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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,699 comments Add your comment
Roman Gal
June 20th, 2009
1:08 am
Wayne-
Have fun spending time with your son!
Chop Chop
June 20th, 2009
1:08 am
The Braves are…
18-18 against teams that are currently .500 or better.
That means they’re 14-16 against teams that are under .500.
uga-brave
June 20th, 2009
1:14 am
chop chop,
i dont think rudy stien is gonna show up tmmrw.
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
1:14 am
cabravesfan—
I would have showed you what I was thinking, but none of my emoticons were mellowed out while smoking a cigarette.
“This is by far the strangest Braves team I’ve ever watched. —- TnBrian
You know, I’ve been following this team since I was a little kid (circa 84 or 85). That is the truest statement, I think, that you could make about this team. At least, in my history.
David O'Brien
June 20th, 2009
1:17 am
WillBrave: Meant to check out that Slaid Cleaves CD last week, but forgot to put it on my list when I was in a CD store that would’ve had it.
By the way, one of the best country CDs I’ve bought since Jamey Johnson’s and Wayne Hancock’s latest is Holly Williams’ “Here With Me.” Yep, Hank Williams’ granddaughter, Hank III’s half-sister.
Oh, and the new Ryan Bingham CD is really good, but not as strong as his last, Mescalito.
Chop Chop
June 20th, 2009
1:20 am
uga,
I had to look that reference up. That should tell you how much I know about The Bad News Bears. I’ve never really been that interested in sports movies. I’ve seen most of the well-known ones, but I think “The Slugger’s Wife” ruined the genre for me.
cabravesfan
June 20th, 2009
1:21 am
Tom-
Nice to see we are on the same page
David O'Brien
June 20th, 2009
1:22 am
Here’s a little dose of the fine Ms. Holly Williams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewRWe9icao0
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
1:24 am
cabravesfan
I find it incredible that there are no country stations in LA. Man, I would have bet the farm against that. Have you ever considered satellite radio? It’s not that expensive, providing your boss actually gives you a paycheck. You can get all kinds of country stations, along with a lot of other music. Plus, you can hear every game. You wouldn’t miss anything on the way home.
nolie
June 20th, 2009
1:26 am
but I think “The Slugger’s Wife” ruined the genre for me. (CHOP)
c’mon man that was an awesome flick. It was about the Braves and had Pete & Ernie & Skip & Mad Al & ‘The Bird” in it. Man you got no taste at all.What kinda homer are you anyway?
David O'Brien
June 20th, 2009
1:27 am
CLE: We saw James McMurtry and Jason Isbell twinbill at the Georgia Theatre last fall. Great show.
nolie
June 20th, 2009
1:28 am
Goodnight Chet….Goodnight David…and goodnight from ….my vibrating bed. see y’all later today.
Chop Chop
June 20th, 2009
1:28 am
Does Chip see any of the “Slugger’s Wife” royalties?
I hope he does. He could probably buy a candy bar every few days with that money.
cabravesfan
June 20th, 2009
1:30 am
Tom-
we used to have a very good country station, but it’s been gone for…3 years now? They just switched formats one day, literally in the middle of one of the DJ’s shows…didn’t even tell him until right before they did it- classy, huh? (that format lasted about a year before it went to spanish language broadcasting)
We do pick up a station from the IE/Orange county that is really good. They made a major effort to bust their signal after LA’s station went down and I listen to them every morning on the way to work. The only problem is all the news and traffic is for Riverside & Orange county, which means nothing to me
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
1:30 am
Hey, goodnight nolie
cabravesfan
June 20th, 2009
1:32 am
Good night Nolie!
kenhotlanta
June 20th, 2009
1:33 am
DOB: the Minnesota public radio station is great…thanks for the link. I wish we (Atlanta area) had an Americana station that also played an eclectic mix. Thank the gods for XM!
uga-brave
June 20th, 2009
1:33 am
DOB,
Chop chop does not who rudy stein is.
Roman Gal
June 20th, 2009
1:33 am
see y’all later today.
Ciao, nolie.
uga-brave
June 20th, 2009
1:34 am
chop chop,
sluggers wife was not a baseball movie.
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
1:34 am
LAdy, this is gonna sound like a stupid question, but I don’t have to deal with your traffic. How often do you need the traffic reports, to and from work?
Roman Gal
June 20th, 2009
1:35 am
“He was pounding the strike zone. We had a great game plan,” catcher Brian McCann said. “He rises to the occasion.”
I don’t remember who said that they thought KK was a big-game pitcher earlier, but I thought they’d like this quote.
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
1:36 am
Roman Gal—
Not to beat a dead horse, but you are reading what our “leader” is posting, aren’t you?
cabravesfan
June 20th, 2009
1:39 am
Tom-
I actually gave up on traffic reports by the time I was about 18…they never report anything short of a major accident, and “traffic is slow from [major freeway #1] to [major freeway #2] and is really slow on [major freeway #3]” day after day gets tiresome
(and actually traffic in the IE and Orange County is a lot worse then in LA if you can believe that)
uga-brave
June 20th, 2009
1:40 am
chop chop,
take this the right way.
braveheart, steve, efrim, lew, flange, rhr, my friend from utah, bay area steve, bubdylan, gil from mech, tennpaull.
that is why i come back.
Roman Gal
June 20th, 2009
1:40 am
http://projects.ajc.com/gallery/view/sports/braves/braves-red-sox-photos/
This is an…interesting picture.
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
1:43 am
“He rises to the occasion.”
“I don’t remember who said that they thought KK was a big-game pitcher earlier, but I thought they’d like this quote.” — Roman Gal
Actually, it was KC, and we established that KK kicks (I almost go for alliteration here, but then say to hell with it) butt in the “big” games. It’s the “small” ones that need work.
uga-brave
June 20th, 2009
1:46 am
DOB,
was reading the paper today and they did a thing on the GRIT and patterson hood.
dbt’s are apparently commin up in the world.
Roman Gal
June 20th, 2009
1:47 am
Tom-
I don’t really care what people think about my conversations the next day. It annoys me that people get so upset about folks here talking about non-baseball related topics. What they don’t understand is that that is the reason this blog is so successful. Music, BBQ, movies, etc…give people a reason to stay here and chat until there is baseball news that we can talk about.
Now, I didn’t really feel “guilty” this morning. I’m a cold, heartless person who doesn’t feel emotions.
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
1:49 am
OK, LAdy, then why is the country station, that you can pick up, a problem? You said something about traffic reports and news.
Chop Chop
June 20th, 2009
1:52 am
uga,
“The Slugger’s Wife” was the most accurate portrayal of baseball I’ve ever seen on the big screen.
That’s probably why football’s my favorite.
cabravesfan
June 20th, 2009
1:53 am
It’s not a problem
Just the “local” news and traffic is not “local” (didn’t mean “problem” like I hated listening to it- more like “i wish they popped in some LA news every now and then”)
uga-brave
June 20th, 2009
1:55 am
chop chop,
and yeah, i am RUDY.
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
1:56 am
Roman Gal–
Those are nice shots. McFann is gonna favor #7, I dare say. The pitcher’s muscles, especially in the face, are something to see when captured by a camera. That’s stuff that the human eye can’t recognize. I’ve played around with a camera, almost all of my adult life. The spectrum of vision, in a camera, blows away what the eye can see.
uga-brave
June 20th, 2009
1:57 am
well my 14 year old german shepp thinks that.
Chop Chop
June 20th, 2009
1:59 am
I’m ready for football, man. Time for the Dawgs and Cowpokes to hook ‘em up out at Oil Man Egotrip Stadium.
Roman Gal
June 20th, 2009
1:59 am
Dang…it didn’t link to the one I wanted to show. I tried to link to #8, by the way.
Roman Gal
June 20th, 2009
2:05 am
Gnight everyone.
I anxiously await a minimum of 14 comments tomorrow saying how stupid it is that we didn’t dissect every pitch of our phenomenal win over the Red Sox throughout the night.
But here, I’ll start…
Pitch #1: Very nice.
KC
June 20th, 2009
2:06 am
If you guys will forgive a very long post, I just submitted this piece to the guys over at Bravesblast.com…
RUMORS OF THE BRAVES DEMISE HAVE BEEN GREATLY EXAGGERATED
As I write this, the Atlanta Braves still find themselves wedged slightly under .500. They’ve demonstrated no reason for Braves fans to wager a month’s rent that they will still be playing baseball beyond 162 games. And I realize it’s hard to muster much faith in any team that’s not even north of .500 by the middle of June. The Braves have certainly been a frustrating team to watch this season. No doubt about it. That said… I wouldn’t advise selling all your ’09 Braves stock just yet.
The reality is that the Braves have at least most of the ingredients necessary to be a high quality team, and they are blessed to play in a surprisingly weak NL East division. For these two reasons, they’re still alive, and they still have a legitimate chance to appear on the formerly familiar October stage.
Atlanta’s pitching is strong and deep. This starting rotation is so solid right now, that recovering staff ace, Tim Hudson, may have to take up temporary residence in the bullpen when he returns to action, presumably about six weeks from today. And despite a couple of recent failures, the Braves ‘pen has been nearly airtight since mid-April. An already very good pitching staff is likely to do nothing but improve in the second half of the season with the afore mentioned return of “Huddy”, and the ongoing maturation of rookie phenom,Tommy Hanson.
As for the offense, Bobby Cox’s lineup now features 3 all-stars (Chipper, McCann, and McLouth) , and two other quality hitters (Escobar and Kotchman). Garrett Anderson may have a much better second half as he continues to acclimate to a new league and a new team, after getting a very late start to his ’09 season. And the return of Omar Infante, not long after the all-star break, will provide further insurance against Kelly Johnson’s patented hyper-slumps. It’s not as though the Braves have nothing to work with here offensively.
Even if Frank Wren and Co. make no further changes to this roster, I think we’re likely to see more offensive output from this Braves lineup than we witnessed through the first 10 weeks of the season. Nate McLouth was mired in a bit of a slump when he was traded to Atlanta, so the full impact of his arrival was not immediately apparent, but I believe we’re beginning to see it. This team will get tremendous offense from at least 3 positions, and solid production from at least 6 or 7 positions.
Given the quality of and depth of Atlanta’s pitching, I believe the Braves could muster enough offense with the pieces they already have to make a post-season run this year. I really do. However, I, every other Braves fan in the world, and every member of the Braves organization realize that something’s missing. There is one missing link that stands between an offense that is hopefully serviceable enough OR unquestionably dangerous! And that one missing link is, of course, a right-handed hitting run producer. Someone who can pick up where Jeff Francoeur left off… in 2007.
The Braves are one piece away from becoming a truly excellent baseball team. And fortunately for the Braves, they’re the only team in their division that can say that. Even if the Mets add one significant starter, or one more noteworthy bat, they will still have substantial holes. And even if the Phillies add a top-tier starter, their rotation will still be thin, and they will still have a closer problem. In short, Atlanta has less to fix than their division rivals.
If the Braves add nothing further to their roster via trade, they will remain an incomplete team. However, with excellent pitching in a division stocked with nothing but incomplete teams, they can still make a run – or at least a spirited jog – at a division title this year. BUT, if Frank Wren can pull off another trade, this time for the quality right-handed run producer they so clearly need… the Atlanta Braves will be the class of the National League East. By a country mile.
Either way, they’re not out of the hunt. There are still 100 games left to play, folks. Rumors of the Braves demise have been greatly exaggerated.
cabravesfan
June 20th, 2009
2:07 am
Roman Gal-
Good Night
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
2:10 am
Roman Gal–
I saw them all. Now I have to go back and check out #8. My curiosity and you being a pain….sheesh
cabravesfan
June 20th, 2009
2:17 am
OK- why is that stupid song of KJ’s following me around?? It was just referenced on the San Francisco 49ers website!! ARRGGHH! Why does it hate me so much?
uga-brave
June 20th, 2009
2:19 am
chop chop,
right on about the T BOONE PICKENS stadium.
that guy is a schill. cnbc loves him.
he never has any intersts right?
i will be there though. was there in arizonia last year. about 25,000 were there too.
gotta hunch that stillwater will not be as fun.
Roman Gal
June 20th, 2009
2:21 am
…and you being a pain
You really shouldn’t expect anything else.
N8
June 20th, 2009
2:21 am
KC, first of all, how could I blame anybody for a long post. Well done.
Nice post, with sound thoughts. that were well thought out. A little overboard in spots. I think were more than one “piece” away from being one of the better teams in the NL.
I think one more piece (as long as it’s a RH bat with power to replace Jeff in RF), makes us the NL East favorites (which of course doesn’t mean squate unless we play like it – but on paper, the Braves would have the most complete 25 man roster).
We certainly have the pitching to keep up with anybody. Can’t argue there. Rotation and bullpen. And young Tommy Hanson is just getting started. Hudson will be a shot in the arm whether in the pen or the rotation.
Like I said. Nice post. Almost makes me optimistic. But then I remember what team we’re talking about, and the fact that we are “closer” to ending up as a seller at the deadline, than being one the NL’s better teams. Next 2-4 weeks are critical in deciding which way Wren leans.
Chop Chop
June 20th, 2009
2:27 am
We’re only an amygdala and a hippocampus away from turning this battleship around.
uga-brave
June 20th, 2009
2:29 am
n8,
1-5 not bad.
the other’s not good.
nate, esco, hoss, macc, and what?
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
2:31 am
KC–
First of all, if you make me read another post, that long, at this time of the night, I’m gonna slap you silly.
Secondly, I agree with you. As bad as the Braves are playing, the starting pitching and the short relief has been solid. If you were to build a club, the first two things you would probably address, would be the starting pitching, and then the closers. We have that. I think we have that better than the teams, that are in front of us, in our division.
Our defense needs improving, and the stupid baserunning has to stop. When you don’t score many runs, this looms large.
Scoring more runs …. ahh, the big problem. With our budget, seemingly at the max, I don’t think there’s too much the Braves can do. If the personnel we already have, doesn’t start hitting, we’re not going to be any better than a .500 team. Somehow, the guys that are struggling, have to get it together. I just don’t think the Braves have the money to do anything else. Where, oh where, is Ted Turner when you need him?
RemoW
June 20th, 2009
2:44 am
A couple of points.
1. No trading Chipper! Every time people get on this band wagon I want to choke someone. You have a HOF 3rd baseman and a 300 hitter with 90+ rbis a season. There is no one in the minors to take his place and I am sure the Mets are not inclined to give use David Wright.
2. Francour’s hitting has been atrocious. But, give the man his due. He has been playing gold glove level right field and lately has started to hit the ball hard.
DOB: You should check out Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers. The best albums to start with are:
Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers real to reel.
Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers live at Billy Bob’s.
Great stuff and some of the best drinking songs on the first album you will ever hear.
Dan…
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
2:46 am
Ha, ha, ha N8pretty much congratulated KCfor his long post at 2:06. That’s like the “Titanic” congratulating the “Andrea Doria” on its sinking.
cabravesfan
June 20th, 2009
2:49 am
That’s like the “Titanic” congratulating the “Andrea Doria” on its sinking
Is it wrong that this made me laugh out loud?
KC
June 20th, 2009
2:51 am
Tom O’Hawke, in the past, when the Braves have set a hard cap on the payroll they take into spring training… that hard cap has included budgeting for a little wiggle room at the deadline. If they have an opportunity to make a rational deal for say… Jermain Dye, right at the deadline, they would have to assume the 4 million remaining of his ‘09 salary at that point in the season. Of course, Francoeur would be gone at that point, so that would cut the amount of payroll they’d be assuming to 3 million.
As for the guys we already have… there are times recently when the bottom half of our order has been the valley of death. When Andrson’s bat was pretty cold to go along with KJ and Francoeur, and they we even had Greg Norton in the lineup for a few days at the same time… YIKES!
But I think Anderson is starting to come around. May was kind of like his spring training, since he’d been out pretty much all March and April. He’s been adjusting to a new league, and a new team after 15 years in one uniform. I think his second half production will be more in line with his ‘08 numbers.
And 2B, which has been a big problem lately, shouldn’t be much longer. We’ve already heard mention that Prado will play there more ofter with KJ’s struggels… and when Infante returns, we’ll be fully insured against KJ’s slumps.
We’re great offensively at 3B, C, and CF… and solid at 1B and SS. As I just mentioned, I’m not worried about 2B or LF. So if we’re solid at 7 positions, and I think we will be moving forward… we should score enough to win with this pitching. And of course, RF and the lack of a big right-handed run producer is the wild card. I think we can get by without it and still make a run. But if we can get that final piece, we’ll really be in business.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I have a hard time seeing them not finding a way to accommodate 3 million dollars to get the piece that could be the difference maker this year. Hell, if nothing else… Chipper would probably once again defer 2-3 million of his salary this year to add one more big bat. Though, I don’t think that would be necessary.
cabravesfan
June 20th, 2009
3:00 am
Time for me to call it a night…later all
Tom-
You going to be around tomorrow?
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
3:40 am
cabravesfan & KC—
I’m sorry I couldn’t get back to you sooner. I lost the internet, temporarily. I had to shut everything down and then get back “up”. (down girl)
Anyway, cabravesfan, I’ll be here until Sunday. I will try to get back here Saturday.
KC, if you’re still out there, give me a few minutes.
Name (required)
June 20th, 2009
3:48 am
KC and the Sunshine Post!
(no, I know it isn’t the blatant homerism some accuse you of.)
You echo many of my own most questionable sentiments. In fact I came deadly near making a “Braves are Going to Win the NL East by 5 games or more” post a few hours ago. I had it all worked out.
Hey, it could happen. We beat the best team in baseball today with our 4th starter on the mound. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Penant.
But, alas… there is Bobby Cox. And… there’s only so much magic in the universe.
Tom O'Hawke
June 20th, 2009
4:11 am
KC– (man, I hope you see this reply eventually)
” in the past, when the Braves have set a hard cap on the payroll they take into spring training… that hard cap has included budgeting for a little wiggle room at the deadline. If they have an opportunity to make a rational deal”
The operative words there are, “in the past”. I can’t pretend that I know what’s going on in their books, but it seems as though everything they have said about their payroll limits, are true. Just look at the way they handled Tom Glavine. To be able to pay Nate McLouth his “paltry” 2 million dollars, they turned their back on Glavine. The entire economy is different, especially lately. I doubt you’ll see those lucrative free agent contracts, again, for quite some time. As far as the Braves go, they used to have one of the highest payrolls, back in the Turner days. Once Time-Warner took over, they said it had to come down. It had to come down, at the same time that most others were going up. It was amazing that the Braves were still able to win as much as they did, given those circumstances. Winning it all would have taken a stroke of luck. Other teams were loading up, and we were going the other way.
I don’t know what the Braves projected as attendance figures, for this year. But I doubt they figured as low as they are. To summarize, KC, I just don’t think they can do what they want to do, or what you or I, want them to do.
Bravo Nam
June 20th, 2009
5:44 am
One thing you gotta love about the Bravos is that they have management who want to win…JS and FW made some gutsy moves in the offseason, took some heat for a very unpopular decision with Glavine, and are doing everything possible to get another bat…imagine being a fan of some of the other teams around whose management is keen on selling even though they’re not much further out than the Bravos…now that would suck.
PWHjort
June 20th, 2009
7:36 am
Maybe this team is starting to click!
NCBravesFan
June 20th, 2009
7:41 am
Guys, I appreciate the optimism but the fact is the two pitchers we’ve beaten (Maloney & Dice-K) haven’t brought a lot to the mound lately. I won’t believe this is real until we beat a better caliber of pitcher.
If the Braves get to play today & or tomorrow, let’s see how the offense performs against Wakefield & Beckett.
PWHjort
June 20th, 2009
7:48 am
MCBravesFan,
Earlier this season we were getting shut down by the likes of Jason Marquis, Paul Maholom, Micah Owings, Jonathan Sanchez, etc… Just a bunch of crappy token number 4 starters, we were getting shut down by. I don’t care if we’re facing Dan Kolb, if we score runs it excites me.
eastbound and down
June 20th, 2009
7:49 am
We went up swinging; we didn’t go up taking tonight, and we had a great pitching performance from our guy,” Cox said.
this approach worked in this game, but how many games has it cost the braves? this lineup of hackers has been shut out 7 times.
NCBravesFan
June 20th, 2009
7:55 am
PWH – Micah Owings? You mean the guy who beat us on Wednesday?
I love your excitement, but it’s not a trend in my book till it hits about 20 games.
And for the record, I hope you guys are right!
Braveheart
June 20th, 2009
7:58 am
I’ve had this sense these past couple of seasons watching Bobby Cox and the Braves, the sense that Bobby is sort of chasing his tail, trying to recapture one more moment of postseason glory rather than go out on a down note. (DOB)
I get that feeling as well. In the late 70s, early 80s, he put in his time developing the core of that ‘82 team and didn’t get to enjoy the success of that team. Then he spent the rest of the early 80s developing those young Blue Jays teams, but came back here just as the Jays were going off on a strong decade long run. Then he sat in the GM’s office here in the late 80s, and only returned to the dugout in the early 90s when he knew he had accumulated enough talent that things were about to get real good down there. So, sometimes, I think that he sees the young talent that’s here – McCann, Frenchy, KJ, Escobar, McLouth, Kotchman, Jurrjens, Hanson – and wants to be there with them when they all finally put it together, especially since he’s put in so much time tolerating their growing pains. Since he missed out on ‘82, I sometimes think that maybe he’s chasing ‘82 with these Baby Braves. When the Baby Braves finally give him a chance to battle with them in the postseason like his Blue Jays did in ‘85, maybe he’ll know then that it’s time to walk away like he did with the Jays. But then I sometimes think that he’ll stick around as long as Chipper is here and ride off into the sunset with 10.
Braveheart
June 20th, 2009
8:30 am
Here are some numbers from some of Bobby’s other teams:
Lloyd Moseby – ‘82 – .236, .294, .376
Jesse Barfield – ‘82 – .246, .323, .426
Jesse Barfield – ‘83 – .253, .296, .510
Jesse Barfield – ‘84 – .284, .357, .466
George Bell ‘84 – .292, .326, .498
George Bell ‘85 – .275, .327, .479
Dale Murphy ‘78 – .226, .284, .394
Dale Murphy ‘79 – .276, .340, .469
Dale Murphy ‘81 – .247, .325, .390
Remind anyone of the mixed bag of a certain rightfielder on the Braves, and why maybe Bobby has had the patience of Job with him? This ain’t Bobby’s first rodeo. He’s been there, done that, unlike almost every single blogger on here. Over his many years in the game, Bobby’s seen the worst of the growing pains experienced during the development of budding stars by playing them everyday through the age of 25. It often ain’t very purdy.
I don’t know if Frenchy will ever realize his talent, and I do think he has been killing team for the last 220 games, and I have serious doubts that he’ll ever figure it out and put it all together, but the point I’m making is that it is awfully easy to label Bobby an old fool for playing Frenchy everyday, or to question the financial and marketing motives of the front office by playing Frenchy everyday. It’s alot more difficult to examine the history of the man, and see that what he’s doing with Frenchy ain’t much different than what he did in the past with Moseby, Bell, Barfield, and Murphy. It’s perhaps then not a matter of playing favorites with the Golden Child, The Chosen One. It’s perhaps something he’s always done with struggling, developing talent when he’s had the freedom to do so. The patience paid off for him with those guys, although he was undoubtedly called a middle aged fool back then for being so patient with those fellas.
Braveheart
June 20th, 2009
8:48 am
The firejoemorgan folks gave DOB hell once for saying Soriano has the face of a closer, but he sure as hell looked like he had that face working last night. Soriano had the look on his face that Denzel always has in the movies when you know Denzel’s about to make someone’s life a living hell.
Braveheart
June 20th, 2009
8:53 am
Four years of abject mediocrity is frustrating as hell, but I find this year’s team more fun than anything, just because of diminished expectation. I’ve always thought they were an 85 win team. To me, that means they were just as likely to win 82 as win 88, just as likely to win 79 as 91, just as likely to win 76 as 94, just as likely to win 73 as 97, just as likely to win 70 if everything fell apart like last season as they were to win 100 if everything came together and if they got every luck break.
Shamus Thacker
June 20th, 2009
9:07 am
Fine posts as always Braveheart…
bravesfanforever
June 20th, 2009
9:22 am
Braveheart…
I think you need better examples of Bobby’s past hitters. You brought up seasons where every one of those guys were trying to reach their potential, i.e. still on the way up. The problem with Francoeur is that I and most fans believe he has already seen his glory days and he is on his way down. I challenge you to find any player who has played at a relatively high level, hit rock bottom for more than one year, then returned to form (without injury playing apart in it). if you do find one, I bet it will be a guy who had decent mechanics in the first place.
Please don’t bring up any catchers. They get beat up so badly behind the plate that it’s no wonder many of them have up and down seasons.
A better analogy for Francoeur would be …
Lloyd Moseby in ‘88
Jesse Barfield in ‘88 (he “came back” briefly with the Yanks but it’s not like it was burnin’ it up in ‘90 with a .246 BA)
George Bell in ‘93
Dale Murphy in ‘88
Interesting that you picked these guys. Every one of them had relatively short careers (Murphy played 18 seasons but he only had 10 decent years in a row–he was pretty much washed up at age 32).
Also interesting that 3 of the players started on the decline in 1988.
I believe that Frenchy is washed up. He was never that good of a player in the place. Free swingers better be good at one thing: hitting balls out of the strike zone. If you can’t do it, then pitchers are eventually going to figure you out and get your swing so messed up that you are through. If he would simply stop swinging at the first pitch and try to be reasonably selective, he would hit better. It’s a fact that players BAs are much lower after 1 strike and even lower after 2 because most become defensive. Right now he is hitting mistakes and is really lucky to get a hit.
Maybe there is hope. I could be wrong. I personally never say never, but I think in this case it would be an absolute miracle if he came back to ‘form’–which as I say wasn’t that great in the first place. I believe you can never judge a player by his first season where in his case was only 257 ABs, so not counting that year, Francoeur has never a slugging percentage above.450 nor has he ever had an OPS above .782. I would say that’s average production from a right fielder.
Does everyone realize that at the moment, his OPS is LOWER than last year???
I’m not even sure why I’m bringing this up since most fans would agree. I think he is still tradeable but it certainly would have been better to trade him before the season started since we would have had the perfect excuse that his raise was too big. If Braveheart thinks there is still hope that surely some general manager thinks that too. I HOPE!
Doc Holiday
June 20th, 2009
9:26 am
Who is this Chris Burke guy we signed yesterday?
What does this move means, does it means Martin is gone? KJ?
Braveheart
June 20th, 2009
9:27 am
Alot of folks gave Wren hell for giving Soriano that $9 million – one swarmy mofo in particular loved harping on it like a little b!tch. But go to fangraphs and look now, and Soriano has given the Braves about $5.7 million dollars of value the last two years – $0.5 mil last season, $5.2 mil this season. That means he’s paid Wren back already for last season, and is about halfway to working off his debt to Wren for this season’s salary.
And if you look at Win Probablity Added which examines how well he’s done relative to the average pitcher in the game situations he’s encountered, Soriano has been worth 1.93 wins above an average pitcher. Teams paid on average $4.6 million the last two offseasons for every win above replacement. $4.6 * 1.93 is worth $8.88 million. That only takes into account his value above average though since that is all WPA measures. There is more value to be added to that once you take the replacement factor into account.
No matter the accounting game you want to play, if Soriano keeps it up, he’s gonna pay Wren back the money he was paid. Wren likely won’t get back all the extra value he hoped to get over what he paid Soriano, but inherent in that contract was an understanding that Soriano had a history of injury woes. Aggressively, Wren hoped to make alot of money off Soriano. Realistically and reasonably, he hoped to break even, which he may very well do if Soriano keeps it up. And if he lost altogether taking a risk on a very talented, but very injured and moody late innings reliever, well, he’d only have been losing an average of $45. mil a season anyway. What’s that really worth on the market anyway? Apparently, $4.5 mil ain’t enough to buy a fortysomething with a torn labrum on the free agency market, and it’s only worth a little more than a Francoeur on the arbitration front. In other words, $4.5 mil ain’t worth much at all.
Lew
June 20th, 2009
9:30 am
RomanGal-Cruel heartless and stupid? Never. Just couldn’t happen.
Tom O’Hawke-I don’t think the Braves left Glavine ride into the sunset because they couldn’t afford to pay McLouth. I think they let him go because he wasn’t going to be worth the million and it was time for Hanson’s ascension. Given that no one else offered him a shot with as thin as some teams are in the pitching department pretty well makes them look like they made the correct decision. If the Braves are in it further along and it means keeping seats filled, I’ll bet they can come up with a couple mil more to pick up someone worthwhile if they become available. Of course if they play like they have the last two games (one can only hope) it won’t matter.
UGABrave-You need to post during the day so we can talk more often.
Braveheart-I think you’re probably right about Bobby. He’ll be here until Chipper retires. He’s only 68 and just had another knee replacement. He’s ready to keep going for a few more.
NCBravesFan
June 20th, 2009
9:31 am
bravesfanforever: I agree. The problem with trying to trade Jeff now is that since he’s arb eligible and making over $3 million a year, he becomes an immediate liability for any team that would trade for him … and means that the Braves will settle for next to nothing if they decide to deal him.
Having said that – a “little something” is better than having to decide whether to non-tender him this offseason or keep him & go through arbitration – which Jeff will almost certainly take the Braves through if he stays.
Lew
June 20th, 2009
9:34 am
Braveheart-If we could only sign one of our closers for next year (or the next few), I’d go with Soriano over Gonzo. I like them both, but think Rafael is more lights out and intimidating. Love to keep them both, but we know that move ain’t happening.
prattvillenolzfan
June 20th, 2009
9:44 am
i saw where Leland has benched Magglio Ordonez “indefinately”……..
Think he’d be an improvement over OUR RF……..
Steve McP
June 20th, 2009
9:51 am
Chris Burke may be a familiar name as he played for the Astros when they knocked the Braves out of the play offs in 2005. He hit a homer in that series, but has always been a fringe/utility player. Probably signed to give fielding depth and cover in the case of another injury to a position player. Maybe also cover in case Infante does not come back as expected.
Doc Holiday
June 20th, 2009
10:00 am
Steve McP,
Why would Infante not come back? there is no reason for it.
prattvillenolzfan,
I would give it a shot………..Ordoñez for Frenchy straight up…………..or maybe we would have to add somebody else……….but I would take the risk,
Doc Holiday
June 20th, 2009
10:03 am
On other thought………..I just read how much money that guy is owed………Id pass.
Doc Holiday
June 20th, 2009
10:08 am
Kevin Millwood is 5th in ERA in the AL.
Boy ……..you think Texas loves making deals with us the way we love to make trades with the tigers and pirates?
Doc Holiday
June 20th, 2009
10:10 am
Yankees and Phillies using the same recipe this season………..top 5 among scored runs bottom 5 in pitching …………in the majors.
David O'Brien
June 20th, 2009
10:12 am
Shame we don’t have a day game here today, because right now it’s sunny out. But there’s a massive green blob headed slowly this way, and it’s gonna start raining tonight and supposedly not stop until Monday or Tuesday.
Braves are 15-7 at Fenway, by the way. Yes, there was a time when they could, more often than not, beat anyone, anywhere.
Doc Holiday
June 20th, 2009
10:12 am
Braves leading the league in fewest HR allowed…………..phillies are dead last.
Braveheart
June 20th, 2009
10:13 am
You may remember Chris Burke from the 18th or from his time as Corky on Life Goes On
Shamus Thacker
June 20th, 2009
10:14 am
Either Bobby has an enormous beer-gut, or some seriously drooping man-boobs that would put Dolly to shame.
No wonder he’s on the knee-replacement “buy-4, get-two-free” plan.
Doc Holiday
June 20th, 2009
10:15 am
Braves are the 3rd toughest team to fan in the NL.
Doc Holiday
June 20th, 2009
10:16 am
Surprisingly Nats have the 2nd highest amount of walks and Astros are the 2nd hardest team to fan.
David O'Brien
June 20th, 2009
10:17 am
Just heard that Magglio was benched indefinitely by Leyland. He’s gone 38 games without a homer, batting about .270 overall now
Doc Holiday
June 20th, 2009
10:19 am
Phillies leading the way on Fielding %……….Lots of runs + good defense = who cares about pitching.
Maybe we could use the equation ————- lots of pitching + good defense = who cares about sluggers.
bravesfaninmassland
June 20th, 2009
10:20 am
DOB – absolutely agree on that White Rabbits disc. It’s great. You can hear Britt Daniels’ mitts all over that one. It could easily be mistaken for a new Spoon album (minus Britt’s vocals, of course). The White Rabbits put on a good live show, if you ever get a chance to see them.
Shamus Thacker
June 20th, 2009
10:22 am
Doc, have they tried those huge industrial fans?
Shamus Thacker
June 20th, 2009
10:23 am
Wow, Leland would have Frenchy and KJ executed at dawn.
bravesfaninmassland
June 20th, 2009
10:24 am
By the way, don’t know if you like Dylan’s earlier acoustic stuff, but if you do, you should give The Tallest Man on Earth a listen (if you haven’t already). Shallow Graves is the best American folk album by a Swede that I’ve ever heard.
Steve from OH
June 20th, 2009
10:29 am
Braveheart–solid posts as always.
Doc Holiday
June 20th, 2009
10:29 am
Shamus Thacker,
I tried to laugh, but I just couldnt…………sorry pal…….I´ll try harder next time.
Viewing Tips
June 20th, 2009
10:29 am
I wanted to continue my rant last night listening to Chip Caray sounding like and idiot, but my wife took my computer
This from DOB last night speaking of Jason Bay’s homer over the Monster:
“David O’Brien
June 19th, 2009
9:00 pm
Moon shot, OVER the Sports Authority sign above the Monster. That’s on the Mass Pike.”
Know what Chip Carey said when it happened? “That homer might not be out at PNC park in Pittsburg where Bay used to play.” I laughed out loud!
It was so bad Joe Simpson simply had to correct Chip and inform him that the ball is out ANYWHERE!
I just can’t take Chip’s incessant talking just to be talking. Even his dad knew that it was ok to have a little dead air on occasion where you could actually hear some crowd noise.
Chip makes Joe Morgan sound like he should be a Ford Frick award winner!
J-MAN
June 20th, 2009
10:38 am
Roman-Gal: I never said Frenchy was clearly outperforming KJ I said he was taking a heck of a lot more heat than KJ for basically the same type of stats and don’t say he a 2B because he was converted from the outfield to put more pop in the lineup. But KJ has made game costing errors this season and I know you remember that dropped ball from last year, ala Luis Castillo. My point is .238 is .238 no matter how you slice and dice it and frenchy defense can at least save you some runs KJ defense won’t.
Lew
June 20th, 2009
10:40 am
Doc-You may remember (though apparently not) that Millwood was traded to the Phillies for Johnny Estrada so we could keep Maddux who had accepted arbitration. He then went to Cleveland and finally to Texas. We did not trade him to the Rangers.
Doc Holiday
June 20th, 2009
10:42 am
Sorry Lew———-you are right—– my bad
Shamus Thacker
June 20th, 2009
10:44 am
Gave it a shot doc.
One of those I wish I had back. lol
Lew
June 20th, 2009
10:45 am
Doc-That’s OK-the Rangers have plenty to be happy about with the Tex trade.
Lew
June 20th, 2009
10:51 am
Re: Magglio Ordonez-Do any of you actually think the Tigers would trade him straight up for Francoeur? Even if they were inclined to do so, he is due the balance of $18 mil this season, $15 mil for next (with a $3 mil buyout) and a $15 mil salary with no buyout in 2011.
Sorry, but I just don’t see the Tigers eating that kind of salary (again) or us taking it on. As a matter of fact, I can’t see the Braves wanting to pay the $3mil buyout, much less the multi millions in salary. I also don’t see him improving his HR numbers at Turner Field. If he can’t hit them in Detroit, TF won’t help the situation.