyone knows. Thnaks
Chip Caray just told EOF on the pre-game show that bullpen pitchers have to have a short memory to be effective, and O’Flaherty responded by saying something along the lines of, “Yeah, but we get to pitch so much over here that we can forget quicker.”
June 22nd, 20096:37 pm
LOL!! Thanks for proving my point! Tom Hicks didn’t even own the Rangers then, and even if he did, Sammy Sosa had not done anything at that point in his career. Nelson Cruz is among the AL leaders in home runs and he is making the league minimum! HE IS NOT GOING TO BE TRADED!!! You need to make another revision, since you are man enough to admit when you are wrong.
WOW! Kelly Johnson not only in the lineup but in the 2-hole…
I am now in fact certain that KJ is Bobby Cox’s gay lover….Not that there’s anything wrong with that…
Well, is there even a point in watching the game tonight given the lineup?
Maybe if Prado were smart, he’d pull a Shawn Chacon to get the heck outta this place where you can get 3 hits, be one of the top hitters in the entire month for a team desperately needing wins, play solid D at multiple positions, and yet, still have a tough time smelling the field…
Only in Bobby’s Bizarro World…
O’Flaherty made a comment? I don’t think I’ve read two words from the guy…he’s like he invisible man on our roster.
June 22nd, 20096:38 pm
Escobar with hip flexor? I think he is being benched.
June 22nd, 20096:39 pm
His accent kinda took me off guard. I’m not sure what I expected him to sound like, but it certainly wasn’t what he does sound like…
June 22nd, 20096:40 pm
Paul Lentz… Are you really bragging about coming up with a trade made 17 years ago when there was a completely different FO philosophy? You’ve got to do better than that to impress people. Sosa wouldn’t have been anything without his corked bats and roids anyways. Got anything this decade?
Chop, glad to see that you’re giving proper respect to our friend Mr. Lentz. I’ve always liked that about you, LOL. I’m a little shocked that folks are actually still reading the guy’s posts, but, so it would appear.
I just had a horrid, horrid thought. What if Paul Dense is actually Coach’s son? Holy Cornelia.
you said that “Tom Hicks, owner of the Rangers, has shown that he is willing to part with young players and take on payroll in his quest to help his team make the play-offs”, and the best example you could come up with was 17 years ago before Tom Hicks even owned the Rangers! I rest my case.
If you notice Escobar takes control over the infield except on anything hit Chipper’s direction. (No fly zone) The last thing he would want to do is bump into Chipper or something and hurt him.
Just heard that Alfonso Soriano isn’t playing. Thank goodness!!
June 22nd, 20096:41 pm
I know Vazquez is a master at the K’s and dominating for spurts during a game, but does anybody else get nervous before his start that he’ll have that one bad inning that dooms us?
Please Coxie, ax me back
June 22nd, 20096:42 pm
Lars Taint……….you didnt specific Tom Hicks…you specified “the Rangers”. You might want to go back and check your posting.
Theres a good game scheduled in AAA tonight. Clay Buchholz versus Scott Kazmir. That one should be a fun one to watch.
June 22nd, 20096:44 pm
Holy Cornelia indeed, scoots…
June 22nd, 20096:45 pm
Martin seeks light amid power outage: Russell Martin’s season-long power outage for the Dodgers ended with his first home run. What has been the problem?
Hmm…it all started in the 2nd half of ‘08…It’s bad karma from hogging the ASG!
Seriously, though, it is very odd. His hitting has really dipped off.
Obviously Paul, I meant under Tom Hicks since that is what we were talking about. I didn’t mean in the history of Rangers baseball. Anyway, it was still irrelevant since you brought up the trade of an unproven young player and we are talking about a PROVEN young player MAKING THE LEAGUE MINIMUM.
June 22nd, 20096:46 pm
When is Schafer due to return from the DL.
June 22nd, 20096:47 pm
HA, you guys are somethin’! Working on my swing very hard and Bobby sees the work ethic and rewards me. There’s nothing wrong with rewarding guys. How else do you expect guys to get confidence, Bobby instills this in his players. Gotta head out, ya’ll take care and enjoy the game.
KJ signing off
June 22nd, 20096:48 pm
I would call Tom Hicks and see what it would take to get Andrus back. How about this trade option.
Rangers Get: Kotchman, Vazquez, Gonzalez, Francoeur
Is that a fair trade
Braves Get: Elvis Andrus and Justin Smoak
Always good to read your stuff.
All pitchers have that one bad inning. Glavine’s was the first. Vasquez let up on the pitcher and it burned him. I bet he doesn’t do that again.
I would take Vasquez on my team any time. I know he wants to go all the way when he is going good, as any pitcher would. He called it out and that’s more than what most Braves players do. Him and Lowe need to step up and take the leader role. We have no one else. I am tired of the negative stuff and all I do is read DOB.
I wouldn’t want to play for these fans either.
If they would move the stadium to Alpharetta we would sell out ever game. Nobody wants to go down to that cesspool.
We could give them Escobar instead of someone else
June 22nd, 20096:50 pm
rob from sc-
Anyday now. They originally said two weeks, so I imagine he’s getting close to returning.
John Deere Green
My bad JoJo is on the DL
Frank from KS
I disagree with you in that it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Rangers win the AL West IF, that is…they keep playing like they have up to this point…and no one gets hot at some point (Angels, A’s would be the only teams that might).
AND that would be fine with me. Now I know how some people felt when the Braves were winning all the damn time. It’d be nice to see someone OTHER than the Angels win the AL West.
I agree with your post concerning the news of Fehr retiring. Good bye and good riddance. I can still see him on TV 24/7 (at least, it seemed that way) after the strike started.
I’m not defending Scott Boras….but to those who think it’s his fault salaries are through the roof….it’s more Fehr’s fault than Boras’s.
June 22nd, 20096:53 pm
Rangers trading Smoak is like us trading Heyward. Not going to happen…
P.S. They’re not trading Andrus either.
June 22nd, 20096:55 pm
I never knew that in 1999, the year that Andruw Jones had 493 put-outs and a range-factor of 3.12, that he had 10 errors. Wow…
June 22nd, 20096:56 pm
Where is the comment box?
Lars Taint………….notice I said “a willingness to trade young players AND take on payroll” in a quest to win. I guess that you forgot about Hicks signing A-Rod to a 10 year $252 mil contract. Or him signing Chan Ho Park to a 5 year $65 mil contract. Or him trading a young Travis Hafner to the Indians for Ryan Drese back in 2002. Since Hicks has been owner, the Rangers have spent a bunch of money on established players in a quest to make the play-offs.
My point was that a poster said that “there is no way that the trade is going to happen because the salaries dont match”. I said that money would not be an issue here. Tom Hicks will spend the money AND trade young players if he feels that that player can help his team win.
June 22nd, 20096:57 pm
It shows he was human…(Lol)
McBigmouthof the south, You prolly can’t pay attention let alone pay for a damn subscription! Idiot!, I, unlike you have not retorted to calling people names for posting their thoughts, but since you can here ya go YOU ARE AND IDIOT!!!!
reckon what’s up with benching Escobar?
June 22nd, 20096:59 pm
And I, unlike you will admit a wrong, Jo Jo on the dl I was wrong,
I was actually hoping that Francouer sitting yesterday had something to do with him being traded. Oh well, its a nice thought anyway. I would like to see either Dye or Matthews manning RF for the Braves. Either one would be a huge improvement.
June 22nd, 20097:00 pm
Is Escobar being benched for the popup that dropped?
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