1:37 pm June 14, 2009, by Carroll Rogers
The Bird and Indian
June 14th, 20099:59 pm
the hope of the braves nation rests in your hands mr hanson: They are two different players but they are both guys that are great at WHAT THEY DO. Yunel isn’t a power hitter and was never supposed to be. He is hitting at 300 this year and has a career 300 average. He has a career OBP of 370. Both of those are 30 points above Dye’s. The point is Yunel is already one of the best SS in the league and will only get better. He is still extremely raw and once he gets a true hitting coach will get better fundamentals. He actually does have power to use (home run in Arizona) but you probably weren’t watching. If someone can get a hold of him and show him how to use more of that power he might be able to hit 20 homers a year, but either way he is a shortstop and we don’t usually ask the SS to hit for much power. That is what the outfielders and 1st baseman usually does. (cough cough). Yunel has a great arm and great range in the field. He has easily made up with the few mental mistakes he has made, even though i can argue with that, with his offense. How about you go and get on JF or KJ or LOAF instead of one of the best SS in the league.
June 14th, 200910:00 pm
“im a huge braves fan but this is just another example of us as a fanbase thinking that our homegrown prospects/players are the best in the game no matter the numbers. i know a lot of other fanbases do this but we over value our own player’s so much so thats its become laughable. you are the same people who three years ago were saying that yunel was the next arod…. cmon fellas.”
Who said yunel was the next A-Rod? Your argument makes no sense unless you are talking about KJ or Frenchy because they are nothing like what people thought they would be. On the other hand Escobar is pretty much as advertised. A guy who would hit 15-20 homers a year and hit a lot of doubles and be an average guy. Great to know in his second full season that he is the one who looks like the overrated prospect. Maybe its you my friend who is the idiot.
June 14th, 200910:02 pm
Has anyone noticed that the Braves have actually been striking out less–due no doubt to the fact that they ar all some kind of ate up on seinging early, and have been hitting into DP at less than an alarming rate.
Wow how far we have to sink to see something positive.
You know going to Cincy should be the signal of a three game winning streak, but I see a Redlegs sweep in the cards. Lot of good Braves fan in The Queen City and lots of interesting urban architecture.
June 14th, 200910:04 pm
Jake W.: Exactly. But I think his power might be a little underrated and if TP wasn’t our hitting coach he might be able to show it more. The power he showed in ‘Zona amazed me.
June 14th, 200910:06 pm
Hey `Carroll and Co.
Just got back from Baltimore a while ago. An amazing trip into the city and great experience at the game, outside of the result. Just throw random sights and sounds from the game. Arrived before gates opened and from then on til departure time, I saw more Braves fans in attendence than Orioles fans, which was pretty cool. Watched batting practice and Kawakami work out. Got my picture taken with Roger McDowell, real cool dude. Then had awkward run in with Kawakami and his translator, asking to take a picture with him, which he obliged to.
I thought Nate McLouth was a bat boy at first sight, dude is pretty small. He covers alot of ground in center field however.
Moylan seems to be a nutcase, but a really funny guy. It didn’t surprise me Hanson and Medlen seemed to be hanging around him alot, older guy who is probably real down to earth.
McCann is the greatest teammate IMO. I think he is such a stud of a player but even a better person/teammate. Keeps things loose, fun, yet serious at the same time. Love what I saw from him as the team warmed up.
Medlen carried a Hello Kitty bookbag out to the bullpen, pretty funny stuff.
Passing the open-air pressbox, I yelled up to Carroll to no avail. Either didn’t hear me or ignored her adoring fans.
Garrett Anderson is the laziest player I’ve ever seen. Nate McLouth caught two fly balls in left field today. Anderson broke his bat, picked up the broken piece, and slowly and I mean to the point my girlfriend and I cracked up laughing, slowly walked back into the dugout, almost holding up play. He also slowly saunters in and out of the dugout in between innings. Just funny stuff, he is my girlfriend’s new favorite player.
After the lackluster performance, went into Inner Harbor, grabbed a bite at the ESPN zone, listened to some local band play outside near the harbor, and headed back to the Philly area. Great day and had a wonderful time. Now I need to get down to the Ted for my first game in Atlanta. Trust me, the game was more bearable sitting in the stands and taking in a beautiful day at a beautiful stadium. I’m still on a high, even though the game was pretty awful all around.
June 14th, 200910:12 pm
Pryguy, you picked up on the Loaf getting his wood together, the O’s fans around me noticed that two.
Medlen did look cute with his book bag. The O’s fans though he was a jockey left over from the Preakness last week
June 14th, 200910:21 pm
BOBBY COX HATES BLACK PEOPLE.
June 14th, 200910:22 pm
Joebrave (June 14th, 2009 9:40 pm): “Oh how convienent that Random whined and had my post removed , because I called the point on him…”
I have no idea what you’re blathering about, though I’m quite confident it couldn’t happen to a more deserving poster-child.
June 14th, 200910:32 pm
First off, njbraves, I do not mean to imply that you are either of the above. I’m simply also addressing those bloggers that may fall into those categories.
Like I said previously, I respect yours and others points as well. Aside from the rundown today, which I firmly believe was dictated by instinct – costly, and admittedly perhaps erroneous instinct — I do not recall Yunel being guilty of any mental mistakes. I may be making a mental mistake now and cannot remember one. If you consider getting forced at second on the hit by Mclouth, or the run scoring from second vs Pittsburgh, we’ll just have to agree to disagree about those being mistakes, per my initial earlier post. As far as the baserunning mistakes earlier this year, they were all because Yunel was overly aggressive, which like so many others on this blog have stated (perhaps yourself) would prefer to have in a player than the opposite. Many were understandable situational mistakes, and quite a few were probably a result of Yunel trying to do too much, for good reason when the rest of the anemic offense fails to perform.
For example, lest we forget the very play that Yunel gets lambasted for on Sunday, he attempted himself earlier this season. I can’t recall the date or opponent off hand, but there was one out, Yunel on third and Chipper on first. Chipper gets picked off, and lackadaisically fails to stay in a rundown. Given that would be the second out, and a fly ball sac fly or ground out will no longer score the runner from third, Yunel tried to make an aggressive baseball play and try to pick up his teammates long-standing inability to execute fundamentals like getting the runner in from third. The Braves haven’t executed fundamentals well for years (a reflection of BC some would argue), particularly in the past couple during Yunel’s tenure. Thus, a frustrated, fiery, and fearless Yunel, who has grown accustomed to seeing that waiting for someone else to make a play rarely pays dividends, tries to make something happen himself. He got caught working his way down the baseline while assuming Chipper might, and SHOULD, have put forth a little effort to stay in the rundown. Instead, Chipper is quickly and easily tagged out followed by a quick strike to third to nail a diving-back-to-the-bag Escobar. Which leads me to my main point. WAS CHIPPER JONES PULLED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME FOR DISCIPLINARY REASONS FOR HIS PLAY, which BC was quoted today as saying, “We pride ourselves on doing things right and being in the game [mentally] and don’t do things lackadaisically.”??? Chipper most certainly was not pulled from the game. Not even a peep out of Cox after the game about the star third baseman’s “dogging it” in the rundown. Hello Bobby? A double standard?
Look. I just hate to see Yunel – one of the Braves most productive Braves – at the center of the fallout over the teams struggles, and again possibly in the middle of trade talks that I guarantee will haunt this team for years to come if the front office were to make such a drastic move.
June 14th, 200910:38 pm
Not trying to start an argument because you do raise some good points but what do you mean about Chipper “dogging it” during the rundown?
pryguy, thanks for your post and a breath of fresh air. glad you had a good time. i’ve come to really appreciate the harbor after a couple of days here….and i didn’t hear you passing by the press box or i would have said hello!
Bad Scooter, chuckles….
I was not on 790. don’t know where that came from. and whoever is posting under carroll rodgers needs to be drop-kicked.
thanks wheels. a run on the river and ice cream sound great!!!
as for Escobar, Bobby made it pretty clear he was basing his decision today on an accumulation of mistakes. and by the way, he didn’t pull andruw because he hated him or had a big problem with him – shoot, Bobby loved the way Andruw played center field – but that day it was time to teach him a lesson. ….when i asked cox today about if he was trying to send escobar a message, he sighed and said he’d talked to escobar an awful lot since he’s been here. maybe this is another way he’s trying to get his message across. tough love for a young player. I, for one, think it’ll be interesting to see how Escobar responds. I liked how he handled things in the clubhouse today. He faced us, answered all our questions and didn’t act defiant or upset, just gave his response and that was that. I’m sure today was a shocker for him. i could understand when he said “primero” (hey, yeah, i’m sure smart) that this is the first time that’s ever happened to him. got to be a jolt to the system.
June 14th, 200910:40 pm
YE19, just read your last post and at least one other one, and just wanted to make sure you knew that bobby had more to say about the double play in the first inning than the rundown.
June 14th, 200910:41 pm
Marlins Rumors: Hermida, Francoeur, Ross
By Drew Silva [June 14 at 4:01pm CST]
Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald has a couple of baseball-related updates in his most recent “Florida Sports Buzz” column:
* The Marlins have received several calls about Jeremy Hermida, but the offers “haven’t been enticing.” Sounds like it’ll take a good chunk of talent to land the 25-year-old outfielder, who is hitting .276/.373/.421 with eight home runs and 29 RBI in 228 at-bats this season.
* Altanta offered Jeff Francoeur straight up for Cody Ross last week, but the Marlins quickly declined. For reference, Francoeur, 25, is batting .250/.282/.345 this season with four home runs and 29 RBI. Ross, 28, is batting .270/.320/.482 with 10 home runs and 39 RBI.
If the Braves are truly shopping Francoeur, what other clubs make sense? A change of scenery would probably serve him well.
When Chipper got picked off he didn’t try and get in a run down to allow Yunel to score. He just stopped and let them tag him.
June 14th, 200910:42 pm
Those NBS Championship hats are FUGLY!
just like the Lakers….they basically half-a*** there way to a championship
June 14th, 200910:43 pm
Yunel’s a young player. If Bobby sees him dogging it in a way that rubs him the wrong way, it is his managerial duty to reprimand the kid. This is exactly the sort of thing that people have been complaining about for the last few years:
“Bobby never holds these guys accountable.”
He just held a guy accountable. You mean to tell me that we’re going to have a bunch of people b!tching and moaning about that? Man, I know that sports blogs (and many other kinds of blogs) are filled with obsessive-compulsive micromanaging lunatics who can never be satisfied by anything, but…ugh.
Escobar should have been sat down a while back. Kelly has already been benched for not hitting earlier this season. The only guy that seems to avoid reprimand on this club is Jeff Francoeur. I don’t know what Jeff would have to do to get out of the lineup on a regular basis, but I suspect that it would involve sticking his right hand in a Waring blender with the setting on “Purée.”
Ah, ok. Thanks
June 14th, 200910:44 pm
I simply have a hard time believing Esco’s head wasn’t in the game. I still think he simply reacted incorrectly on his instinct and very recent similar play at the plate. If his head was indeed, out of the game, then I hope you are right about having his head in the game the rest of the year. More importantly, I hope it expedites Yunel’s maturation process so we no longer have to engage in these discussions about his alleged mistakes. Wouldn’t it be nice if we were all instead arguing with Nats, Phils, or Muts fans that our SS, not any of theirs, should be an All-Star?
That said, I do not agree with Bobby 1% about how he handled the situation; and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if it accordingly had a negative impact on Yunel.
June 14th, 200910:45 pm
Damn good post Ye19. Cox needs to look in the mirror to see the biggest problem. He lets his golden boy slide and other in past. Esco is one on the best players by far hitting 300 and hustles all the time. Sure he makes mistakes but who don’t on this team. Cox just has a problem with Esco’s over reactions which most fans like. Cox need to retire.
That last note was a copy paste 100%, not a word from me on that one.
June 14th, 200910:49 pm
Tale of the tape of David Ross vs. Jeff Francoeur:
……………………………David Ross………….Jeff Francoeur
Why dont the Braves put “Ross” in right field (just kidding, lol)? Point is, for a guy with such a strong arm playing right field………..Francoeur simply has no power. 15 homers in his last 831 at-bats is HORRIFIC.
The time to bench Francoeur has passed Bobby Cox. I keep hearing talk about having class and going about things the right way. My question is “how classy is it to play someone who simply does not deserve to play”? During the Braves 14 year run in the Play-offs, I do not recall anyone who has hit as PITIFUL as Francoeur has the past year and a half that Bobby let play that long with such terrible at-bats.
I wonder if something beyond baseball is going on with Yunel. He used the excuse of family Wed. (I think it was that day.) Either that or his hip is still bothering him a little. Cause he does make blunders, but not that many in one week.
June 14th, 200910:50 pm
I didnt know already had made phone calls involving Jeff……. That one about Ross would be interesting if we add something from the farm.
June 14th, 200910:51 pm
Yunel gets benched, McClouth can’t hit anymore, Francoeur can’t hit a homerun, Kelly Johnson totally sucks, Chipper stays hurt, McCann can’t see & Garret Anderson doesn’t want to play anymore…Yeah, the 2009 Braves are really fun to watch.
June 14th, 200910:53 pm
IT’S UP TO THR MANAGER TO ORDER THE PLAYERS TO NOT SWING AT THE FIRST PITCH. TODAY 5 HITS TWO HOME RUNS? TRY TAING WALKS,HITTING TO THE OSSOSITE FIELD, BUNTING, STEALS,ETC. NOT BOBBY’S WAY TO PLAY THE GAME!
AS MUCH AS I THING BOBBY IS A BAD MANAGER,I BLAME THE CHEAP OWNERSHIP AND MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL FOR ALLOWING A CORP TO BUY A TEAM JUST FOR A TAX BEFENIT, NOT CARING ABOUT PUTTING A BETTER TEAM ON THE FIELD.
June 14th, 200910:54 pm
I really hope we don’t trade Francoeur. His potential far outweighs his trade value.
Typo in my last posting. Francoeur has 29 RBI’s not 27.
June 14th, 200910:58 pm
What is funnier? watching the braves play or going to the circus?
Or is it the same thing?
June 14th, 200910:59 pm
In reference to your recent posts, I did see BC’s comments in the stories you posted. I can understand the DP more than the rundown. Replays of that play do confirm Barbaro’s throw was a bit weak and Lowe was perhaps a bit slow getting to the bag, but Escobar’s weak throw stood out even more because I’ve grown accustomed to watch him throw lasers, often times if only to show off the cannon. The whole play just struck me as a little odd. Then again, had Escobar thrown a laser just out of reach of Lowe, then half of a blog page would be full of more Escobar criticism for a resultant throwing error.
Anyhow, thanks for all of the hard work you put in. Loved the post game commentary, and glad to hear Yunel handled himself professionally afterwords.
Trade talks from teams are reportedly heating with the Orioles and the Braves are included. Both Roberts and Scott would be a nice fit. Boy It would be nice to have Roberts on our team.
June 14th, 200911:00 pm
Since I can’t think of a single positive baseball-related thing to say…..
Beautiful and interesting weather today. Gonna be nice tomorrow too.
When we do start winning regularly again, all this tom-foolery at the moment will make it all the sweeter.
There, pretty positive I’d say…
if as DOB mentioned that the Red Sox have at least looked at Diory Hernandez, Bobby was able to try and teach Escobar while giving Hernandez some playing time as possible trade bait
June 14th, 200911:02 pm
I don’t know if something is going on with him, but (and I mentioned this way back right after the game) it takes a lot for Bobby to publiclly call out a player…only he and Yunel know how many conversations they have had privately about Yunie’s mental mistakes. I am not typpically one to criticize players (even when they deserve it) but for Bobby to do that, there was definitely more then just the last few days.
Cody Ross is a solid player. If we could add him for RF, we would be in good shape. The Marlins are hoping that Michael Stanton will be ready for RF next year along with an improved Maybin in CF so they may try and clear space. Unfortunately I would imagine they would only try to clear space in the offseason (he would still be a good get then) since they have had a decent year and are ahead of us in the standings.
June 14th, 200911:05 pm
Just read YE19’s 7:49 post.
Well written. Nice job.
Only problem is that it seems like a series of appolgies for Escobar’s performance.
You mentioned the play on McLouth’s hit. I was at the game. I saw the play unfold AT the game. I didn’t have the filter of camera angles on TV or view what they chose to show me. Escobar suffered from brain lock on that play, plain and simple! Cory Hart decoyed him and Escobar bought it hook, line and sinker. He stopped gauging the flight of the ball and took Hart’s fake. He didn’t listen to Glen Hubbard yelling at him from the first base coaching box, he turned the world off. It’s not a talent problem with Escobar, it’s a head problem.
I know, I know, he played with the Cuban All-Star Flying circus whose job it is to play baseball and entertain the crowd between innings riding in a clown car. That’s why he’s a hotdog who won’t be rehabilitated.
And it was Kelly’s fault that Esco went to sleep and didn’t throw to home to stop Monroe from scoring in the Pirate game. No one in the stadium thought Monroe was going to go. Well the only one who matters is the person who is holding the ball and that was Escobar. Escobar. The same Escobar who stole second twice in his first year in ATL while pitchers were picking their nose or adjusting their cups. The same Escobar who has demonstrated that part of the game is taking advantage of the opposition if they go to sleep. So in essence, Escobar knows to expect the unexpected. He has capitalized on that himself.
Kids SHOULD learn in Little League (assuming they at least have a coach who actually played baseball) that a play IS NOT over until everything has stopped. You have to be aware of ALL the baserunners and their intent. Escobar KNOWS that and if he doesn’t, he wouldn’t be in the major leagues. He went to sleep. He didn’t have his head in the game.
Escobar’s problem is NOT his talent, it’s his focus. It’s his attitude. If focus and attitude can be adjusted, he will have a fine career, maybe even with the Braves.
To make excuses and appolgies for Escobar’s behavior and performance is like enabling a bratty child to continue being a bratty child.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
June 14th, 200911:06 pm
well put escodog
June 14th, 200911:08 pm
I’m wondering why they would really want hernandez. I think Brandon Hicks would be better than him. I read that it could have been Escobar they were interested in.
Yunel's Frosted Tips
What the Braves need to do this offseason, 2009 is over for them:
Hire a new manager and coaching staff
Sign a free agent shortstop, rightfielder, and catcher
Move McCann to first so he doesn’t have to sit out games, deal Kotch
Move Yunel to left field so his blunders aren’t as noticable
I have said it many times and I will say it again,”Bobby Cox time has passed”.The Braves will never win as long as BC is manager.He is a good man,but what the Braves need is a NEW MANAGER.I don’t understand why The ATL accepts less than what they could have.We accept Woody and BC when they would be run out of most cities.That is Major League cities such as LA,NY,Boston,Philly and St.Louis.We deserve better from upper management and we aren’t getting it.The Braves have QUIT on BC and a blind loyalist should be able to see that.By blaming Escabor today was weak.He has made some questionable misstakes,but God knows he ain’t the problem.He is a symptom of the problem,BC just can’t get it done.The Team needs NEW direction.GO BRAVES…
Anybody see that the Cubs fired their hitting coach today?
June 14th, 200911:15 pm
Please JJ let’s not bring up big Woody on this blog! haha, but we did go to the playoffs with him.
June 14th, 200911:16 pm
The radio crew said no one was covering 1st, and it was not Esco’s fault. How the hell do u get a dp with no one on 1st.
Cox needs to go not Escobar. If Esco is traded to hell with the Braves.
BC should do the right thing and step down. It is obvious to anyone watching that he has completely lost this team. I’ll say it again, The Rockies fired their manager and reeled off a nice winning streak. A change should be made before we are 7 8 or 9 games back.
June 14th, 200911:18 pm
I love it. All the morons who are constantly ranting on here that Bobby is too easy, and he finally sits someone for poor effort and most of the same posters are ranting at Bobby for throwing him under the bus. That is not something that Bobby likes to do so you have to know that he has spoken to Yunel a whole bunch of times to little effect or he would not have done it. As for the Latino crap, Bobby and Andruw were extremely close after that incident, so obviously Druw had no belief that it was culturely motivated. Pure hokum. You people will look for any way in the world and turn any action around as far as you can to rip the guy.
June 14th, 200911:20 pm
IV – Great
II- Bad, but bearable
my exact thoughts.
June 14th, 200911:22 pm
Altanta offered Jeff Francoeur straight up for Cody Ross last week, but the Marins quickly declined.
In today’s news: the Marlins aren’t stupid and the Braves are still vastly overvaluing Francoeur. Film at 11:00.
June 14th, 200911:23 pm
Simply put,the Braves need some passion and fire.Some players need to know,if you are not producing,you sit.Kelly Johnson has to go,trade,release either way he must go.The Brave have lots of middle infielders in the system.Let one of them come up and let him play,it would have to be an upgrade defensively from what KJ is giving them there.Maybe Francouer should take a page from a young Smoltz go see a sports psychologist and get his head on straight….But a change has to be made.Over the past few seasons its been the same problem(feast or famine)on offense either the approach has to change or the voice its coming from needs to change.
As far as BC goes,I think some players like playing for him because they can go 0 for 25 and not get sat down.Do the Braves even have a manager of the future,or go after a Freddy Gonzalez.I don’t see any coaches on the staff being elevated to manager.
the hope of the braves nation rests in your hands mr hanson
first off, no one three years ago was saying that yunel is just going to be a 15-20 hr a year SS! nearly every brave fan was saying he would hit 30 easy and would win a gold glove every year. Yes. that is what was said time and time again. maybe not by you but by about 10,000 other people on forums very similar to this one. can yunel be solid? i hope so. but right now this kid’s attitude is preventing him from doing that. he is too aggressive all around. not only at the plate but on the base pads. other players around the league despise him….what do you think his teammates think of him? yeah, the guy hit a bomb in arizona….it still counted as a single homerun. he has potential. the favorite phrase used by all of us.
look, im not trying to attack anyone on this board and looking back at my original post that was a little uncalled for. no, it was very uncalled for. i am, like many of you, very frustrated with this team right now. it just gets under my skin when our players dont live up to potential and make mistake after mistake. and when people get on here and other forums and act as though our players/prospects are some of the best in the game when most are clearly not. i have a big beef with that. just look at these trade ideas that keep getting thrown out around here left and right for proof. and the sad thing is that these people are dead serious. so when i saw the comparison to dye it set me off a bit. i apologize for that. its just i would take diory at short and dye in right in a heart beat and i believe this team would much better for it. i think a coaching change would ultimately help but this team is not as talented as everyone likes to think it is.
as far as trade goes with baltimore for luke scott….it would be great. problem is we are running extremely low on prospects. i think thats why we drafted so many college players early, in hopes that a couple will progress a little faster.
sorry if i pissed anyone off with my post. that was not my intention. again, im just very frustrated about how this team is playing right now….still no excuse.
Remember last year when Brayan Pena was let go and everyone thought Yunel would be a basket case? Well, if we trade Frenchy…will McCann become a basket case? God, I hope not!!!
Maybe we should keep Frenchy just so McCann will be happy and productive.
June 14th, 200911:24 pm
nolie, you’re the moron.
His potential far outweighs his trade value.
What “potential”? There is no more “potential” after 600 major leagues games and 2,200 MLB at-bats. He is what he is.
To the only hope comment way back when about one of my comments. The only thing I compared Escobar to Dye with is that it is a big mistake to make THAT trade just like it was with Dye – that was THE ONLY thing said. There was absolutely no mention of players and to try to compare their numbers would be crazy since the two have completely different expectations for both their offensive and defensive games.
The only thing I would have to say JJ is that at least Woody has taken his team to the post season twice within the past 5 years. With Bobby you have to ask the question what have you done for me lately? Bobby has done absolutely nothing, and after his press conference today and the singling out of one guy (one of your top guys) and the crappy work ethic this team shows I would have to say that I’m personally done with Bobby which sucks…because I’ve been sticking up for the guy throughout all those crappy post season performances when people was shouting for his head. His time is up and its time for this organization to move on.
Hey, next time you post something like that can you add a warning at the beginning so we can duck and cover from the flames?
June 14th, 200911:25 pm
After watching the ATL Braves lose games to Pittsburgh and Baltimore, going 2-4 against these lower rated teams, I am now convinced that unless the Braves can put together a huge winning streak, say 25 out of the next 30 games, this season is over and they will be fighting with Florida for third place in the NL East, for the remainder of the season.
The team is making way too many mistakes in the field and can’t seem to put together enough hitting to be dangerous. Now is the time for Frank Wren and his scouts to put together the team for 2010. It is time for Braves fans to be calm and rational and realize it is time to say, “Wait ’til next year”. Good night and keep bloggin.
June 14th, 200911:27 pm
Yunel gets benched, McClouth can’t hit anymore, Francoeur can’t hit a homerun, Kelly Johnson totally sucks
Umm….dude….Francoeur more than anyone “totally sucks”.
June 14th, 200911:28 pm
Yeah, the 2009 Braves are really fun to watch. (AJC)
so don’t watch them , nobody is forcing you to. what are you a masochist?
June 14th, 200911:29 pm
as for Escobar, Bobby made it pretty clear he was basing his decision today on an accumulation of mistakes
But according to the brain-trust on this blog, it’s Chipper and Kelly who cannot field.
June 14th, 200911:31 pm
nolie, you’re the moron (Justafan)
thanx dude, coming from you that is an extreme compliment.
June 14th, 200911:33 pm
If it’s good enough for Jimmy Rollins, it’s good enough for Escobar. Enough of the backpicks and defensive lapses — he’s got to start playing like a consistent major league shortstop. He must improve his baseball IQ — if only we still had Elvis Andrus…. Escobar might have been forced to work on this deficiency. He has no one pushing him and he’s playing like a player with no accountability. Bottom line — that’s the fault of the front office! Right now he’s the fourth-best shortstop in the NL East. Good for Cox for doing this…. he should pound his fist a little more with this inconsistent group and maybe they would be fighting for the division lead!
June 14th, 200911:34 pm
I just saw the replay of the rundown on the DC news. Watched it a few times. For whatever it’s worth, Lowe got to 1B about the same time Escobar turned to throw home. It was obvious he had no chance at the runner at home at that point. I’m not sure if he would have been able to tag the other runner or throw to Lowe before the runner crossed the plate, but at worst the run would have counted and the inning would have been over.
June 14th, 200911:35 pm
thank you bobby for benching yunel.. I hate the way he flips his bat when he grounds out to short.. and I hate the way he frowns when he strikes out.. Garret Anderson has got to ge the laziest outfielder in baseball.. Is it me or does he look like he hates being with the braves? Kudos again for bobby trying to send a message, but this team is seriously short on major league talent outside of the starting pitchers.. Yunel bring your big girl pants to cincy and lets get ready to play some ball.. YOU SERIOUSLY ARE STARTING TO MAKE ME LONG FOR Andres Thomas…
June 14th, 200911:37 pm
Escobar may make mental errors but KJ still can’t field.
No More Bobby
June 14th, 200911:42 pm
Kudzu Wildcat – It will always be wait until next year as long as Bobby is our manager.
June 14th, 200911:45 pm
The only thing is (IMO)…Lowe got out of the inning anyway. It’s not like it was a bone crusher….for that game at least. Now taking him out for the past week, I understand, but none of the excuses about this game, cause we all know had that been Kelly with the ball, he wouldn’t have got benched. He be trashed on here, but not pulled. It wouldn’t really make sense to pull him with Esco not though. But I will ask one question…since I ain’t got a replay. Why didn’t Kelly cover 1st? Where he was positioned would it not have be easier for Kelly to get the throw?
Chipper has to stay at 3rd…and shouldn’t the pitcher be backing up home…when a runner is on 3rd?
June 14th, 200911:46 pm
Kudzu Wildcat: If we win 25 of the next 30 games we will be winning the wild card by a couple of games and probably be right with the Phillies. I would love just 20. The NL wild card is very winnable this year. We are only 4 games back! Look at the Rockies who are now a half game better than us. They have won 11 in a row because things started going their way. If we can get just a little hot we will be right there. In no way is this season over? The season is over when you start getting double digit games back in July. We are a very solid team already and if FW makes a move for a 2nd baseman or outfielder than we are definitely looking good. Hopefully he believes like me that we can compete for the wild care or even the division. The teams in front of us right now are the Marlins, Rockies, Cubs, Reds, Mets, Cardinals, and Giants. The only teams that scare me there are the Cubs, Cards, and Mets. Mainly the Cardinals considering they have been successful this year without a lot of Carpenter, Glaus, and Ankiel. The Mets are the Mets and are destined for a collapse at some point which might be going on right now. I don’t think they have enough pitching to compete very much. The Cubs are a good team. Good offense and good pitching. They won’t run away with anything though. Right now with this team I think we are about a 500. team with and upside of maybe 85 wins if the offense clicks a little more. I think it all comes down to if Wren wants to make something happen so we can make a run THIS year or if he wants to wait until next year or 2011. It’s funny though because so many of you come on here and have said the season is over we aren’t good enough let’s just wait until a few years. But you don’t leave it at that, the next night you come on and say this team is horrible we suck when are we going to make a move. Decide one. If you want to wait until next year why do you get mad that we keep losing. You say you want to be sellers but if we do that you will keep getting mad when we lose. The fact is we have a chance to compete and it really comes down to the month of June and right before the all star break to let Wren decide on our destiny as buyers or sellers.
June 14th, 200911:59 pm
Good story, pryguy. I can’t believe you didn’t get a pic with Loaf. I’m so getting a pic with Loaf someday if he’ll oblige.
Mark: Actually Kelly has had a far worse season than Jeff Francoeur. Please don’t tell me you’re the same Mark that posts on the Hawks blogs.
Adam: Yunel Escobar is the 4th best SS in the NL East? Really where did you find that out. Clearly Hanley is the best. He is the best in the game. Other than him let’s check out some things.
Jose Reyes: 279.
Jimmy Rollins: 217.
Yunel Escobar: 294
Jose Reyes: 355.
Jimmy Rollins: 252.
Yunel Escobar: 357.
Jose Reyes: 2/15
Jimmy Rollins: 4/22
Yunel Escobar: 6/33
He also has a better slugging percentage, and OPS than they do. He has more total bases, doubles, runs scored, hits, and sacrifices. Nuff’ said?
June 15th, 200912:07 am
Cubs fired their hitting coach today….. PLEASE, Braves follow suit and fire TP!!!!!!!!!
June 15th, 200912:08 am
All the not hitting funk finally rubbed off on Chipper, I guess McCann is next. That is some nasty stuff goin round. Wish we could package it and ship it to the Phils and infect them.
I liked Chipper’s quote in Bowman’s story. “Whether or not we think [Escobar needed to be pulled] is irrelevant,” said Atlanta’s Chipper Jones. “Bobby obviously thought it was the right thing to do. I’ve seen him do it to other players before to send a message. Hopefully, [Escobar] gets it.”
I would’ve sworn I saw a similar quote from Chipper on a story here, except with the “whether or not we think he should’ve been pulled is irrelevant” line. I can’t find it now, guess I was mistaken.
cabraves, my condolences. Ugh. I’d hate to be in L.A. tonight. I bet that bandwagon is overflowing.
June 15th, 200912:12 am
bravos2249. That’s a fair point about Lowe getting out the inning. I don’t have strong feelings either way on the benching. Just pointing out what I saw. Obviously the benching was for an accumulation of things, so I don’t have a big problem with it either.
I didn’t notice Kelly on the replay (wasn’t looking for him either) but my assumption was that Escobar was chosen to cover on a stolen base attempt so he broke when the runner broke. Plus it’s probably easier for a first baseman to throw to a SS moving to the bag than a 2B, The SS is running toward the throw, the 2B would be running away from it and looking over his shoulder. My guess is that Lowe covers first because he can get their the fastest, Kelly would have been covering second behind Escobar in case there was a throw to Lowe at first and then back toward 2nd. The play didn’t last long enough for all that the develop but I think that’s the proper way it would be played.
June 15th, 200912:13 am
RHR – I saw that quote on here too without the “whether or not wethink” part.
June 15th, 200912:14 am
I knew it wasn’t likely but I was hoping the Magic would pull it off…I really like Dwight Howard
June 15th, 200912:15 am
Thank you. You make good points and your arguments are valid. Whether your assessments or mine, or somewhere in between is the truth, then I just hope this whole situation can be put to rest and learned from by everyone involved. Esco is too good a talent to not be considered a cornerstone of the future for this organization.
I sensed sarcasm in your response about the Cuban circus. Look. My main point there is that when you play the game a certain way all your life, it undoubtedly takes some time to adjust – Yunel has seemingly made significant progress in that respect, and will hopefully continue to do so in Atlanta. At the same time, you don’t want him to lose that fire that also makes him great. He just needs to tone it down a notch at times. It’s a fine line.
As far as relationships in the clubhouse goes, everyone needs to put forth more effort in that respect. Imagine not being able to speak the native language and accordingly not being able to effectively communicate with the majority of your non-hispanic speaking teammates. Then having a seemingly constant barage of advice and critcism about how to play the game the American or Braves way. It’d be one thing if it were a good cop/bad cop psychological thing betwen coaches and players toward Yunel. For example if Bobby says “Come on kid, you’ve got to quit flipping your bat”, and his teammates supported him and said “Yea, Skip’s got a point. We know it sucks, it might be a tough habit to break, but you just gotta find away.” Then hey that’s one thing. If I’m Yunel and I see the guys are on my side and suporrtive then psychologically I’d be more inclined to get right, so to speak.
But if the your teammates are seemingly unsupportive, such as when Chipper publicly called him out to the media about not liking to be hit by pitches, when Yunel had a few run-ins with opposing pitchers earlier this year, then it would probbaly feel like everyone is piling on you. You’d then be prone to be even more reserved and stick with the guys you can relate to (IE. the ones that you can talk to because they speak your language), whether they support you or not. It’s no wonder Yunel is seen so often next to Chino or Martin.
I’m not saying Chipper needs to invite Yunel to a filming-trip for BuckHunter (although it’d be bada$$ to see Yunel rifle down a deer with his arm). All I’m saying is maybe instead of calling him out like a brat child, embrace him. Support him. The psycholgocal impact of knowing the guys will rally around you has to be better than the seemingly one-sided constant ridicule and attempted molding that no doubt would affect one’s attitude.
June 15th, 200912:16 am
rhr, what was Chipper suppose to say. How many player do you know that went against Bobby and was not traded or released.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
June 15th, 200912:19 am
Brian McCann and Jeff Francoeur have been competing with and against each other since high school. Given the current state of affairs between the Braves and Frenchy, the situation must weigh heavily on McCann. To his credit, our All-Star catcher soldier’s on.
Jeff Francoeur obviously has the raw talent to be a big time major league talent. What the young man doesn’t seem to grasp is that the dream is slowly slipping away. Home town boy makes good, gets drafted by his favorite team and goes on to a long and productive career.
It ain’t gonna happen, sad to say.
When the best hitting coach (arguably Rudy Jaramillo) in the big leagues spends the off season working with you, revamps your entire approach at the plate, gives you a brand new batting stance and then you (FRANCOEUR) abandon it…..
Well, the hand writing is on the wall.
About Bobby Cox. Yes, the man has lost his team. Unquestionably. Unfortunately the remainder of the 2009 schedule will be nothing more than an exercise in futility.
I can only hope the man retires. Then we can all get excited for the future….again
June 15th, 200912:20 am
Poorjeff – How many “player” do you know that went against Bobby and was traded or released? You make him out to be the dictator of a third world country. He’s respected, not a prick.
June 15th, 200912:21 am
Mark: Actually Kelly has had a far worse season than Jeff Francoeur.
No, he hasn’t. Johnson has 21 XBH to Francoeur’s 12. Johnson has more homeruns. Johnson’s OBP is above .300 and his slugging above .350. Johnson’s OPS is around 70 points higher than Francoeur’s. Johnson doesn’t play a premium offensive position. Johnson is making less money than Francoeur.
When it comes to “no value”, Francoeur takes the cake.
June 15th, 200912:22 am
agree ye19. good points.
June 15th, 200912:23 am
JD, sometimes the truth hurts.
June 15th, 200912:25 am
ESPN Baseball Tonight called the Francoeur situation “sad”. Can we trade the guy so everyone can move on?
June 15th, 200912:29 am
YE19, I am a fellow weatherman in the Navy. What kind of work do you do in NC?
June 15th, 200912:32 am
Mark: Well those are some good stats. It is kind of sad that we are arguing between who has had a worse season and we are putting up these pathetic statistics but….
Kelly as a lead off man for the majority of the year has less SB’s than Jeff which concerns me.
Also Francoeur hasn’t made an error all year and Kelly has 4 which isn’t bad actually for him. I think those stats are more important but either way they have both have had some pretty sorry years.
June 15th, 200912:39 am
I bet the Francoeur-Ross thing was a low ball offer. I can see it happening still, we will just have to throw in a prospect or two. (as bad as that sounds…)
June 15th, 200912:47 am
I presume you live in NOVA or MD? I haven’t been to a MLB game in that area since the old Orioles Park probably 20 years ago, but would love to catch a Nats-Braves game there sometime.
Very *cool. How long have you been a met for the Navy? NWS for me-I love it.
June 15th, 200912:48 am
Even if Frenchy will get better later in his future I really do believe he needs to be let go…traded…Just for the fact the team doesn’t have to keep HOPING he’ll hit. They need to be thinking of other things and don’t need that big elephant on their back. When a bad hitter hits behind you, or 3 spots behind you, it puts pressure on everyone else to try and either bring in the run before he gets a chance, or having to cleanup after he stinks.
June 15th, 200912:52 am
YE19, For about 7 years now. I got me some shore duty this time around in Pearl Harbor. We mainly do maritime forecasting out here. My last duty station was in Yokosuka, Japan. I loved it there, too.
We just went on a tour of the NWS in Honolulu at the University. Very cool stuff.
June 15th, 200912:59 am
Cody Ross would be an upgrade over Francoeur, but I’m not sure I’d be too excited to get him. To say that he’d be an upgrade over Francoeur is much more of an indictment on Francoeur than it is a compliment to Ross.
June 15th, 20091:07 am
I’ve said it before and I’m prob the only one who will think this but . .
IF we are so desperate for a bat and we have no financial means left to pursue that bat why don’t we do something unexpected that kinda makes sense.
Why don’t we trade Lowe?
Now I’m not saying this because Lowe did badly today against Baltimore. Just hear me out.
Lowe is a nice arm in any rotation. He ideally is a #2 but could be substituted as a #1. He has great control and will do well as long as he has a good defense behind him catching those ground balls.
Yes he is in his late 30’s but someone wrote an article about how because Lowe didnt become a starter till so late in his career he doesnt have as much mileage on his arm and is essentially coming into his prime as a starter.
Yes I know he is being paid more than a lot of teams would want to pay him as well.
Now what we would need is a team with a pretty good INF Defense. A team that has an OF that we could acquire that would bolster our lineup in a Big Way. And a team that desperately needs pitching.
So I present to you the Texas Rangers.
Here is a team that has a young core of pitchers coming through the gate with Kevin Millwood on his way out and no one to really head the rotation.
They have a very solid defensive infield.
And they have a Bat we could use.
Why dont we trade:
Cash (Say 4 Mil a year on Lowe’s Contract)
The Rangers get a Pitcher to slot either behind or infront of Millwood. Lowe also most likely wouldnt see a drastic increase in his ERA since he is a GB pitcher (Although I’m not 100% on this). They also get him for 3 1/2 Years.
Yes they lose Cruz in RF. BUT they gain Frenchy. With the way their hitting coach has turned around Andruw Jones and how Frenchy started the season so much better after being under him not to mention the ballpark his numbers will get better for that team and he will be at least league average.
Then they get Hamilton back in July.
Braves will of course lose their “Staff Ace” but we still have a solid 1/2 behind JJ and Vazquez. Kawakami is pitching like a #3 starter with league average ERA and has shown signs of improvement. From there they can slot Medlen in the #5 hole.
If you want to take it further they could then possibly do a trade for a decent starter to hold them over till Hudson gets back since they will have cleared most of Lowes salary.
Now if you really want to stretch it you could delve into the whole issue that appears to be happening with Escobar where we might see him get traded Escobar and or Kelly Johnson would certainly be enough to net us a pitcher and im talking BETTER than Brad Penny
June 15th, 20091:14 am
Ye19—Bravo on your posts.
The feeling I get from Chipper’s quote is not an all-out endorsement of the benching, although he will not call out bobby either, ever. Escobar is a bit cocky, but its because he is good, and at least I can tell that he tries his hardest to win. He is a player that has the ability to dominate the game offensively and defensively. People should not try and stifle his fire too much, or you risk destroying him by making him less confident or more complicated.
And I’ve heard enough of the apologist for Francouer touting his potential. He needs to be given the option of going to the minors without a stink, for an extended period. If he disagrees, he should be released. We don’t need an over-confident, stubborn, arrogant 24 yr old ‘hitter’ that makes millions for producing nothing. My opinion of Jeff will never change unless he realizes his ineptitude and humbly agrees to a demotion. His character, to me is of a spoiled little punk brat that needs to be smacked down by life’s harsh lessons.
Ive read so many complaints over the years on this blog about the team having no fire, no person that is willing to erupt and lead this team with passion. now that we finally have one, there are complaints about his attitude. i dont get it. I’ll take 3 escobars in the outfield, two on the infield, and one in the bullpen, well…we actually have him there already in Gonzo.
I also don’t understand why this team has been mired in so much drama this year. This is more drama than I’ve seen over the last 15 years combined. I don’t like it.
I also don’t think this season is over. We would need a hell of a lot to go right, but we can put together a wild card run. Our Braves fans keep waiting for a 18-3 run like the good old days, but its not going to happen with the team as currently constructed. we either need a big piece, or significant improvements from the players we currently have. But it is possible. We should accept this team as a .500ish team and get behind it, go out to the games and hope for the best. Boo when they suck and cheer like crazy when they don’t. Fans give teams persona, not the players.
One way I would suggest to fix the offense is to bat Yunel leadoff. Take his 300 average to the top and let mclouth, chipper and mccann have a shot each to bang a long ball with him on base. I think GA is done, and whatever we get from Frenchy and Kotchman, and KJ is a huge bonus at this point. Our hopes for scoring has been and will be on the shoulders of those first 4 guys.
I love the Braves, Go Atl.
June 15th, 20091:17 am
All of this wheeling and dealing is a result of our prospects(KJ/Frenchy/Reyes/Morton/Schafer/etc.)not panning out. Gant/Justice/Smoltz/Avery/Glavine/Lemke/Klesko held their own through the 90’s and so the run of success began. We’re now seeing what the other half lived like back in those days and we hate it. Don’t blame Cox or Wren or Sheurholz for the fall. More of just the way it is and make the best of it type thing. Cox has always made bone headed decision but the talent covered his butt.
I can see Wren getting in on one of the Orioles hitters, hopefully Scott and Roberts…that’d be sweet.
June 15th, 20091:32 am
I doubt the Orioles would want to move Roberts at this point. They’ve now got the young talent around him to justify keeping him. A year or two ago, it made a lot of sense to unload Roberts. Now, not so much. It does make sense for them to move Luke Scott though. Scott will turn 31 in a couple of weeks and although he is arbitration eligible for the next three years, it would make sense for them to trade him off to get help in other areas. They’ve got Markakis, Jones and Reimold to play OF. Pie hasn’t panned out, but he was once a top prospect and he’s still just 24 years old. He could also factor into their OF mix which could move Reimold to DH. Ty Wigginton is signed through next year so he could, at worst, factor into a DH platoon to replace Scott. Scott would obviously have MUCH more trade value than Wigginton and all things considered, he’s the guy BAL should probably deal to patch up some weaknesses for the future.
June 15th, 20091:34 am
The post at 1:07 a.m. is HILARIOUS and I’ll leave it at that
Pathetic! Not the Bravos, most of the losers on this blog. I would not go into battle with most of you, as I’d be too worried about getting shot in the back or having you jump ship at the slightest problem. If you want to have a backbone, maybe you should come and join me in Cambodia where the people are bravely trying to overcome being bombed back to the stone ages by the US Air Force; murdered, disembowelled and decapitated by the Khmer Rouge; and, dealing with poverty and endemic corruption on a daily basis…you might learn something.
If you want to know about real baseball pain, maybe sit down and have a chat with a Nationals, Royals or even an Orioles fan.
Firstly, Robert, take your tired act back to New York…you’ve always been and always will be a Mets fan, despite saying you’re now a Bravos fan. You don’t just hate Cox, you hate the Braves!
Most people on this blog look as though they could do with some serious psychiatric help. It’d be nice if just a handful of you were consistent. Year after year bloggers rip Cox for being too soft on the players, then today, when he finally cracks the whip on one of them everyone is screaming outrage. WTF!!! Cox has every right to do what he did today, and I hope he will do it more often. Someone wrote about him throwing Esco under the bus. Another WTF moment! Are you kidding? He’s about the only Coach who doesn’t throw players under the bus! Many of you nobs are criticinsg him for singling Esco out. Obviously, you all suffer from selective amnesia. This is the umpteenth time Esco has done something stupid. My only criticism of Cox is that he should’ve done something sooner. Others whinge why he hasn’t done it to Johnson etc. Well, if you follow the game, you’ll see that this is not just about making mistakes. It’s about attitude. None of us (apart from DOB and Carroll) have any idea what goes on behind the scenes…if you read what Cox said, he’s talked to Esco on countless occasions about things. If you think today’s pull was to do with two mistakes, you’ve missed the point. It’s about mistakes, it’s about attitude, it’s about respecting your team-mates and opposition players, it’s about respecting your senior players and coach when they give you advice etc. etc.
THE ONLY PEOPLE THROWING ANYONE UNDER THE BUS ARE BLOGGERS ON THIS SITE…AT SOME TIME OR ANOTHER, NEARLY EVERYONE ON THE BRAVES HAS BEEN THROWN UNDER A BUS.
Let’s forget about blowing up the Braves…let’s blow up this blog…kick off most of you snivelling, whimpering creatures and get some hardcore fans on here. I’m sick and tired of reading the whining nonsense most of you wan*k*ers espouse…if you’re sick of following the Braves, get off the blog…this blog is for real Braves fans, for fans who have constructive things to say (positive or negative), and for people who think DOB has a nice a*s*s
June 15th, 20091:46 am
Braves should trade Greg Norton, JoJo Reyes and Jorge Campillo to Texas for Nelson Cruz. Reyes and Campillo upgrade their pitching staff. Norton gives them a DH to replace Cruz in the lineup. No way the Rangers would turn that down!
June 15th, 20091:47 am
Want a trade that actually makes sense?
Luke Scott for Jeff Francoeur and Cody Johnson.
Scott is having his best season to date, the Orioles would be selling high. He has just 2.44 seasons of major league service time and makes 1.2 million less than Frenchy. He won’t be a free agent anytime soon although his glove work is worse than that of Francoeur.
The Orioles basically swap one outfielder for another and get a young prospect in Cody Johnson. They lose nothing as their team is going nowhere this season and gain a prospect.
Our Braves rid themselves of a once promising player and get another productive bat for the outfield, sacrifice another prospect and actually lower the team payroll while improving the offense.
June 15th, 20091:50 am
Demote Francouer. If he disagrees or whines, release/trade. So tired of spoiled kids playing a game, making millions, and whining about it. I want to see some humility from him concerning his ineptitude.
June 15th, 20091:51 am
Francoeur, Campillo, Norton and Cody Johnson for Brian Roberts and Adam Jones. That’s a deal that makes sense.
June 15th, 20091:53 am
Demoting Francoeur doesn’t accomplish anything. We have nobody at AAA or AA who can replace him. It would be different if we had a suitable alternative in the minors to bring up to replace him.
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