hey, we did not lose any ground on the leaders. does that mean that we do not suck that bad? or does that mean that we are still in contention. How many times are we going to here from our broadcasters say “if we can stay at where we are at in the standing, we still have a chance to be there” hey guess, we suck and we will still suck in the later months
I think the hitting miseries lie in a fact that I heard on ESPN, I believe. One of the talking heads said the BRAVES were the second worst team in pitches per AB in the majors – only 3.22? pitches per AB. If true, aggressive hitting, or rather the lack of knowledge as to WHEN to be aggressive and when to be patient is sorely lacking on this club. Is the coaching staff and manager responsible for any of this situation, if its true?
In case there are any Mets’ fans lurking, today is the 65th birthday of Derrel McKinley “Bud” Harrelson, who I saw turn the double play to clinch the Eastern Division on September 24 a long time ago. I have this frightening memory for dumb stuff, and I always think of Bud on D-Day, since that’s when he was born.
Astonishing stat: Fielder’s two homers tonight gave him as many or more than any Braves player has hit at Turner this season except Kelly Johnson, who has four.
BUT DUNN’S LF DEFENSE STINKS AND LF DEFENSE IS SOOOOOOOOOOO IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!
Cubs & Reds tied up in extras. Normally I’d probably watch this, but I’m drained and saddened with baseball right now. Maybe a better word is exasperated.
Two full games after the Glavine episode, and the Braves have yet to score a run in either game. Wonder if the players are sending Braves mgmt an indirect, well conceived message that they did not appreciate the way things were handled in releasing Glavine. I wonder???
Foolish to decide that since one of the greatest closers of all time can be successful one inning at a time despite slow pitches, that a STARTER could do the same thing for 5+ innings with even worse stuff. Plus, does Glavine have a devastating change-up like Hoffman? Also, can someone point us to the last time period in which Glavine was successful?
The braves looked like a bunch of little leaguers that have not been coached on how to play the game. Are our coaches really making an impact on our players or are they there waiting to retire with Bobby? You know, bobby reminds me of my boss: old, with lots of tenure and corporate do not want to look bad and fire him. Bobby, its time to move on. Isn’t that what Wren and Schurholz said about Glavine?
HEY WREN – So……….. Glavine was not “good enough” for this team. So why are we keeping TP around? This team needs an injection of life to score runs. Make a move Mr. cutthroat!!!!!
I think I hate TP more than I do Bobby and that is a lot.
DOB, what the heck happened to my pre-America’s Funniest Home Videos post.
It was a good one. More importantly, it was extremely long.
Kind of bummed about that to be honest. Or maybe extremely irritated.
I told Jeff Francoeur, the blogger, what an idiot he is because he he didn’t get I was making a joke about the unfortunate fact that both of the teams ahead of us in the division lost before we even started play tonight. It seemed as if they hardly noticed.
I was laying on the sarcasm pretty thick as I am want to do and he acted like a bitch and I wanted to tell him to stop being a dumbass.
MARK BRADLEY’s saying TOMMY G. may take action. I say Mr. G. will find plenty of action if he takes himself to the porcelain convenience. And the relief he’s seeking.
Our offense is pretty pathetic right now. And it isn’t surprising-Kelly Johnson, Garrett Anderson, and Francoeur-3/8 of our lineup, have been almost the entire year out machines. So we rely on our best hitters being scorching hot. Right now, both McCann and Escobar are not hot. They have had weak performances in the last two series. And Chipper, with his injuries, just isn’t reliable. With Kotchman out, we really cannot be surprised at how little production we are getting.
Good news is McLouth looked really good tonight. There is little doubt in my mind (with his two hits, walk, and stolen base) that we probably would have plated at least one run if he lead off. Remember, that was Kelly who struck out with the bases loaded. Also Escobar’s base running miscue cost us men in scoring position with Chipper and Mac coming up. We reverse those two, and Esco’s single might have had McLouth at third.
But I don’t foresee any offensive production until 1) Chipper and Kotchman are both FULLY healthy, and 2) Garrett Anderson starts at least producing some power and around a .270 average (if either ever happen). Until that time, this will be a low scoring unit.
Remember when Albert Hall was going to replace Butler. Say hello to Albert (Hanson/Hall). Get back with me when he hits number 299. Chances are before five years are up he is sharing a rocking chair with Kerry Woods. Oh yeah, go to hell braves.
I was just looking at contending teams who have plenty of offense, yet could use some starting pitching. If the Toronto Blue Jays were to be serious about wanting to upgrade their starting pitching, they could be someone the Braves could deal with. If I was Frank Wren, I’d contact the Blue Jays and expressing an interest in working out a trade involving their right fielder Nelson Cruz and the Braves’s Javier Vazquez. A package of Javier Vazquez and Jeff Franceour might entice them to give up Nelson Cruz. I say “might” because Nelson Cruz is a fantastic power hitting right handed right fielder. Dude can flat out hit, has speed, and a good throwing arm. However, they need some starting pitching. Vazquez would give them a really good arm to join Roy Halladay in the rotation.
Giving up Vazquez would be a steep price, however in order to get quality, you need to give up quality. Cruz is eligible for salary arbitration next year, meaning the Braves will have him under contract for at least the next 3 years. I know that it would drastically increase the Blue Jays payroll. However they are in position to compete in the AL East. They need starting pitching. If the Braves could somehow swing that deal, that would give the Braves even more financial flexibility to improve the team. Imagine Nelson Cruz in this line-up:
1. Nate McLouth CF
2. Yunel Escobar SS
3. Chipper Jones 3rd
4. Nelson Cruz RF
5. Brian McCann C
6. Anderson/Diaz LF
7. Kelly Johnson 2nd
8. Casey Kotchman 1st.
9. pitcher P
That has the makings of a potent line-up. Plus it would add some much needed balance to the line-up.
No more bobby- lets ask DOB if can create an opinion poll on what moves needs to be made
Fire Bobby
Retire Bobby
Fire TP
Retire Tp
Trade our whole farm team for real players and release our fakers
I just got home and thought I was seeing the results from last night. Holy cow.
It’s time to pull the lineup from a hat, boys and girls. Cause we ain’t found one that works yet. I would move KJ to 7 or 8, and bat Frenchy 4th for a while. I know, I know, but he is hitting over 400 in that spot.
Hope for tommy hanson’s sake he can hit a couple bombs tommorrow or he’s gonna lose. 22 2/3 in since we scored last!we got to dump this team and start over
I will say this-boy is this team, and this fan base, every in need of an electric performance from Hanson tomorrow. That’s the kind of thing that could either be a fresh and clean break everyone is excited about, or a further step into the muck that’s looking pretty thick right now.
The braves looked like a bunch of little leaguers that have not been coached on how to play the game. Are our coaches really making an impact on our players or are they there waiting to retire with Bobby? You know, bobby reminds me of my boss: old, with lots of tenure and corporate do not want to look bad and fire him. Bobby, its time to move on. Isn’t that what Wren and Schurholz said about Glavine?
Please. These are grown ass men being paid millions (well, most of them) to play ball. You think they got to this point and still need “coaching”?
My boss has a general idea of what I do all day but she doesn’t stand over me and force me to do this or that. So is she responsible when I mess up?
Hint: The answer is no.
Granted if I were to mess up a million times, every day, over and over again, she may speak to me about it but she can’t MAKE me not mess up…that’s all on me. I can change or be fired. And as far as I know, none of the Braves coaches have the ability to “fire” any of the players. And all Wren can do once the roster is set is look to the minors for a replacement or to the bench for a replacement, or make a trade. All 3 things have been done thus far and so far the results are no different. It’s time to stop blaming Bobby or TP or Wren and start blaming the men on the field.
I love the idea of moving McLouth to leadoff and getting another power bat. Just one problem– Someone would get fired for shipping Cruz and replacing him with Frenchy. Why would they do that? We’re not giving anything that’s considered a “Murderer’s row”.
RHR, good post. But unfortunately, some people either just don’t get it or are desperate for something to whine about. Glad there are a group of solid regulars on here who can still make for some great conversation.
we can still add one more bat but that still will not solve all the problems. The manager will obviously not be fired, but it is time for Terry Pendleton to bear some responsibility for the chronic hitting woes the braves have had. I wonder if Ned Yost would be a hitting coach. The Braves need someone to light a fire under them.
Epinephrine……………You are correct, I’m playing in a couple of online poker tournaments while trying to type this out. My bad.
Even though I was wrong about which team Nelson Cruz plays for (he plays right field for the Rangers, not the Blue Jays), the fact that the Texas Rangers are in first place, and need pitching…..makes the posting I made make sense for them as well. They are 3 1/2 games ahead of the Angels. It is a given that the Angels be active in the trade market and make a run at the Rangers. Just like the Blue Jays, the Rangers can score runs. However other than Kevin Millwood, their starters are struggling to get deep into games. They could use a Javier Vazquez to solidify their starting rotation, just like we need Nelson Cruz to add some punch to our offense. The trade would be a win win for both the Braves and the Rangers.
cabravesfan – I waited several days to watch last week’s episode. I have been known to record final episodes and wait a long time to watch – most notably, China Beach, which took me about two years to watch the last six episodes (I will admit an unhealthy attachment to Dana Delany (good Irish boy that I am), which was not enough to watch the last season of Desperate Housewives). I felt like if I didn’t watch the final episodes, it wasn’t really cancelled.
Eunell thrown out at 2nd on a single to right. MCann triples(a gift) with no outs only to be thrown out at home running when he didn’t have to. THese guys invent ways to not score. The most inept scoring Braves team of all time. Yeh, maybe some of those 70 and 80 teams were as bad but those teams didn’t have quite the talent this team has. How do you get 11 men on base and not score?
Shoeless Joe…it isnt so much that the Rangers would “crave” Franceour. It’s the fact that they desperately need a starter pitcher who can go 6-7 innings and give them a chance to win ballgames. Also, with if they were to trade Cruz to the Braves, that would create an opening in right field for the Rangers. I’m just speculating here. Maybe the will see Franceour as being a “serviceable” right fielder…..given that they have a strong need for starting pitching. Remember, you have to give up quality to get quality.
RHR-My boss has a general idea of what I do all day but she doesn’t stand over me and force me to do this or that. So is she responsible when I mess up?
Yes, If I mess up, I take the blame but when I am sucessful he gets all the credit by doing nothing.
Coaches and Managers do have influence on performance.
In baseball, its the simple fundamentals. if a pithcers is breezing through the line up when our batters are swing at the first pitches, does it make sense to take a couple of pitches and make the pitcher work a little harder to get our players out?
when escobar got thrown out at second, where was the 1st base coach assisting him on where the ball was going to land?
when fielder hit his second homerun, where was the advice to pitch around him?
Bobby has influence over the line up, actually he creates the line up. Has this lineup worked for us thus far? Yes players are also to blame, you can’t really fire a player. does firing coach make more of an impact on players, absolutely.
So I had to add the “J” to the end of my name because there was a someone with the screen name “Mike” on here a few days ago that was a real idiot and he was pissing people off.
I havent posted lately and I wanted to chime in on the recent goings on…
1. Excited about Hanson. Enough said.
2. The Glavine thing sucks. I agree that Hanson will be the better option, but the Braves should have handled Glavine better. He deserved better. Regardless of what he has done in the past, he worked his butt off for a chance to come back and finish his career in a respectable fashion on his terms with his team, and the Braves took that from him. We should have just been honest with him when he re injured himself that we were counting on him earlier in the year and that by the time he is ready, Hanson will be and they want to get Hanson started. Then offered him a bullpen spot or a coaching spot, or to just retire. But certainly not at the last minute when Glavine thinks he has finally made it back. I have been happy overall with FW ’s moves, but his employee and public relations suck big time. He has completely mishandled 2 Braves icons.
3. Like the McLouth move. I feel it helps our club now and in the future. Too bad he is also in a slump.
4. This offense is TERRIBLE! No one is having any impact. We have been held scoreless 2 nights in a row against the Brewers. Its too bad that this pitching staff has to deal with this offense. If we had even half the offense of the Phils, we’d be in first place. I am so disappointed in the whole team offensively. It seems that every time I am watching a game or reading about sports, that some other ballplayer has more homers that ANY of our guys. We have NO POWER…its embarrassing. I am a huge Chipper fan, but I am highly concerned. He seems to be out more than usual. We cant count on him, and all he is doing is hitting enough singles to be at .300. I’d rather he hit .280 but have twice as many homers. Home runs impact games. Even our regular 25 home run guys are on pace to hit like 15-18. This whole team is in an offensive toilet. Something drastic has to take place, and its not trading for guys like McLouth.
This team is killing me. But I still love ‘em. GO BRAVES!!!
RHR, sorry but your boss is responsible for you and the rest of her employees. if you mess up and she fails to take action, she can and should be replaced. since i am a branch chief, my responsibility is to manage my employees, if they screw up and i fail to do something about it, i will have to face the consequences. as far as i am concerned, this team is underperforming. of course, a lot of it has to do with the front office, since it is their responsibility to put a decent team on the field. so wren can JS can hit the road, too.
N Nine…………again, getting Javier Vazquez would be the CENTERPIECE the trade for the Texas Rangers, as would getting Nelson Cruz be the centerpiece for the Braves. The Braves throwing Franceour into the trade would give the Rangers a “serviceable” right fielder to replace Cruz.
I HAVE FINALLY PIECED TOGETHER WHATS WRONG WITH THE BRAVES. THREE INDIVIDUALS, BOBBY COX, KELLY JOHNSON AND YUNEL ESCOBAR.COX DON’T CARE NO MORE WHETHER THE BRAVES WIN OR LOSE. HE IS JUST RIDING OUT THE SUNSET. WITH PAST ACCOMPLISHMENTS HE KNOWS HE WILL PROBABLY MAKE THE HALL OF FAME. HE CONSTANTLY PLAYS KELLY JOHNSON WHO IS A LOSER. HE ONLY HITS IN BLOWOUTS FOR THE BRAVES. HIS DEFENSE IS TERRIBLE. ESCOBAR IS THE SAME WAY. HIS STUBBORNEST CONTINUES TO PLAY JOHNSON AND ESCOBAR BUT SENDS PLAYERS LIKE BRANDON JONES DOWN. UNLESS COX BEGIN TO CARE AGAIN WE MIGHT NEED TO GO A ANOTHER DIRECTION AT MANAGER. HE USES HIS HEART WITH HIS DRINKING BUDDIES INSTEAD OF HIS HEAD.
BRaves hitter seemingly mesmerized at the plate. I mean Suppan is a good pitcher but how many fastballs seemingly down the middle do you need to take from him? Was every hitter looking for offspeed stuff or what? All night long fastball strike 1, fastball strike 2, then curveball or changeup in the dirt or off the plate(repeat 3 times).
I haven’t delved into it enough to know if winning a grievance would reinstate Glavine to the team.
If so, it’s gonna be fun to watch the first time he shows his face at Turner Field. It will be the loudest crowd we’ve ever heard, and I don’t think it’ll be cheers!
Brian………if the Braves were fortunate enough to trade Javier Vazquez for Nelson Cruz…..the Braves would certainly not contact Glavine. They would either put Kris Medlen in the 5th spot in the rotation…or…they would acquire a serviceable starter from another team. But not Glavine.
“WTF? NO. I mean, he’s played like 2 games there. You …. you’re not really going to throw out “he’s hitting 400 in that spot” based on 2 games, right?”
Like it’s going to keep us from scoring for another 20 innings of so? Didn’t mean to get your dander up. Do you think it could get any worse? I don’t. Throw the stats away. Pull it from a hat. I’m serious, and it’s been done before. I dont care, but do something!
RHR – just ignore all the posts – well. I guess you’re right – you might as well bail out (I’m amazed I’ve made it five hours ignoring everyone except cab and you).
Can anyone provide a stat? I’m looking for the Braves team Batting Average rankings, year by year, with Pendleton being their hitting coach. Just curious how bad that rank would be.
I proposed that same idea earlier this week with Smoak as a PTBNL and people on this blog shot it down even with Smoak added to the deal! Most people were saying they didn’t want to trade Vazquez at all
Thanks Steve. I’m beginning to wonder if the Braves should fire TP…. It is getting frustrating watching this team day in and day out!! Beginning to think ‘09 is a lost cause!
Truth, we all have to remember the Wild Card. There is not a team that I can see that is going to run away with that thing. A move or two, and who knows?
1,237 comments Add your comment
Roja
June 6th, 2009
10:10 pm
10 pitches.
RHR
June 6th, 2009
10:10 pm
11 men left on base tonight. 8 LOB last night.
Virginia Ranger
June 6th, 2009
10:10 pm
BOO
McFann :Ô:
June 6th, 2009
10:11 pm
Well, that was bad.
Put up a better show tomorrow, Braves…though I just know they’re gonna go with their um…other lineup…
I am tire of the supporting the braves
June 6th, 2009
10:11 pm
hey, we did not lose any ground on the leaders. does that mean that we do not suck that bad? or does that mean that we are still in contention. How many times are we going to here from our broadcasters say “if we can stay at where we are at in the standing, we still have a chance to be there” hey guess, we suck and we will still suck in the later months
JD
June 6th, 2009
10:12 pm
Goodnight, Joe
richbrave
June 6th, 2009
10:12 pm
I think the hitting miseries lie in a fact that I heard on ESPN, I believe. One of the talking heads said the BRAVES were the second worst team in pitches per AB in the majors – only 3.22? pitches per AB. If true, aggressive hitting, or rather the lack of knowledge as to WHEN to be aggressive and when to be patient is sorely lacking on this club. Is the coaching staff and manager responsible for any of this situation, if its true?
TNJeff
June 6th, 2009
10:12 pm
this team has a will to lose and lose they will
Vinings Jim
June 6th, 2009
10:12 pm
In case there are any Mets’ fans lurking, today is the 65th birthday of Derrel McKinley “Bud” Harrelson, who I saw turn the double play to clinch the Eastern Division on September 24 a long time ago. I have this frightening memory for dumb stuff, and I always think of Bud on D-Day, since that’s when he was born.
Chip Caray
June 6th, 2009
10:12 pm
Astonishing stat: Fielder’s two homers tonight gave him as many or more than any Braves player has hit at Turner this season except Kelly Johnson, who has four.
BUT DUNN’S LF DEFENSE STINKS AND LF DEFENSE IS SOOOOOOOOOOO IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!
McFann :Ô:
June 6th, 2009
10:12 pm
StingerSplash I called up a Hogan’s Heroes episode on tvland.com
I love that show.
Which one’d ya pull up?
Mitchell
June 6th, 2009
10:12 pm
America’s Funniest Home Videos?
We just watched that.
Oh I deserve a medal for that one.
JD
June 6th, 2009
10:12 pm
Don’t worry…the Braves will again inexplicably put up double digits tomorrow.
Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
June 6th, 2009
10:12 pm
According to Game Day, Hoffman didn’t throw a single pitch faster than 85 mph that inning. Yet his ERA so far this season is 0.00.
Tell me again, Wren, about how Glavine would not have been successful.
Interested Observer
June 6th, 2009
10:13 pm
Tomorrow the bat boys should hide all of the Braves bats and replace them with the Brian McCann replica bats. Couldn’t hurt.
TNJeff
June 6th, 2009
10:14 pm
Glavine’s gonna sue the team – money, money, money
Worst of luck to this Grade A JERK
bigcooterb
June 6th, 2009
10:14 pm
To all of you trade masters, who do you think the Braves have that other teams would want except for McCann and maybe a couple of pitchers?
Mixxo
June 6th, 2009
10:16 pm
Cubs & Reds tied up in extras. Normally I’d probably watch this, but I’m drained and saddened with baseball right now. Maybe a better word is exasperated.
Can we win tomorrow? Please!!
Jerry
June 6th, 2009
10:16 pm
Nate bigcoot and thats it
RHR
June 6th, 2009
10:17 pm
I can’t think of anyone else, bigcooterb.
Del
June 6th, 2009
10:17 pm
Two full games after the Glavine episode, and the Braves have yet to score a run in either game. Wonder if the players are sending Braves mgmt an indirect, well conceived message that they did not appreciate the way things were handled in releasing Glavine. I wonder???
learner
June 6th, 2009
10:17 pm
Foolish to decide that since one of the greatest closers of all time can be successful one inning at a time despite slow pitches, that a STARTER could do the same thing for 5+ innings with even worse stuff. Plus, does Glavine have a devastating change-up like Hoffman? Also, can someone point us to the last time period in which Glavine was successful?
lagnamor
June 6th, 2009
10:17 pm
99709—You meant Government Motors, the General word is no more.
Vinings Jim
June 6th, 2009
10:17 pm
cabravesfan – I suggest “Pushing Daisies.”
I am tire of the supporting the braves
June 6th, 2009
10:18 pm
The braves looked like a bunch of little leaguers that have not been coached on how to play the game. Are our coaches really making an impact on our players or are they there waiting to retire with Bobby? You know, bobby reminds me of my boss: old, with lots of tenure and corporate do not want to look bad and fire him. Bobby, its time to move on. Isn’t that what Wren and Schurholz said about Glavine?
No More Bobby
June 6th, 2009
10:19 pm
HEY WREN – So……….. Glavine was not “good enough” for this team. So why are we keeping TP around? This team needs an injection of life to score runs. Make a move Mr. cutthroat!!!!!
I think I hate TP more than I do Bobby and that is a lot.
brent a.
June 6th, 2009
10:19 pm
Del,
No, I do not believe that these guys are intentionally getting shut out.
But, please let me know if you have any evidence to support that they are.
RHR
June 6th, 2009
10:19 pm
I’m glad I had a great day out on the lake and then later at the mall, otherwise this game would’ve sucked a lot more lol.
Nate McLouth
June 6th, 2009
10:20 pm
IM A CELEBRITY GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mitchell
June 6th, 2009
10:20 pm
DOB, what the heck happened to my pre-America’s Funniest Home Videos post.
It was a good one. More importantly, it was extremely long.
Kind of bummed about that to be honest. Or maybe extremely irritated.
I told Jeff Francoeur, the blogger, what an idiot he is because he he didn’t get I was making a joke about the unfortunate fact that both of the teams ahead of us in the division lost before we even started play tonight. It seemed as if they hardly noticed.
I was laying on the sarcasm pretty thick as I am want to do and he acted like a bitch and I wanted to tell him to stop being a dumbass.
Best to perhaps let it go.
What a game this baseball is.
richbrave
June 6th, 2009
10:20 pm
MARK BRADLEY’s saying TOMMY G. may take action. I say Mr. G. will find plenty of action if he takes himself to the porcelain convenience. And the relief he’s seeking.
JasonInFL
June 6th, 2009
10:20 pm
We have to go on a run soon! Remember when FW was fired in Baltimore because of the way he treated Ripken? Maybe he just has something against HOFers.
Epinephrine
June 6th, 2009
10:21 pm
Our offense is pretty pathetic right now. And it isn’t surprising-Kelly Johnson, Garrett Anderson, and Francoeur-3/8 of our lineup, have been almost the entire year out machines. So we rely on our best hitters being scorching hot. Right now, both McCann and Escobar are not hot. They have had weak performances in the last two series. And Chipper, with his injuries, just isn’t reliable. With Kotchman out, we really cannot be surprised at how little production we are getting.
Good news is McLouth looked really good tonight. There is little doubt in my mind (with his two hits, walk, and stolen base) that we probably would have plated at least one run if he lead off. Remember, that was Kelly who struck out with the bases loaded. Also Escobar’s base running miscue cost us men in scoring position with Chipper and Mac coming up. We reverse those two, and Esco’s single might have had McLouth at third.
But I don’t foresee any offensive production until 1) Chipper and Kotchman are both FULLY healthy, and 2) Garrett Anderson starts at least producing some power and around a .270 average (if either ever happen). Until that time, this will be a low scoring unit.
tashunka
June 6th, 2009
10:21 pm
Remember when Albert Hall was going to replace Butler. Say hello to Albert (Hanson/Hall). Get back with me when he hits number 299. Chances are before five years are up he is sharing a rocking chair with Kerry Woods. Oh yeah, go to hell braves.
Paul Lentz
June 6th, 2009
10:21 pm
I was just looking at contending teams who have plenty of offense, yet could use some starting pitching. If the Toronto Blue Jays were to be serious about wanting to upgrade their starting pitching, they could be someone the Braves could deal with. If I was Frank Wren, I’d contact the Blue Jays and expressing an interest in working out a trade involving their right fielder Nelson Cruz and the Braves’s Javier Vazquez. A package of Javier Vazquez and Jeff Franceour might entice them to give up Nelson Cruz. I say “might” because Nelson Cruz is a fantastic power hitting right handed right fielder. Dude can flat out hit, has speed, and a good throwing arm. However, they need some starting pitching. Vazquez would give them a really good arm to join Roy Halladay in the rotation.
Giving up Vazquez would be a steep price, however in order to get quality, you need to give up quality. Cruz is eligible for salary arbitration next year, meaning the Braves will have him under contract for at least the next 3 years. I know that it would drastically increase the Blue Jays payroll. However they are in position to compete in the AL East. They need starting pitching. If the Braves could somehow swing that deal, that would give the Braves even more financial flexibility to improve the team. Imagine Nelson Cruz in this line-up:
1. Nate McLouth CF
2. Yunel Escobar SS
3. Chipper Jones 3rd
4. Nelson Cruz RF
5. Brian McCann C
6. Anderson/Diaz LF
7. Kelly Johnson 2nd
8. Casey Kotchman 1st.
9. pitcher P
That has the makings of a potent line-up. Plus it would add some much needed balance to the line-up.
I am tire of the supporting the braves
June 6th, 2009
10:21 pm
No more bobby- lets ask DOB if can create an opinion poll on what moves needs to be made
Fire Bobby
Retire Bobby
Fire TP
Retire Tp
Trade our whole farm team for real players and release our fakers
lexbrave
June 6th, 2009
10:22 pm
i think chipper got dizzy from turning around too quick to head back out to the field.
cabravesfan
June 6th, 2009
10:23 pm
Vinings Jim-
That’s actually a good call- have the last episode tivoed…along with the latest Primeval which is excellent
DAM
June 6th, 2009
10:23 pm
paul … nelson cruz plays for the rangers.
Ripped Again
June 6th, 2009
10:23 pm
Just face it no playoffs this year ,and another forth place finish in the east (maybe if last behind the Nats) lol
Epinephrine
June 6th, 2009
10:24 pm
Uh, Paul Lentz, you know Nelson Cruz plays for the Texas Rangers right?
SoWeGa Fanatic
June 6th, 2009
10:25 pm
I just got home and thought I was seeing the results from last night. Holy cow.
It’s time to pull the lineup from a hat, boys and girls. Cause we ain’t found one that works yet. I would move KJ to 7 or 8, and bat Frenchy 4th for a while. I know, I know, but he is hitting over 400 in that spot.
Florida Evans
June 6th, 2009
10:26 pm
“Damn” ! “Damn” ! “Damn” !
oldschool
June 6th, 2009
10:27 pm
Hope for tommy hanson’s sake he can hit a couple bombs tommorrow or he’s gonna lose. 22 2/3 in since we scored last!we got to dump this team and start over
Epinephrine
June 6th, 2009
10:27 pm
I will say this-boy is this team, and this fan base, every in need of an electric performance from Hanson tomorrow. That’s the kind of thing that could either be a fresh and clean break everyone is excited about, or a further step into the muck that’s looking pretty thick right now.
CT in AL
June 6th, 2009
10:27 pm
Can the Braves and the Nationals possibly merge? together, we could stay ahead of the Mighty Marlins and might could actually score every now and then
RHR
June 6th, 2009
10:29 pm
The braves looked like a bunch of little leaguers that have not been coached on how to play the game. Are our coaches really making an impact on our players or are they there waiting to retire with Bobby? You know, bobby reminds me of my boss: old, with lots of tenure and corporate do not want to look bad and fire him. Bobby, its time to move on. Isn’t that what Wren and Schurholz said about Glavine?
Please. These are grown ass men being paid millions (well, most of them) to play ball. You think they got to this point and still need “coaching”?
My boss has a general idea of what I do all day but she doesn’t stand over me and force me to do this or that. So is she responsible when I mess up?
Hint: The answer is no.
Granted if I were to mess up a million times, every day, over and over again, she may speak to me about it but she can’t MAKE me not mess up…that’s all on me. I can change or be fired. And as far as I know, none of the Braves coaches have the ability to “fire” any of the players. And all Wren can do once the roster is set is look to the minors for a replacement or to the bench for a replacement, or make a trade. All 3 things have been done thus far and so far the results are no different. It’s time to stop blaming Bobby or TP or Wren and start blaming the men on the field.
N Nine
June 6th, 2009
10:29 pm
Paul Lentz__
I love the idea of moving McLouth to leadoff and getting another power bat. Just one problem– Someone would get fired for shipping Cruz and replacing him with Frenchy. Why would they do that? We’re not giving anything that’s considered a “Murderer’s row”.
Shoeless Joe
June 6th, 2009
10:30 pm
Paul Lentz:
Why would Toronto want anything to do with Frenchie and his +$3MM salary?
RHR
June 6th, 2009
10:31 pm
Frenchy 4th for a while. I know, I know, but he is hitting over 400 in that spot.
WTF? NO. I mean, he’s played like 2 games there. You …. you’re not really going to throw out “he’s hitting 400 in that spot” based on 2 games, right?
No More Bobby
June 6th, 2009
10:31 pm
a643dp – Your lineup is wrong. Dont you know Ronnie Milsap bats cleanup!!!
Steve from OH
June 6th, 2009
10:32 pm
RHR, good post. But unfortunately, some people either just don’t get it or are desperate for something to whine about. Glad there are a group of solid regulars on here who can still make for some great conversation.
Jukeandjive
June 6th, 2009
10:33 pm
Kelly Johnson stinks as a leadoff hitter! Braves expecting different results= INSANITY!!!
brian
June 6th, 2009
10:34 pm
we can still add one more bat but that still will not solve all the problems. The manager will obviously not be fired, but it is time for Terry Pendleton to bear some responsibility for the chronic hitting woes the braves have had. I wonder if Ned Yost would be a hitting coach. The Braves need someone to light a fire under them.
Paul Lentz
June 6th, 2009
10:34 pm
Epinephrine……………You are correct, I’m playing in a couple of online poker tournaments while trying to type this out. My bad.
Even though I was wrong about which team Nelson Cruz plays for (he plays right field for the Rangers, not the Blue Jays), the fact that the Texas Rangers are in first place, and need pitching…..makes the posting I made make sense for them as well. They are 3 1/2 games ahead of the Angels. It is a given that the Angels be active in the trade market and make a run at the Rangers. Just like the Blue Jays, the Rangers can score runs. However other than Kevin Millwood, their starters are struggling to get deep into games. They could use a Javier Vazquez to solidify their starting rotation, just like we need Nelson Cruz to add some punch to our offense. The trade would be a win win for both the Braves and the Rangers.
JD
June 6th, 2009
10:34 pm
Coaches are not supposed to be your best friends. They’re supposed to
1) Step on your toes
2) Fire you up
3) Tell you when you do something stupid, and work to fix it
I don’t see ANY of that from our coaches. I just see a lifeless team that keeps making the same stupid mistakes.
Vinings Jim
June 6th, 2009
10:35 pm
cabravesfan – I waited several days to watch last week’s episode. I have been known to record final episodes and wait a long time to watch – most notably, China Beach, which took me about two years to watch the last six episodes (I will admit an unhealthy attachment to Dana Delany (good Irish boy that I am), which was not enough to watch the last season of Desperate Housewives). I felt like if I didn’t watch the final episodes, it wasn’t really cancelled.
brian
June 6th, 2009
10:35 pm
Kelly needs to hit 6th where he can be successful. As everyone has said here put McLouth in the leadoff spot
McLouth
Yunel
Chipper
McCann/Ross
Anderson/Diaz
Kelly
Frenchy
Kotchman
P
monty
June 6th, 2009
10:36 pm
Eunell thrown out at 2nd on a single to right. MCann triples(a gift) with no outs only to be thrown out at home running when he didn’t have to. THese guys invent ways to not score. The most inept scoring Braves team of all time. Yeh, maybe some of those 70 and 80 teams were as bad but those teams didn’t have quite the talent this team has. How do you get 11 men on base and not score?
Chip Caray
June 6th, 2009
10:36 pm
…bat Frenchy 4th for a while. I know, I know, but he is hitting over 400 in that spot.
Even I know that statement is beyond stupid.
Steve from OH
June 6th, 2009
10:36 pm
Penguins going headhunting, I see…
brian
June 6th, 2009
10:36 pm
they can trade Vazquez for Cruz then resign Glavine to fill the 5th spot in the rotation. Yeah – bet that will happen
Paul Lentz
June 6th, 2009
10:37 pm
Shoeless Joe…it isnt so much that the Rangers would “crave” Franceour. It’s the fact that they desperately need a starter pitcher who can go 6-7 innings and give them a chance to win ballgames. Also, with if they were to trade Cruz to the Braves, that would create an opening in right field for the Rangers. I’m just speculating here. Maybe the will see Franceour as being a “serviceable” right fielder…..given that they have a strong need for starting pitching. Remember, you have to give up quality to get quality.
Supes
June 6th, 2009
10:38 pm
Well, no pressure Tommy Hanson!
Can’t give up any runs tomorrow, or you know this inept Braves offense will choke as usual!
O'brien
June 6th, 2009
10:38 pm
I know all the blame does not fall on TP, but at what point do the Braves let him go and give somebody else another chance?
Yes, hitters have to go out and execute, but we can’t replace all the hitters. However, we can replace the hitting coach.
Why are the Braves so loyal to TP, but not as loyal to former players?
sidslidkid
June 6th, 2009
10:39 pm
cabravesfan & Vinings Jim need to get a room
Ripped Again
June 6th, 2009
10:39 pm
Brain Glavin would tell the Braves to kiss his azz if they called him
I am tire of the supporting the braves
June 6th, 2009
10:39 pm
RHR-My boss has a general idea of what I do all day but she doesn’t stand over me and force me to do this or that. So is she responsible when I mess up?
Yes, If I mess up, I take the blame but when I am sucessful he gets all the credit by doing nothing.
Coaches and Managers do have influence on performance.
In baseball, its the simple fundamentals. if a pithcers is breezing through the line up when our batters are swing at the first pitches, does it make sense to take a couple of pitches and make the pitcher work a little harder to get our players out?
when escobar got thrown out at second, where was the 1st base coach assisting him on where the ball was going to land?
when fielder hit his second homerun, where was the advice to pitch around him?
Bobby has influence over the line up, actually he creates the line up. Has this lineup worked for us thus far? Yes players are also to blame, you can’t really fire a player. does firing coach make more of an impact on players, absolutely.
RHR
June 6th, 2009
10:39 pm
Oh good lord. I’m getting off here before my head explodes.
gasper's anonymous to Kung Fu
June 6th, 2009
10:40 pm
Another one bites the dust.
Mike J
June 6th, 2009
10:40 pm
So I had to add the “J” to the end of my name because there was a someone with the screen name “Mike” on here a few days ago that was a real idiot and he was pissing people off.
I havent posted lately and I wanted to chime in on the recent goings on…
1. Excited about Hanson. Enough said.
2. The Glavine thing sucks. I agree that Hanson will be the better option, but the Braves should have handled Glavine better. He deserved better. Regardless of what he has done in the past, he worked his butt off for a chance to come back and finish his career in a respectable fashion on his terms with his team, and the Braves took that from him. We should have just been honest with him when he re injured himself that we were counting on him earlier in the year and that by the time he is ready, Hanson will be and they want to get Hanson started. Then offered him a bullpen spot or a coaching spot, or to just retire. But certainly not at the last minute when Glavine thinks he has finally made it back. I have been happy overall with FW ’s moves, but his employee and public relations suck big time. He has completely mishandled 2 Braves icons.
3. Like the McLouth move. I feel it helps our club now and in the future. Too bad he is also in a slump.
4. This offense is TERRIBLE! No one is having any impact. We have been held scoreless 2 nights in a row against the Brewers. Its too bad that this pitching staff has to deal with this offense. If we had even half the offense of the Phils, we’d be in first place. I am so disappointed in the whole team offensively. It seems that every time I am watching a game or reading about sports, that some other ballplayer has more homers that ANY of our guys. We have NO POWER…its embarrassing. I am a huge Chipper fan, but I am highly concerned. He seems to be out more than usual. We cant count on him, and all he is doing is hitting enough singles to be at .300. I’d rather he hit .280 but have twice as many homers. Home runs impact games. Even our regular 25 home run guys are on pace to hit like 15-18. This whole team is in an offensive toilet. Something drastic has to take place, and its not trading for guys like McLouth.
This team is killing me. But I still love ‘em. GO BRAVES!!!
Baracked the vote!
June 6th, 2009
10:40 pm
RHR, sorry but your boss is responsible for you and the rest of her employees. if you mess up and she fails to take action, she can and should be replaced. since i am a branch chief, my responsibility is to manage my employees, if they screw up and i fail to do something about it, i will have to face the consequences. as far as i am concerned, this team is underperforming. of course, a lot of it has to do with the front office, since it is their responsibility to put a decent team on the field. so wren can JS can hit the road, too.
Paul Lentz
June 6th, 2009
10:40 pm
N Nine…………again, getting Javier Vazquez would be the CENTERPIECE the trade for the Texas Rangers, as would getting Nelson Cruz be the centerpiece for the Braves. The Braves throwing Franceour into the trade would give the Rangers a “serviceable” right fielder to replace Cruz.
bravos2249
June 6th, 2009
10:40 pm
Could Cameron be suspended? He bumped the umps hat off.
cdog
June 6th, 2009
10:42 pm
I HAVE FINALLY PIECED TOGETHER WHATS WRONG WITH THE BRAVES. THREE INDIVIDUALS, BOBBY COX, KELLY JOHNSON AND YUNEL ESCOBAR.COX DON’T CARE NO MORE WHETHER THE BRAVES WIN OR LOSE. HE IS JUST RIDING OUT THE SUNSET. WITH PAST ACCOMPLISHMENTS HE KNOWS HE WILL PROBABLY MAKE THE HALL OF FAME. HE CONSTANTLY PLAYS KELLY JOHNSON WHO IS A LOSER. HE ONLY HITS IN BLOWOUTS FOR THE BRAVES. HIS DEFENSE IS TERRIBLE. ESCOBAR IS THE SAME WAY. HIS STUBBORNEST CONTINUES TO PLAY JOHNSON AND ESCOBAR BUT SENDS PLAYERS LIKE BRANDON JONES DOWN. UNLESS COX BEGIN TO CARE AGAIN WE MIGHT NEED TO GO A ANOTHER DIRECTION AT MANAGER. HE USES HIS HEART WITH HIS DRINKING BUDDIES INSTEAD OF HIS HEAD.
cricket
June 6th, 2009
10:42 pm
RHR,
Solid post at 10:29 pm.
monty
June 6th, 2009
10:42 pm
BRaves hitter seemingly mesmerized at the plate. I mean Suppan is a good pitcher but how many fastballs seemingly down the middle do you need to take from him? Was every hitter looking for offspeed stuff or what? All night long fastball strike 1, fastball strike 2, then curveball or changeup in the dirt or off the plate(repeat 3 times).
Shamus Thacker
June 6th, 2009
10:42 pm
I haven’t delved into it enough to know if winning a grievance would reinstate Glavine to the team.
If so, it’s gonna be fun to watch the first time he shows his face at Turner Field. It will be the loudest crowd we’ve ever heard, and I don’t think it’ll be cheers!
cabravesfan
June 6th, 2009
10:43 pm
Vinings Jim-
I have old episodes of…a lot of shows actually, on my Tivo- eventually I end up deleting them if they are way past done.
sidslidkid-
if we were not seperated by almost 3,000 miles…
Paul Lentz
June 6th, 2009
10:44 pm
Brian………if the Braves were fortunate enough to trade Javier Vazquez for Nelson Cruz…..the Braves would certainly not contact Glavine. They would either put Kris Medlen in the 5th spot in the rotation…or…they would acquire a serviceable starter from another team. But not Glavine.
SoWeGa Fanatic
June 6th, 2009
10:44 pm
“WTF? NO. I mean, he’s played like 2 games there. You …. you’re not really going to throw out “he’s hitting 400 in that spot” based on 2 games, right?”
Like it’s going to keep us from scoring for another 20 innings of so? Didn’t mean to get your dander up. Do you think it could get any worse? I don’t. Throw the stats away. Pull it from a hat. I’m serious, and it’s been done before. I dont care, but do something!
Vinings Jim
June 6th, 2009
10:46 pm
RHR – just ignore all the posts – well. I guess you’re right – you might as well bail out (I’m amazed I’ve made it five hours ignoring everyone except cab and you).
Turtsnap
June 6th, 2009
10:47 pm
Can anyone provide a stat? I’m looking for the Braves team Batting Average rankings, year by year, with Pendleton being their hitting coach. Just curious how bad that rank would be.
sidslidkid
June 6th, 2009
10:47 pm
cabravesfan,
touche! Just pickin’ on you guys. Like reading both your post (well the ones about the Braves that is).
cabravesfan
June 6th, 2009
10:48 pm
Vinings Jim-
It’s actually easier then you would think
Steve from OH
June 6th, 2009
10:49 pm
Turtsnap: Go to the link below. You’ll get ranks for AVG/OBP/SLG and home runs etc. at the bottom. TP’s first year was ‘02 or ‘03.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/
cabravesfan
June 6th, 2009
10:49 pm
sidslidkid-
no worries
Everything else is just fun- and a break from all the negitive…stuff flowing around here after a loss- feel free to ignore them
monty
June 6th, 2009
10:50 pm
So much for the impact of the Mclouth trade. Not exactly like the Crime Dog.Not blaming him, just no excitement generated for the team.
bravos2249
June 6th, 2009
10:52 pm
Turtsnap
What year did he start as hitting coach?
SoWeGa Fanatic
June 6th, 2009
10:52 pm
If Hanson stinks it up tomorrow, there is going to be riot on here. Think I’ll stay home and watch.
Steve from OH
June 6th, 2009
10:53 pm
Should’ve mentioned that you have to click on the individual links to get those rankings…
Jay212033
June 6th, 2009
10:53 pm
Paul Lentz
I proposed that same idea earlier this week with Smoak as a PTBNL and people on this blog shot it down even with Smoak added to the deal! Most people were saying they didn’t want to trade Vazquez at all
bravos2249
June 6th, 2009
10:53 pm
Turtsnap
I got it but just be patient okay I got ranks and avg okay.
Nate McLouth
June 6th, 2009
10:55 pm
Anybody have Tom Glavines lawyers phone number?
Jay212033
June 6th, 2009
10:55 pm
SoWeGa Fanatic
You can bet your bottom dollar on that one. If he hets rocked which I have a feeling he will most people will wish we had traded him for Peavy
Turtsnap
June 6th, 2009
10:55 pm
Thanks Steve. I’m beginning to wonder if the Braves should fire TP…. It is getting frustrating watching this team day in and day out!! Beginning to think ‘09 is a lost cause!
The Truth
June 6th, 2009
10:56 pm
If we are 8-10 games out around the end of July, do you think the Braves will sell shop? By that I mean, trading Vasquez, Soriano and Gonzo. Thoughts?
learner
June 6th, 2009
10:58 pm
Truth, we all have to remember the Wild Card. There is not a team that I can see that is going to run away with that thing. A move or two, and who knows?
chipdip
June 6th, 2009
10:58 pm
NATE MCLOUTH…251 BA. great pickup!
chipdip
June 6th, 2009
11:00 pm
The Braves are done.