2:17 pm June 8, 2009, by David O'Brien
June 8th, 20094:43 pm
and just where are you hearing this from Bill in Va…your sources???
June 8th, 20094:44 pm
noahNothing against Hudson but if the Braves hope to contend I hope they don’t pencil in as their #1 a guy coming off major surgury.
youre right here, but the #1 starter label in this case is arbitrary.
and huddy wont be fresh off surgery. by april 2010, he will be about 18 months removed from his surgery, and, he will have pitched a little in 2009 and will have a full spring training.
Frenchy is a complete joke,
In a word…LEVERAGE. Braves gave up a ton for Tex because he was a superstar under team control for a year and a half. At the same time, being that Tex played college ball at GT, they were optimistic they’d be able to sign him long-term.
After Tex shot down their offer, the Braves were not going to re-sign him. He was hitting the FA market and therefore all the leverage the Braves had was gone. All the Braves could do was get a package that was better than getting two first rounders in the draft- what they would have gotten if he simply walked.
I don’t think this situation is similar at all to trading Vazquez.
RHR I wish you had not done that- spoiled the rest of my day.
And I understand the season ain’t over, just saying if we are out of it by July 31st, then these things are always possible and should be discussed…..because they make sense.
June 8th, 20094:45 pm
He has no source, he is just going off hearsay.
Bill in VA
cphizzle, I got people. They give me inside stuff. Carlos Rosa, people, Carlos Rosa.
Come July the Braves are going to be shopping everyone not named Hanson.
June 8th, 20094:46 pm
Jason Heyward update,
I saw him playing toss yesterday before the Pelicans game up here in Va….he refused to sign for some older autograph seekers saying he wasn’t feeling well. He is listed as playing for Danville but he is traveling with the Pelicans. He actually was the first base coach during the game. I asked some of the bullpen pitchers what his status was and they said he felt he was ready to play but the trainers are being overly cautious. Him, Cody, and Freddie could easily be confused for professional football players
June 8th, 20094:47 pm
Scarlett O’Hara – “Frankly my dear………. whatever”
What ever we all think, The Braves treated GLAVINE appalingly. We showed zero substance and less class then the mutts showed Willie Randolph… and that is saying something
Frank, I agree on the double-standard with Glavine/Frenchy.
The only real difference, is that there isn’t/wasn’t anybody that Frenchy’s blocking to get to the show.
That’s not to say that I’m against somebody like Brandon Jones or Diaz playing some in RF. But clearly the Braves don’t feel as highly about B. Jones as they do about Hanson, or he’d have been up to stay long ago, and been in LF or RF already.
Which is why Jeff’s days are numbered. Schafer is clearly the CF of the future with Gorkys now gone. They will do what they need to do to get him in there. McLouth is going to move to LF as soon as Heyward is ready to man RF. Not sure How I feel about an all LH outfield, with McCann and Kotchman (or Freeman) at 1B. Need to get some RH power in there somewhere, imo.
But if Heyward was as ready to play NOW, as Hanson is (in the Braves minds), Francoeur would be out of a job. Either that, or G. Anderson would have never been signed and Frenchy would still have a job.
Make that everyone not named Hanson or McCann.
Frenchy is a complete joke.
i’ve heard buster Olney who is a dumba$$ say the braves are interested in Brad Penny , and that the Red Sox have been scouting Jeff. i think its all bullsh1t. Penny make 5 mil this year and why would we want him. I have heard the Royals interested in him but i havent heard what the ideal offer would be i just read it wont be much.
June 8th, 20094:48 pm
“Trading Jeff would be a mistake. He still as wierd as it sounds still has tons of upside. AAA for a month or 2 is where he needs to be.”
“Trading Jeff would be a mistake. He still as wierd as it sounds still has tons of upside. AAA for a YEAR or 2 is where he needs to be.”
June 8th, 20094:49 pm
You know what they call pitchers who cannot get outs the second time through the lineup? Relievers. Give it a few months and you will want to package him with Frenchy.
June 8th, 20094:50 pm
I hear you. We obviously need one more bat – something, anything in RF. But I must say that looking at Phillies starting pitching and the must being muts, even our current team should be able to stay in the hunt. Braves current rotation is going to keep them in every game while phillies have to hit like hell in half their games when they don’t face putrid offenses. Anyway, it will be fascinating to see how this season shapes up and I do think that Braves are on the upswing with the recent changes.
Spinal Tap wasn’t real?
Why didnt the Braves invite Sammy Sosa to their spring training camp? Slammin Sammy has hit over 60 home runs in a single season. Sammy would have been an explosive bat in the middle of the Braves lineup. As far as I know, Sammy wants to come out of retirement and he would have been a perfect fit for the Braves. Also, we should have tried to get Barry Bonds and Gary Sheffield AS WELL. I know all three have probably done steriods, but all three were available for almost NOTHING and the Braves probably would have the best record in the majors right now.
June 8th, 20094:51 pm
Yeah that girl is crazy but I love the rookie ones from last year.
lol i like that one PWHjort… i’m trying to stay positive!! I think Jeff can find his bat but not in the majors.
Sorry, I just put Francoeur’s numbers where I think they are right now on MLB TheShow and the only guy a could get for him was a Minor League RP with very limited upside named Carlos Rosa. No way the Royals give up that much for Frenchy…no way.
DOB, make my day and say GA is in left and Diaz is in right!
June 8th, 20094:52 pm
I still don’t understand why Bobby Cox/management is too scared to send Francoeur back to the minors. Why DFA or trade him for nothing before at least seeing if he can work out some problems in the minors.
Detroit did it with Dontrelle Willis and now he is back and much improved (jury still out) but isn’t that worth a try with Francoeur?
Are they too scared to hurt his wittle feewings? (Elmer Fudd voice)
Rosa? If it’s legit, sounds about right. Not like Francouer’s going to land much. Paying one of the worst OFers in baseball $3.8 million- and RISING- is just not attractive.
Send him to Double A Mississippi for a month in hopes of straightening him out enough whereas he’ll hit enough in the couple weeks before the trade deadline that someone will give us something we can actually use.
June 8th, 20094:53 pm
Oh yeah, he will…but I guess you could say “sweating” is somewhat in my nature…
Sosa? haha that would remind me of the time we got Raul Mondesi.
June 8th, 20094:54 pm
The problem with Jeff spending any time in AAA is that you’d be paying him nearly $4 million this year to do so, and probably closer to $6 million to play in the minors next year, due to the way arbitration works. And if you do that and he finally does turn things around, guess what? He’ll be a free agent right after coming back up to the major leagues. I think trading Francoeur would be a mistake not mainly because I don’t think we could get anything for him worth having. Sadly, the only option the Braves have right now is to hope he improves, and if not non-tender him before next season (like they did with Marcus Giles).
June 8th, 20094:55 pm
Great taste with checking out Manchester Orchestra! Im a bigger fan of “Im like a virgin losing a child”, but their newest album still kicks ass. You should get Straylight Run’s new LP, I just caught their show in Minneapolis…talk about the best $20 ive spent.
June 8th, 20094:57 pm
GA last 5 games 1 for 13 (1 HR and 1 RBI)
Frenchy last 5 games 3 for 17 (1 HR and 2 RBIs)
June 8th, 20094:58 pm
The only type of trade that would work with Francoeur is a team that is psuedo-rebuilding, has a monster contract they are trying to unload (like Carlos Lee’s), and is looking to shed some payroll. The problem is, the Braves are in NO position to take on anybody’s monster contract right now. If they had a Yankees-type of cash flow, then Francoeur-Lee might make a lot of sense. But the Braves don’t, so unfortunately there is really no scenario in which trading Francoeur would work.
Today’s Trivia Question
With Johnson’s win there are now 24 pitchers with 300 or more wins. 9 of those pitchers have pitched for the Braves franchise over the years, which we all know is the longest continually running team in BB history. Can you name the 9 players. That’s the most of any team BTW. Giants are second with 7.
June 8th, 20094:59 pm
They could non-tender him. Wait for no team to sign him. And re-sign him to a minor league deal. Hypnotize him to not swing at bad pitches. And make the click for him snapping out of his hypnosis the Braves winning a world series. That’d be the most ideal scenario, I believe.
Good point about paying him $4 mil to be in the minors. Question. Does sending a player to minors (at this point in Francoeur’s career) change his earnings or is he guaranteed his major league salary even if he spends half the year in AAA?
Steve from OH
I still don’t understand why Bobby Cox/management is too scared to send Francoeur back to the minors.
I don’t think that’s an option at this point. I do think Atlanta is looking to trade him, but they’re looking for something of value for him. Sending him to the minors would destroy what little value he as left. If he’s not traded, he’s here for the rest of the season and shopped/non-tendered in the offseason.
Macon Braves (RIP)
June 8th, 20095:00 pm
we gave up a future ace, future gold glove SS with speed. Switch hitting Catcher, and another good prospect. we basially gave the rangers the #1 farm system which is what there ranked with that trade. why didnt we get atleast even half of the value we traded for him??? i will never understand that.
Calling Feliz a “future ace” is a bit of a stretch at the moment. Sure, he’s a highly rated prospect but hasn’t done anything above AA ball yet. He’s struggling so far this season in AAA if you haven’t heard.
And why didn’t the Braves get a better deal than they did for Tex? He only had 2 months left on his contract when they traded him, you don’t get a king’s ransom for a guy about to be a free agent. The price was so high on him when the Braves aquired him because he had the rest of that season plus an entire season left.(For the record, I did not like the trade when it happened and don’t like it now, but it’s not something that’s going to set the Braves back all that much with the depth they have in the minors.)
Stats on 1st player taken in drafts since 1965
Pretty interesting that the most productive are Griffey, Chipper, A-Rod, and Burrell
June 8th, 20095:01 pm
If Chipper went to plate and swung at the 1st pitch EVERY TIME. He would have the same numbers as Jeff. Chipper studies the scouting reports and video. He tries to put the pitcher in a hole and then knows what his desperate pitch is. Then he gets it and hits it. Also by taking pitches he makes the starting pitcher work harder so the team gets into the bullpen earlier. Point blank Jeff is not a team player when he is 0-3 on 6 pitches like he was at one point yesterday. I think it is flat out selfish the approach he has at the plate FLAT OUT SELFISH.
DOB, do you have any comment on the clubhouse chemistry? Would you agree with what Bill Shanks said – that Casey and Loaf only talk to each other and would both rather be in Anaheim, that Yunel only fraternizes with the Latin players, that everyone is worried/upset with the Front Office over how Smoltz and Glavine were handled, that everyone is getting fed up with Frenchy?
I mean, you’re in there every day, even if you can’t comment specifically would you agree that the team has no chemistry and that the guys don’t particularly like each other?
The problem with Jeff spending any time in AAA is that you’d be paying him nearly $4 million this year to do so, and probably closer to $6 million to play in the minors next year, due to the way arbitration works.
The 2009 cost is sunk, so it matters not a whit what uniform he’s wearing, or if he’s wearing one at all. He’s paid. The 2010 cost means nothing today, or any other day, until he’s offered after the season. If he is.
In other words, cost has nothing to do with a decision to send him to the minors, if the Braves decide to go that way.
Can a player in their arbitration years even be sent down to the minors without having to go through waivers? I didn’t think that was possible, but I could be wrong. If they can’t, they could always say Jeff has an eye problem and DL him.
And if Jeff has to go through waivers before taking a minor league assignment, aren’t the Braves still liable for his contract if he’s picked up by another team?
June 8th, 20095:03 pm
EXCELLENT post at 5:01. Most guys haven’t taken econ 101.
seems like i remember hearing that crap from you before bill in va so i will just put in where crap belongs right down the pot…flush
Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Warren Spahn, Phil Nikero, Cy Young, Lefty Grove (sp?), Kid Nichols, Charles Radborn (sp?), and Jon Clarkson.
June 8th, 20095:04 pm
Francoeur in Gwinnett would be great.
All his hometown buddies could come out and tell him how wonderful he is. It’ll be like filming a new “In Their Own Words” every home game!
Maddux, Glavine, Spahn, Cy Young, Gaylord Perry and Knucksie are all I’ve got, nolie…
I’d have to look up the other three…
Macon Braves (RIP)
Amen It’s not like Salty is hitting it big, And we tried him at first, let’s just say I’d rather have Prado at 1st full time than Salty. And we didn’t trade Hanson, it would only have been a bad trade had we traded him. How much have we heard about future aces from the Rangers? None. We keep hearing about Hanson. He had a rough outing but if anyone expects him to come out and dominant then that’s just too bad. I’m not getting on you…lol…just seeing if we share the same opinion. It’s better for him to experience failure head on then to excel then get in a funk….exhibit A) Jeff Francoeur
“Can a player in their arbitration years even be sent down to the minors without having to go through waivers? I didn’t think that was possible, but I could be wrong. If they can’t, they could always say Jeff has an eye problem and DL him.”
As long as they have options, yes. Arbitration has nothing to do with weather or not you’re able to be sent down.
June 8th, 20095:05 pm
GLAVINE, GLAVINE, GLAVINE… Plueeze. Moving right along….
June 8th, 20095:06 pm
If Jeff is sent to the minors this season, you can bet your behind that Atlanta isn’t tendering him a contract next year. Actually, at the rate things are going, that’s the most likely course anyway.
The Braves sent Frenchy to the minors last season and he made a big stink out of it and it accomplished nothing. There are only three options. He gets better and stays with the team, he gets traded, or he finishes the season and gets non-tendered.
ncscoots and Bobby – yes, we have already taken the loss “mark to market”, now we just need to take the loss for real… cut that loss now before it becomes a $6 loss or worse… even if we get squadoosh for the kid
Send him to AA now and tell him to go and if he refuses play some old fashion hardball with him
June 8th, 20095:08 pm
Why is nobody willing to suggest a straight platoon for Frenchy?
RC is right. Can’t send him to the minors for too long. Cost’s too much money, and we’d likely never see the return. Even if he did turn it around, he’d be angry enough to leave as soon as he can. Can’t trade him and get ANY value for him at this point. We could release him, but we’d still be paying him.
Why not make him the 4th OF and platoon him in RF? He’s a career .286 BA, .332 OBP, .470 SLG, .802 OPS hitter against LHP. While he’s a .258 BA, .298 OBP, .408 SLG, .707 OPS hitter against RHP.
He hits a HR ever 35.5 AB’s against RH pitching, and a HR ever 25 AB’s against LH pitching.
He’s not a bad defensive outfielder. I’m not sure he’s as good as his GG season. But he’s not Garret Anderson or Diaz out there. He can run a bit, as a pinch runner, late innings defense guy.
If we’re gonna pay him anyhow, and not get anything in return in a trade, why not MAXIMIZE his good qualities, and minimize the damage he can do in the lineup everyday? Not gonna “cost” us any less.
I just don’t understand it.
What kills me is that a guy like Klesko NEVER got a legitimate chance against LHP. Anytime a LH pitcher was brought in late in a game, he was yanked from the lineup. Never given a chance to run.
Yet, when he went to SD, he became a fine hitter against both lefties and righties. Yet Francoeur is clearly half the hitter that Klesko ever was and he can’t lose his job. Even when he is being COUNTED on to help carry the team, somthing Klesko was never needed for.
Yet Bobby gets credit for putting guys in a position to “succeed”. Why?
Charles Radbourn! Geez, how could I miss him, right? Was Lefty Grove ever a Brave? I though he was just an Athletic/Red Sawk….
MLB.com blog about the All-Star Game: You you should, should not vote for.
Hmm…look who they have listed as who you should vote for at catcher…
VOTE McCANN 2009 ALL-STAR!!!!
Great post yourself. It sucks when the 1st batter of the inning gets out on 2 or 3 pitches, then Jeff gets out on the 1st pitch. If you’re the 3rd batter of the inning, you almost have to take the 1st 2 pitches, which will be strikes down the middle because the opposing pitcher knows you don’t want him to get out of the inning having thrown less than 6 pitches.
It is kinda selfish. You gotta make the pitchers work at the major league level and wear him down so your entire lineup and see his more of his pitches, tendencies, and overall just wear him down so he’ll make mistakes later in the game.
June 8th, 20095:09 pm
I thought abritration is where u suppost to get offered a contract based on your performance, how will Jeff get a increased contract for next year if he continues his struggles.
Aww, damnit. Forgot about Gaylord Perry. I missed one of the early Boston guys, but I can’t remember which one played in the other Boston organization. I give up.
Eric from MO
June 8th, 20095:10 pm
N8-, you can’t have 45 million tied up in Vazquez, Hudson and Lowe (with KK’s money in there and NOT in the rotation),
We have it this year, only difference is Hudson will be pitching.
June 8th, 20095:12 pm
N8, I agree, he should be platooned with GA, and let Diaz play everyday at the very least.
The best option would be to send Blanco down, bring up BJones and have a BJones/Frenchy platoon. That way, you at least you have a chance to maximize BJone’s trade value, because he’s not really needed in the organization anymore either, barring injuries.
June 8th, 20095:13 pm
Salary arb ain’t that simple, man. From the Hardball Times:
“According to the Basic Agreement, an arbitrator is supposed to consider several things when deciding upon a case. Most importantly, he/she is directed to consider:
The player’s contribution to his team
His previous salary
The salaries of players in a similar class
The last two points are extremely important — in arbitration, players are not all equal. When making a case for a player, the arbitrators are instructed to consider only the salaries of players with the same amount of major league experience, or one year more.
Here is the exact wording from the current Basic Agreement regarding this point:
The arbitration panel shall, except for a Player with five or more years of Major League service, give particular attention, for comparative salary purposes, to the contracts of Players with Major League service not exceeding one annual service group above the Player’s annual service group. This shall not limit the ability of a Player or his representative, because of special accomplishment, to argue the equal relevance of salaries of Players without regard to service, and the arbitration panel shall give whatever weight to such argument as is deemed appropriate.
You may have wondered why players going through arbitration for the first time receive significantly less than players going through it for the third time. It’s because the difference is baked into the system. I was reading a review of the recent $2.5 million Marcus Giles contract in which the author expressed surprise that the Braves got such a good deal. It was a good deal for the Braves, but it made sense, given that Giles was eligible for only his first year of arbitration. That is how the system works.
As a result, there is a “natural” progression of a player’s salary in his career. For his first two or three years, he receives the major league minimum ($316,000 in 2005). He then goes through the arbitration process for three or four years (even if he doesn’t go through the process, his salary will be heavily influenced by arbitration). During those years, his salary rises from the minimum to the level of a free agent in his final arbitration year. After that, his salary is subject to the free agent market.
That is why Ramon Ortiz may make as much as Carlos Zambrano next year, and why low-budget teams sometimes trade players in their sixth year; not just because they are about to become free agents, but also because their salaries will have increased significantly since their first year of arbitration.
So when you’re reviewing player salaries, you not only need to know whether the player is a free agent, arbitration-eligible or not, but you also need to know how many years of major league service he has, if he’s going through arbitration.
As if the system wasn’t complicated enough…”
Your 5:01 p.m. If it is, its catching. The BRAVES as a team have the second worst average of pitches per AB in the majors – 3.21. Being aggressive is not enough. LIKE CHIPPER, you’ve got to know in advance when to be aggressive and when to be patient.
June 8th, 20095:14 pm
This just in. Frenchy traded to Houston for Hunter Pence.
June 8th, 20095:15 pm
Another great resource for all things front office-related is http://www.insidethemajors.com. There’s some other stuff there, but if you go back into some old posts, Bart Given does a great job explaining that kind of stuff, and stuff like DL, etc…
June 8th, 20095:17 pm
This just in. Frenchy traded to whichever team agrees to send us 3 baseballs and a rosin bag.
Bay Area Steve
This blog continues to find a way to show greatness, despite…
Great stuff folks, on the last blog about players v. owners, and the like.
Scoots, any idea as to why they don’t “go that way” (Francoeur to AAA)? And, nice to see you posting again.
SG, nice to see you posting consistently again, as well (although I can’t seem to get into the Fly stuff; my loss, I’m sure). I think what the dude was trying to say, or at least my perception of same, was better phrased by Hank’s words. It could have been handled better, but Glavine needs to graciously step aside (me paraphrasing, obviously; remember I’m too lazy to actually quote the man).
My own position, probably too close for you and DOB, to the dude you originally responded to is this: Corporations regularly treat their employees like dirt; I wouldn’t disagree that it would seem Glavine was treated like dirt, at the end. But, why is Joe Fan supposed to feel sympathy for a guy who was treated like any ol’ corporate employee, but got $140 million to do so?
As bad as Jeff has been this year, to call him selfish is an ignorant statement. He’s a guy who shows up ready to play every day, and NEVER begs out of the lineup for minor bumps and bruises. If you want to argue that he SHOULDN’T play every day I’m with you, but Bobby writes the lineup, not Jeff. And how does the fact he swings at pitches early in the count make him “selfish”. All it shows is that he’s not a very polished hitter, and based on his results, not a very good one. In no way does it make him “selfish”. In fact, many hitters who do show good plate discipline are sometimes considered “selfish” because they take walks when their team needs them to drive in runs (Adam Dunn comes to mind as a player with that stigma, although I think the line of thinking is a little bit backwards).
Either way, you can say Jeff is a terrible hitter, and overrated fielder, and a major reason this team is not living up to expectations. I agree with you on all accounts. But I have seen no evidence of him being a selfish player.
Frank from KS
June 8th, 20095:20 pm
Jeff Francoeur, right fielder for the Atlanta Braves has been told he can’t hit ML pitching and has now been relased.
More story pending.
Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
The Brad Penny rumors got me to wondering if the Braves weren’t interested in Penny as move to make a move. What I mean is they could acquire Penny which would allow them to possibly move a guy like Vasquez. Yes, the rotation would be weakened some but if Vasquez could bring a solid righthanded bat then the loss would be counteracted and could improve the overall performance of the team.
Of course, the problem is Frenchy is so bad right now that the Red Sox probably wouldn’t make the trade.
June 8th, 20095:21 pm
Thanks Steve good info. I would hate for Jeff to keep struggling and then we let him go after the season and he gets a chance elsewhere and produces above average/good numbers. Trading him would give us somthing in return but it wouldnt be a worth sh1t. The situation sucks.
He had a rough outing but if anyone expects him to come out and dominant then that’s just too bad. I’m not getting on you…lol…just seeing if we share the same opinion. It’s better for him to experience failure head on then to excel then get in a funk….exhibit A) Jeff Francoeur
I absolutely agree that Hanson should be making starts in Atlanta now. I think the Braves timing with him is perfect. As Keith Law said earlier today on Buck and Kincade, he has nothing left to prove in the minors. It’s time for him to start learning how to get major leaguers out now. And I have no problem with them waiting until now. I like that he got a little time at AAA before being brought up, plus it prevents him from becoming a Super Two guy. And like it or not, the Braves are a franchise now that watches payroll.
And the other guys argument that the Braves didn’t get half of what they gave up for Tex. I don’t agree that they got nothing for him. They got a season’s worth of games out of him (unfortunately it didn’t work out because they still didn’t make the playoff thanks to the pitching situation last year among other things) and they got a first baseman with major league experience with a great glove. Sure, he doesn’t hit like Tex, but he can sure pick it with the best of them.
June 8th, 20095:22 pm
June 8th, 20095:23 pm
“But I have seen no evidence of him being a selfish player”
when Schafer was hitting behind him, Frenchy was quoted as saying he’s struggling because he cant get good pitches to hit. How can you not get good pitches to hit, but your walks dont increase. He basically admitted to having to swing at bad pitches becuase he didnt think Schafer could get the job done. Thats being selfish in my opinion. Bobby should try Norton in LF and Diaz in RF or Blanco in one of those spots for a few games
Shane (The original)
June 8th, 20095:24 pm
Buffalo NY Braves Fan
June 8th, 20095:26 pm
I put in my 100 votes per day for McCann the last couple of days (work gives me 2 e-mail addresses, and a few more personal….)
With any luck, by the end of the month he’ll be a starter in the ASG. That ball was way foul btw, the one he hit about 2 pitches before the double. My 42″ LCD wouldn’t lie to me haha.
June 8th, 20095:27 pm
“We have it this year, only difference is Hudson will be pitching.” Eric
And how’s that lineup workin’ out for us? What’s our record? The second I hit “submit comment” I knew you’d come back with that, so I’ve been waiting for your reply.
Does Failcour have options left for the minors? Perhaps someone other than Terry Pendleton could help his mechanics, and lesser pitching might help his confidence. However, I think it is #1 lack of discipline and #2 mechanics. Hooray for Tommy Hanson…he is a positive addition, and so long Tommy Greedvine…it’s always about the money with him. Thanks Frank Wren for breaking up the Braves retirement home for the washed-up, once was, and ungrateful millionaires. Peace.
June 8th, 20095:28 pm
It’s entirely possible the Braves violated those rules in their treatment of Glavine. You say he was throwing 78 in the minors. The radar gun says he he was hitting in the mid 80s. For a pitcher that relies on location and his changeup, mid 80’s is plenty. I know the Braves management says the radar gun isn’t accurate. (AGT)
if they had scouts watching him(and can you believe that they didn’t?) and those scouts did indeed say that they thought he would be ineffective then they did not violate his rights.
Did finances also play a part? I believe they did and said so right away, but if the scouts were there and unhappy with his pitching then the Braves have a legitimate reason if likely not the only reason.
Neither one of those guys are ready to accept that they can no longer get it done, so no matter how it was handled it was not gonna turn out well. Tom was offered to retire and he refused, so you either let him pressure you into keeping him or you cut him. No way should he have been kept. I truly believe that no matter how it was worded that Tom was gonna be one p*ssed off dude.
No side is completely wrong or right, but it was a very tough decision that needed to be implemented. Too bad it didn’t go better but I think the odds of that happening were pretty slim since it is basically a dis according to how Tom would feel since he believes he can still pitch.
Great competitors “do not go easily into that good night. Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”
June 8th, 20095:29 pm
I wish the scouts watching Glavine would come watch Francouer for two or three games and then report back to Wren
June 8th, 20095:31 pm
Lineup for Los Bravos:
7. Prado, 1B
Ha, the D-Backs claimed Boyer off waivers.
June 8th, 20095:33 pm
Eric, in fairness to you and to Wren who made the decision to go with this lineup of everyday players.
If KJ, Escobar and Frenchy were doing what Wren HOPED they would do, it would have worked out. Dumping all that money into the rotation (and two closers), requires some young, cheap everyday players to step up.
They haven’t. I too thought they would (not Frenchy – though I thought it would be impossible for him to match last years output, or lack of it). But I was on the KJ bandwagon all winter. I would have traded him for a bat. But again, it was just merely a thought of trading from strength (figured Prado and Infante could handle 2B), and KJ could net us a hitter to make up for our outfield futility.
Buffalo NY Braves Fan–
Great going! I’m approaching 150 votes.
He could very well end up starting the game, though Y. Molina’s gonna continue to get votes just ’cause the thing is in St. Louis. But ya never know…
That ball was way foul btw, the one he hit about 2 pitches before the double.
OK…from our seats (in centerfield, slightly toward left), it was hard to tell. But like I said, INBD–love them RBI doubles. And how nice of him to break out of his RBI double drought with me in attendance?
June 8th, 20095:34 pm
Thanks for the lineup, Chief. Huyee…right back to the cleanup spot…
Rob (from SC)
June 8th, 20095:35 pm
0-5 almost 7 era Carlos Rosa
June 8th, 20095:36 pm
I like that lineup a lot….except for the 6 hole. Failcoeur hitting 6th? Seriously?
N8 we have added Mclouth plus we have yet to have Hudson pitch and Hanson just pitched his first game. 40% of next years rotation hasnt played.
June 8th, 20095:37 pm
ILMAO……HAHA….He’ll still get banged arounded in that ballpark…..too bad we won’t get to face him…unless that rain out….lol
Diaz continues rotting on the bench, what a surprise. This is a joke and our manager doesnt seem to care or notice take your pick
June 8th, 20095:38 pm
The only reason Francoeur is still in there is b/c Bobby Cox likes him & he’s a hometown boy. Period. Diaz would be much better in right field & could not be any worse than what we’ve got out there every night. So why not give Diaz a chance to play every day for a while? Unless you are trying to showcase #7 for a trade, and that’s not working out, is it??
Well we can’t put Kelly and Frenchy back to back…that’s just overkill, it’s enough that we have to watch them hit in the same inning. But they’d be out on 3 pitches combined.
June 8th, 20095:40 pm
CSG I love Diaz but did you see his 1st at bat yesterday? rotting away is a little strong.
June 8th, 20095:42 pm
nolie and AGT, it doesn’t matter what the scouts said. It doesn’t matter what the radar guns said.
Bottom line. Tom Glavine and the Atlanta Braves agreed to a contract that paid him 1 million dollars regardless (call it rehab pay). It called for him to receive another 1 million IF he made the roster.
At the time that this decision was needed to be made. They decided that Tommy Hanson was the better pitcher and had proved all he had to prove in AAA. It doesn’t matter if it was 1 million or 10 million owed to Glavine upon “making” the roster.
NOW, if Glavine was under the assumption (along with his agent) that it was a foregone conclusion that he was GOING to make the roster. Why not ask for that 2nd million dollars to be guaranteed as well?
RIGHT THERE is where the contract slides into the grey area. Perhaps Wren never GUARANTEED that Glavine would EVER be activated. Perhaps Glavine never ASKED if there was a chance to NOT be called up after rehabbing and some minor league starts.
Tom agreed to the contract. Unless there is a youtube clip of Wren going all Jack Bauer on Glavine’s ass, forcing him to sign that contract, I’m not sure what Glavine has to complain about.
His threatened “grievance” and public pouting is more about hurt pride, initial shock and anger, and spite, rather than the 1 million dollars. But once again, the ex-union guy is making himself look greedy and like a whiner by allowing his agent to make it be about the money.
As bad as the Braves look for the way this WAS handled, Glavine and Clifton look just as bad for how it IS getting handled now. Just like Smoltz.
Nothing like a couple of spurned “ex-girlfriend” showing up at the party making drunen fools of themselves telling everybody how poorly their boyfriends treated them.
Smoltz and Glavine should be better than that.
June 8th, 20095:43 pm
While Wheeler’s definitely a strong possibility for Braves at No. 7, there’s also a good chance he’ll be picked before that, by the Pirates or Orioles, or maybe the Giants or Padres.
Roy Clark said they have seven scenarios with which to choose at No. 7. And yes, they did scout Strasburg once, early in the season, just to do their due diligence. Roy smile when I asked if they’d, uh, considering picking him if he fell to 7 (I was also smiling when I asked).
“If he falls to our budgeted slot, we’ll consider him,” Clark said, supressing laughter.
But in all seriousness, he said there’s a lot of quality in the first 10 picks, and Braves this year aren’t looking for particular position, like they’ve done in past when aiming for, say, high school pitching, and emphasizing local kids.
“We’re going to take the best available player,” he said. “We’ve got some Georgia guys in the mix.”
But he added that he doesn’t see any Heywards in the draft this year. They got him with 14th pick. “We’d like to have someone exactly like him at 7,” Roy said, smiling as if to say, fat chance.
June 8th, 20095:44 pm
Coach if you are here – we argued yesterday about Prado vs KJ for 2nd base.. you claimed that Prado cannot hit, I that KJ was a 2nd base liability
DID YOU SEE THAT double play prado started ???
Did he mention any specific names, DOB?
June 8th, 20095:46 pm
Should we stop saying that Francoeur is “hitting” 6th tonight? What if we just say he’s “batting” 6th? Seems more accurate.
June 8th, 20095:47 pm
I’m standing at the top of the dugout steps talking to Roy Clark and Tommy Hanson comes walking up the steps. Tommy “22nd round pick” Hanson.
“Hey, Tommy,” Clark said, shaking his head. “We’re looking to get another 22nd rounder just like you, big fella.”
June 8th, 20095:48 pm
CSG I love Diaz but did you see his 1st at bat yesterday? rotting away is a little strong
Jerry, did you see any of Frenchy’s ab’s yesterday? All were worse than Diaz’s 1st AB. Frenchy saw 8 pitches in 4 AB’s yesterday, yep 4!
compared to our everyday corner OF’s, Id say rotting away is appropriate
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