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	<title>Comments on: Rough way for Glavine to go</title>
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		<title>By: Dudeman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/04/rough-way-for-glavine-to-go/comment-page-18/#comment-130133</link>
		<dc:creator>Dudeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/?p=1142#comment-130133</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting that Glavine is outraged. So what? I thought the bottom line is winning? If it is, then Glavine needed to go (as did Smoltz) and Hanson and Medlen deserve to be here and get started. Yes, it&#039;ll be a learning curve but how far can Atlanta go with two 40+ geriatrics in the rotation? Should the Braves allow Glavine and Smoltz to sit on the DL forever and collect millions to show them &quot;respect&quot;? For how long? Until &quot;they&quot;are ready to go? What id Atlanta had held both Smoltz &amp; Glavine in the minors in the late 80s so their old and finished pitchers could go on their terms?

I&#039;m glad at least one, Greg Maddux realized that time catches up with everyone and decided to go on his terms. Two over 40 somethings whining and how many innings have they pitched this year. $5 million for Smolyz and he has done nothing! Good move Braves!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that Glavine is outraged. So what? I thought the bottom line is winning? If it is, then Glavine needed to go (as did Smoltz) and Hanson and Medlen deserve to be here and get started. Yes, it&#8217;ll be a learning curve but how far can Atlanta go with two 40+ geriatrics in the rotation? Should the Braves allow Glavine and Smoltz to sit on the DL forever and collect millions to show them &#8220;respect&#8221;? For how long? Until &#8220;they&#8221;are ready to go? What id Atlanta had held both Smoltz &amp; Glavine in the minors in the late 80s so their old and finished pitchers could go on their terms?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad at least one, Greg Maddux realized that time catches up with everyone and decided to go on his terms. Two over 40 somethings whining and how many innings have they pitched this year. $5 million for Smolyz and he has done nothing! Good move Braves!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/04/rough-way-for-glavine-to-go/comment-page-18/#comment-130037</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/?p=1142#comment-130037</guid>
		<description>RE: the grievance: Glavine was not happy with the way he was treated, and the grievance is the reaction you would expect.  Fine.  It will be filed, considered, then rejected.  The Braves may have handled this situation poorly from a PR point of view, but what they did, they did correctly from both a procedural AND a business point of view.

As for the decision itself, I have no problem with them releasing Glavine.  I have heard multiple announcers from the two Atlanta sports radio stations spout off that Glavine could have gotten hitters out even with a sub-85 MPH fastball.

To that I say: bull-pucky!  Glavine&#039;s change-up ranges in the high 70s, but it has only minimal movement.  Further, unlike Greg Maddux, Glavine&#039;s fastball has only mediocre movement; i.e., it is relatively straight.  

To be effective in keeping the hitters timing off, his fastball MUST be AT LEAST 10 MPH faster, and clearly his fastball was not.  Unlike Smoltz, Glavine does NOT have a reliable, major-league-level curve, slider or split-finger pitch.  It is either fastball or change-up with Glavine, and without a significant difference in speed, the major league hitters would have adjusted and absolutely HAMMERED anything Glavine threw up there.

I know there will be citations of how Jamie Moyer gets batters out with even slower stuff, but Moyer throws an excellent curve PLUS his change-up is in the high 60s-low 70s range, a 12-15 MPH difference on his 83 MPH fastball.

I watched Glavine pitch in 2001 and 2002 as a Brave and the previous five years for the Mets, and his stuff was mediocre at best during those years.  Further, before he got hurt in 2008, he only had ONE quality start.

I believe the scouts WHO GET PAID TO MAKE THESE KINDs OF ASSESSMENTS judged that Glavine&#039;s stuff was not even mediocre, and that paying him $1M to start one game to get hammered would be a waste of money.

I also believe that Frank Wren actually went to the trouble of laying this all out for Glavine, and then gave him the option of gracefully retiring.  It is similar to what the White Sox did with Tom Seaver when HIS fastball degraded to the low 80s, and Seaver had the good sense face reality and retire.  But Tom Glavine did NOT want to hear this unpleasant truth and gave the Braves no choice but to release him.

Glavine now has the chance of proving me wrong by signing with another team and (he hopes) going to pitch for them to prove the Braves made a mistake.  I honestly hope he is given that chance, so when he does start and gives up eight hits and six runs in two-plus innings two or three times in a row, everyone will see that Frank Wren was right.

Just my humble opinion...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: the grievance: Glavine was not happy with the way he was treated, and the grievance is the reaction you would expect.  Fine.  It will be filed, considered, then rejected.  The Braves may have handled this situation poorly from a PR point of view, but what they did, they did correctly from both a procedural AND a business point of view.</p>
<p>As for the decision itself, I have no problem with them releasing Glavine.  I have heard multiple announcers from the two Atlanta sports radio stations spout off that Glavine could have gotten hitters out even with a sub-85 MPH fastball.</p>
<p>To that I say: bull-pucky!  Glavine&#8217;s change-up ranges in the high 70s, but it has only minimal movement.  Further, unlike Greg Maddux, Glavine&#8217;s fastball has only mediocre movement; i.e., it is relatively straight.  </p>
<p>To be effective in keeping the hitters timing off, his fastball MUST be AT LEAST 10 MPH faster, and clearly his fastball was not.  Unlike Smoltz, Glavine does NOT have a reliable, major-league-level curve, slider or split-finger pitch.  It is either fastball or change-up with Glavine, and without a significant difference in speed, the major league hitters would have adjusted and absolutely HAMMERED anything Glavine threw up there.</p>
<p>I know there will be citations of how Jamie Moyer gets batters out with even slower stuff, but Moyer throws an excellent curve PLUS his change-up is in the high 60s-low 70s range, a 12-15 MPH difference on his 83 MPH fastball.</p>
<p>I watched Glavine pitch in 2001 and 2002 as a Brave and the previous five years for the Mets, and his stuff was mediocre at best during those years.  Further, before he got hurt in 2008, he only had ONE quality start.</p>
<p>I believe the scouts WHO GET PAID TO MAKE THESE KINDs OF ASSESSMENTS judged that Glavine&#8217;s stuff was not even mediocre, and that paying him $1M to start one game to get hammered would be a waste of money.</p>
<p>I also believe that Frank Wren actually went to the trouble of laying this all out for Glavine, and then gave him the option of gracefully retiring.  It is similar to what the White Sox did with Tom Seaver when HIS fastball degraded to the low 80s, and Seaver had the good sense face reality and retire.  But Tom Glavine did NOT want to hear this unpleasant truth and gave the Braves no choice but to release him.</p>
<p>Glavine now has the chance of proving me wrong by signing with another team and (he hopes) going to pitch for them to prove the Braves made a mistake.  I honestly hope he is given that chance, so when he does start and gives up eight hits and six runs in two-plus innings two or three times in a row, everyone will see that Frank Wren was right.</p>
<p>Just my humble opinion&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Producer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/04/rough-way-for-glavine-to-go/comment-page-18/#comment-129634</link>
		<dc:creator>Producer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/?p=1142#comment-129634</guid>
		<description>Glavine is going to file a &quot;grievance?&quot;  Typical union loser mentality...They ruined Eastern Airlines, they&#039;re in the process of ruining our auto industry, they ruin every industry they touch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glavine is going to file a &#8220;grievance?&#8221;  Typical union loser mentality&#8230;They ruined Eastern Airlines, they&#8217;re in the process of ruining our auto industry, they ruin every industry they touch.</p>
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		<title>By: John Tucker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/04/rough-way-for-glavine-to-go/comment-page-18/#comment-128134</link>
		<dc:creator>John Tucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 10:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/?p=1142#comment-128134</guid>
		<description>I admire the contributions by Glavine and SMoltz to the Braves&#039; 14- year string of NL East titles; and both are hall of Famers..

At the same time, they have embarrassed themselves this yeaer and unfairly criticized the braves for not valuing them enough and not keeping them on for another year as over-the-hill ineffective statrters, when the Braves needed better piitchig than Smoltz and Glavine can give them any more.

I do bit wish Glavine or Smoltz any harm, but I do wish they would stop whining about being treated unfairly by the Braves. Rather, Ifeel that Smoltz and Galvine have traeted the braves and Braves fans unfairly by desiring to continue playong beyond their glory years and claiming the Braves &quot;owe&quot; them another year. hey have been well-paid, and maybe they can earn even more, Hope so, but I am very thankful Frank Wren and his staff finally put the old war horses out to pasture. let&#039;em play for somebody else. We braves fans have seen enough of both Tommy and John and would like not to have the good memories spoiled anymore by havig to watch their aged bodies under-perform and to hear their whimpering self-pity.

Why do the great ball players find it so hard to retire? I don&#039;t know, but I wish we had a Senior League to which all players over 40 were banished, It would make for better MLB teams.

Oh, and can a fan file a grievance for abuse by aged ball players who think they can still do moere than they raelly can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admire the contributions by Glavine and SMoltz to the Braves&#8217; 14- year string of NL East titles; and both are hall of Famers..</p>
<p>At the same time, they have embarrassed themselves this yeaer and unfairly criticized the braves for not valuing them enough and not keeping them on for another year as over-the-hill ineffective statrters, when the Braves needed better piitchig than Smoltz and Glavine can give them any more.</p>
<p>I do bit wish Glavine or Smoltz any harm, but I do wish they would stop whining about being treated unfairly by the Braves. Rather, Ifeel that Smoltz and Galvine have traeted the braves and Braves fans unfairly by desiring to continue playong beyond their glory years and claiming the Braves &#8220;owe&#8221; them another year. hey have been well-paid, and maybe they can earn even more, Hope so, but I am very thankful Frank Wren and his staff finally put the old war horses out to pasture. let&#8217;em play for somebody else. We braves fans have seen enough of both Tommy and John and would like not to have the good memories spoiled anymore by havig to watch their aged bodies under-perform and to hear their whimpering self-pity.</p>
<p>Why do the great ball players find it so hard to retire? I don&#8217;t know, but I wish we had a Senior League to which all players over 40 were banished, It would make for better MLB teams.</p>
<p>Oh, and can a fan file a grievance for abuse by aged ball players who think they can still do moere than they raelly can.</p>
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		<title>By: Kamal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/04/rough-way-for-glavine-to-go/comment-page-18/#comment-126499</link>
		<dc:creator>Kamal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/?p=1142#comment-126499</guid>
		<description>Since there are too many replies to see if this has already been addressed, I&#039;ll just give my 2 cents on the Glavine release. To preface, I&#039;ve never been a fan of Smoltz and I liked Glavine before he slinked up to NY but not since.  I didn&#039;t have a problem with the Braves getting rid of Glavine, I think it would have been a disaster and an embarrassment to him.  But when I heard that the Braves were claiming it was performance related, I was shocked.  Here&#039;s the reason: 

 The Braves have been mediocre for about 4 years now. Our offense is horrible. Hitters turn to outsiders for help and tonight, we managed 2 hits.  So here&#039;s my question:  Why hasn&#039;t Frank Wren released (fired) Bobby Cox and Terry Pendelton?  Certainly Cox is going to be a HOF, but does that give him a free ride? The Braves didn&#039;t give Glavine that pass.  The Braves have been lousy for several years and it&#039;s apparent that a change would do the team good.  They can&#039;t hit the side of a barn but Pendelton is still here. Glavine isn&#039;t meeting performance expectations so he&#039;s gone.  So why is Pendleton still here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since there are too many replies to see if this has already been addressed, I&#8217;ll just give my 2 cents on the Glavine release. To preface, I&#8217;ve never been a fan of Smoltz and I liked Glavine before he slinked up to NY but not since.  I didn&#8217;t have a problem with the Braves getting rid of Glavine, I think it would have been a disaster and an embarrassment to him.  But when I heard that the Braves were claiming it was performance related, I was shocked.  Here&#8217;s the reason: </p>
<p> The Braves have been mediocre for about 4 years now. Our offense is horrible. Hitters turn to outsiders for help and tonight, we managed 2 hits.  So here&#8217;s my question:  Why hasn&#8217;t Frank Wren released (fired) Bobby Cox and Terry Pendelton?  Certainly Cox is going to be a HOF, but does that give him a free ride? The Braves didn&#8217;t give Glavine that pass.  The Braves have been lousy for several years and it&#8217;s apparent that a change would do the team good.  They can&#8217;t hit the side of a barn but Pendelton is still here. Glavine isn&#8217;t meeting performance expectations so he&#8217;s gone.  So why is Pendleton still here?</p>
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		<title>By: baldereagle</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/04/rough-way-for-glavine-to-go/comment-page-18/#comment-125885</link>
		<dc:creator>baldereagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 00:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/?p=1142#comment-125885</guid>
		<description>Tom Glavine was wonderful for us but he took off to the Mets for more money.  What&#039;s good for the goose is good for the gander.  It was business then and business now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom Glavine was wonderful for us but he took off to the Mets for more money.  What&#8217;s good for the goose is good for the gander.  It was business then and business now.</p>
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		<title>By: chuck</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/04/rough-way-for-glavine-to-go/comment-page-18/#comment-125855</link>
		<dc:creator>chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 00:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/?p=1142#comment-125855</guid>
		<description>THANK YOU TOMMY for your wonderful contribution to the Braves division winning streak and WORLD TITLE! That being said, please don&#039;t complain about &quot;the money&quot; since i recall you did not loyalty stand in the way when you signed with our chief division rival Mets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THANK YOU TOMMY for your wonderful contribution to the Braves division winning streak and WORLD TITLE! That being said, please don&#8217;t complain about &#8220;the money&#8221; since i recall you did not loyalty stand in the way when you signed with our chief division rival Mets.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/04/rough-way-for-glavine-to-go/comment-page-18/#comment-125790</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 23:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/?p=1142#comment-125790</guid>
		<description>Time to move on. Tom Glavine had no problem leaving Atlanta for the money in New York, see friend John Smoltz in Boston who may also never throw another pitch. Baseball is a business and Mr. Wren was in the tough position to say as Mr. Trump so states, &quot;You&#039;re Fired&quot;. Life sucks Tommy. Still haven&#039;t seen a story where some scout out there feels you can help their team, not even the Nationals have called. Maybe you can sit on the bench in Boston with John and Greg can come by for some seeds and play a round or two. At least you can watch the Stanley Cup.....Maybe the Wings can use a 83 mph slapshot.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time to move on. Tom Glavine had no problem leaving Atlanta for the money in New York, see friend John Smoltz in Boston who may also never throw another pitch. Baseball is a business and Mr. Wren was in the tough position to say as Mr. Trump so states, &#8220;You&#8217;re Fired&#8221;. Life sucks Tommy. Still haven&#8217;t seen a story where some scout out there feels you can help their team, not even the Nationals have called. Maybe you can sit on the bench in Boston with John and Greg can come by for some seeds and play a round or two. At least you can watch the Stanley Cup&#8230;..Maybe the Wings can use a 83 mph slapshot&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Lentz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/04/rough-way-for-glavine-to-go/comment-page-18/#comment-125787</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Lentz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 23:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/?p=1142#comment-125787</guid>
		<description>AGTFan..........I root and support the players in the uniform as long as they produce and can help the TEAM win.  When they quit performing or helping the team win, then that is when it is time for them to go.  Seeing a has been take up a roster spot does not interest me.  I pay for the MLB Extra Innings package (I live in San Francisco) because I want to see the Braves put the best team out there that they can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AGTFan&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.I root and support the players in the uniform as long as they produce and can help the TEAM win.  When they quit performing or helping the team win, then that is when it is time for them to go.  Seeing a has been take up a roster spot does not interest me.  I pay for the MLB Extra Innings package (I live in San Francisco) because I want to see the Braves put the best team out there that they can.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Lentz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/04/rough-way-for-glavine-to-go/comment-page-18/#comment-125773</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Lentz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 23:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/?p=1142#comment-125773</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad to hear that Frank Wren has no interest in acquiring Brad Penny.  If the Braves were to swing a trade involving trading Vazquez for a right handed power hitting right fielder....then I&#039;d hope that the Braves would plus Kris Medlen in that spot.  

I&#039;m thinking that the Braves want to see how Tommy Hanson pitches his first few starts before making a big trade.  If Hanson shows the maturity and command to pitch well, then I could see the Braves willing to ante up Vazquez for the right handed bat they need (and of course getting rid of Franceour).  If Hanson falters, then Medlen will have to take his spot, making it really hard to get rid of Vazquez., which makes them have to take a different approach if they want to trade for a right handed power bat.

The only way I could &quot;see&quot; where keeping Franceour made sense is if the Braves were to acquire a power hitting right handed first baseman in a trade where the other team took Casey Kotchman in return in a packaged deal.  Then the Braves could &quot;afford&quot; to have him bat 8th and keep him in there for his defense.  That just puts off the decision of getting rid of him until the end of the season.  However, the odds of the Braves being able to swing that kind of trade arent great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad to hear that Frank Wren has no interest in acquiring Brad Penny.  If the Braves were to swing a trade involving trading Vazquez for a right handed power hitting right fielder&#8230;.then I&#8217;d hope that the Braves would plus Kris Medlen in that spot.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking that the Braves want to see how Tommy Hanson pitches his first few starts before making a big trade.  If Hanson shows the maturity and command to pitch well, then I could see the Braves willing to ante up Vazquez for the right handed bat they need (and of course getting rid of Franceour).  If Hanson falters, then Medlen will have to take his spot, making it really hard to get rid of Vazquez., which makes them have to take a different approach if they want to trade for a right handed power bat.</p>
<p>The only way I could &#8220;see&#8221; where keeping Franceour made sense is if the Braves were to acquire a power hitting right handed first baseman in a trade where the other team took Casey Kotchman in return in a packaged deal.  Then the Braves could &#8220;afford&#8221; to have him bat 8th and keep him in there for his defense.  That just puts off the decision of getting rid of him until the end of the season.  However, the odds of the Braves being able to swing that kind of trade arent great.</p>
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