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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,631 comments Add your comment
PWHjort
May 29th, 2009
3:21 pm
David Delucci is the new Richie Sexson.
David O'Brien
May 29th, 2009
3:21 pm
Braves70: Brilliant outfield? We’ve done nothing but describe how poor an offensive unit this outfield is. Worst in the majors. Who has portrayed it as a “brilliant outfield?”
But if you think that David Delucci is any sort of answer, then wow, you certainly have low expectations. Or you think Delucci owns a time machine.
Shaun
May 29th, 2009
3:21 pm
fleming, everything I’ve read and seen, players do not perform drastically different from expectations with RISP. The only thing I’ve read that reveals anything different is a study that showed that players with certain skill sets (disciplined hitters that make good contact) perform better that expected in certain situations. Basically clutch hitting can be explained by some guys being good situational hitters–disciplined hitters with good bat control for the most part.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=betweenthenumbers/ortiz/060405
Corky's Mom
May 29th, 2009
3:21 pm
My boy would make a fine cleanup hitter. He just doesn’t get many good pitches to hit because he has to hit in the bottom of the order. Just like Jeff.
RHR
May 29th, 2009
3:23 pm
Oh I get it, A. Lemming. I thought someone was being sarcastic.
cricket
May 29th, 2009
3:23 pm
braves70,
Just asking – do you prefer Dellucci over Edmonds? If not, never mind.
If yes, why? Their recent stats (07 and 08) are not even comparable, especially considering the power black holes in our OF.
braves70
May 29th, 2009
3:24 pm
No DOB my expectations are anything better than the absolute zeroes we have in all 3 OF positions. You cannot go any lower than what we have now.
Bobby's Cox
May 29th, 2009
3:25 pm
he only thing I’ve read that reveals anything different is a study that showed that players with certain skill sets (disciplined hitters that make good contact) perform better that expected in certain situations. Basically clutch hitting can be explained by some guys being good situational hitters–disciplined hitters with good bat control for the most part. Shaun
Shaun, what do you think I was trying to tell you all year last year in our KJ/prado debates?
braves70
May 29th, 2009
3:26 pm
Cricket, I would prefer Edmonds over Dellucci if he had been playing. I get the impression that Edmonds with his back problems has decided to retire for good.
Redstick19
May 29th, 2009
3:26 pm
why are we even talking about Dellucci? We already have GA and JF, why would we want another guy who hits below .300 with little power. Nothing against Dellucci, I actually kinda like the guy, but that move makes NO SENSE at all. If that’s our options, let’s keep Frenchy.
Efrim
May 29th, 2009
3:27 pm
“Hunter Pence is the best trade piece out there for us. Not saying he’s on the market, he’s probably not, but Houston could use a 2nd baseman and some pitching. I think we could get them to listen and entertain offers…”
For Martin Prado and some pitching? Oh wait. No. Kelly Johnson and some pitching, right?
CB
May 29th, 2009
3:27 pm
RHR-duh
McFann :Ô:
May 29th, 2009
3:28 pm
Quote from Joe Torre regarding the All-Star Game (after saying that Ramirez should skip the ASG if voted in by the fans):
“To me, I think the significance of the All-Star Game is to reward players who have a good first half,” Torre said. “We don’t always do that, because it’s a popularity vote, for the most part. If you want to include the fans, that’s how it’s got to be.”
He’s right: it is sooooo a popularity vote…which kinda ruins it. But that doesn’t mean I don’t want BMac to go…
VOTE McCANN 2009 ALL-STAR!!
JasoninAtl
May 29th, 2009
3:30 pm
DOB, for the record, I hate bashing Frenchy. I truly like his passion, especially as we see more and more players who seem like all they want to do is cash a paycheck. His slide has been sad more than anything else.
Bobby's Cox
May 29th, 2009
3:30 pm
Exactly Efrim. Why keep your left handed bats in the lineup? Besides, for Pence, Houston would want the better player right
MFin04
May 29th, 2009
3:30 pm
The real question is why in the world are Schafer and Frenchy above benching for a day or two?
Schafer because we have no replacement? (That could be easily fixed, drop Norton, bring up Blanco)
Frenchy because we have no replacement? (Put someone out there, KJ or Diaz would work, or drop Norton, call up Brandon Jones/Blanco)
DO SOMETHING!!!!
It doesn’t make sense to keep putting these guys out there.
fleming
May 29th, 2009
3:31 pm
Shaun – With the exception of the people who can’t handle the pressure situations, most hitters should have a higher average with RISP due to the simple mechanics of the situation.
1. Runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. – Sac fly. No points off the BA. without runner on third standard out points off BA
2. Runner on 3rd less than 2 outs in a close game. – Infield drawn in sharp grounder gets through. Points added to BA – no runners on 3rd out BA loses points.
3. Runner on 2nd – 2nd baseman or SS cheating towards 2nd to hold runners close.
These and other similar things that are different with RISP tends to add points to BA. Not a lot, but some.
Rob (from SC)
May 29th, 2009
3:31 pm
DOB
Is there anyway Tommy Hanson gets called up like CNNSI said might happen.
cricket
May 29th, 2009
3:32 pm
braves70,
Cool. actually, Edmonds hasn’t retired officially as he wants to play and thinks he can play. He is one of the somewhat mysteriously unsigned free agent so far.
Jersey Gil
May 29th, 2009
3:32 pm
DOB..soon people in this blog going to trade the whole Team to Gwinnett and bring the Gwinnett to Turner field….There are playing better…
Jersey Gil
May 29th, 2009
3:33 pm
Ohh..that include the Coaching staff
ncscoots
May 29th, 2009
3:34 pm
Probably should have a rule: before you can propose some idiot off-the-planet trade, you must have read Tom Marchman’s recent article on the value of trades. I’m not a big fan of his, but, this blog’s recent content was the first thing that came to mind when I read the article.
Not that any of the mindless Trader Jacks here will buy into his premise, but, what the hey.
fleming
May 29th, 2009
3:36 pm
Jersey Gil – DOB..soon people in this blog going to trade the whole Team to Gwinnett
Might want to make that Mississippi. Gwinnett has hitting problems as well
David O'Brien
May 29th, 2009
3:36 pm
Rob (from SC): I’ve asked Bobby Cox for three consecutive days since Medlen’s last start whether he was going to start Sunday. The answer went from “We’ll see, right now he is” the first day to “Yes” yesterday when I asked. That’s all I can tell you.
ncscoots
May 29th, 2009
3:38 pm
He is one of the somewhat mysteriously unsigned free agent so far.
I’m afraid there the ability of Jim Edmonds no longer imports any “mystery”. That ship has sailed, hit an iceberg, and sunk.
Shaun
May 29th, 2009
3:39 pm
Shaun, what do you think I was trying to tell you all year last year in our KJ/prado debates?
I don’t remember too much about those debates but one thing to keep in mind: Being a good “situational” hitter by definition means you a better in certain situations. But overall you have to take the more talented hitter.
And KJ is just as good or better in RISP or clutch situations as he is overall, if you are implying Prado gives you some sort of advantage in RISP or clutch situations.
Kenny Chesney
May 29th, 2009
3:41 pm
Somebody Tell Frenchy to use another song when he comes up to bat, i dont my hit to be used by someone who cant get a hit
P-Town Brave
May 29th, 2009
3:41 pm
Start the bidding on the Rockies players….
braves70
May 29th, 2009
3:44 pm
I see our old friend Matt Harrison landed on the DL with a bad left shoulder for the Rangers.
Shaun
May 29th, 2009
3:44 pm
fleming, right about hitters should have an advantage in most situations with RISP. But if you are looking at the best hitters with RISP, you are looking at who has most outperformed his overall stats or his non-RISP stats. In other words, most hitters would show up as better with RISP; but you want to look at which hitters over-perform most in those situations and if there is a pattern with the top over-performers.
Josh H
May 29th, 2009
3:44 pm
All you would guarantee by Frenchy batting 2nd is that Chipper would always come up with no one on base.
buzzmeat (BMAC AT CLEANUP!)
May 29th, 2009
3:45 pm
Any news on Escobar? I probly shouldnt ask since the game is not till waaaaaayy later today!
JasoninAtl
May 29th, 2009
3:49 pm
Radical thought here, and I know we don’t have a lot that has value…but maybe we should stop thinking about trades that make us better this year for trades that make us better in the future?
Look, this year held promise for me. I kind of bought into the Frenchy “new approach” thing, I like the idea of challenging a young guy (JS), and while I believe the jury is still out on KK, I liked the signing when it happened. It hasn’t worked out, Frenchy and KK are sunk costs unless KK figures out how to keep the ball in the park, and JS is obviously not ready. The trade market for bats is thin, meaning the price would be high.
Who has legitimate value?
Vazquez – 11.5mill this year and next
Gonzo – 3.45mil, and a FA next year
Soriano – 6.35mil and a FA next year
So Braves Blog Denizens, what can we get for those guys? I know, I know, not a whole lot, but anybody have realistic expectations for what we could get.
Also, I wouldn’t trade KJ. Too cheap, still relatively young at a position where his potential still plays.
Bobby's Cox
May 29th, 2009
3:49 pm
I don’t buy it that you don’t remember Shaun. How could you not. Seems like one of your avoiding the question, debate schemes.
You should be a politician, not a statistician. Hell, i never like the stats you throw out, or your reasoning behind them and how you value players. But your debate tactics sure as hell drive me insane.
LongBall
May 29th, 2009
3:50 pm
just looking at the frency replacements thing and Brian Roberts and Markakis would be amazing if the braves could pull something like that off -
the real Andy
May 29th, 2009
3:50 pm
i’m not sure what our other options are in CF, but seriously how long can we go before we admit that Jordan just wasn’t ready to be in the big leagues? i hope that he’s a brave for years to come, but the kid needs more seasoning. he looks overmatched and just plain weak up there. He’s on pace for 200 K’s, which might be acceptable if he was a power hitter or drove in runs. He’s just not ready, and we can’t continue to have essentially two pitchers in the lineup.
as for the production from LF, Diaz and Anderson have combined for 26 RBIs. Not too bad, really.
Shaun
May 29th, 2009
3:51 pm
With the exception of the people who can’t handle the pressure situations
Fleming, first of all good discussion. Second, who are these people? Again I would argue that that in order to reach the big leagues, you have to be able to handle pressure situations otherwise you are stuck in A-ball or AA-ball or somewhere. I don’t think “tightening up” is a significant reason why big leaguers may fail in pressure situations.
Bravesfan
May 29th, 2009
3:51 pm
If you think about it, Medlen is the obvious choice. Even if he’s ready to come back to the majors, Glavine won’t be available Sunday. One our potential spot starters, Carlyle, is on the DL. Reyes is on the DL, not that we’d be stupid enough to run him out again though.
The Braves have very little room to maneuver when it comes to their pitching right now. I think they could:
1. push up everybody’s starts by a day and skip the number 5 — not going to happen
2. Call up Hanson — don’t think so. i wouldn’t be shocked if they did
3. Call up Morton — not a horrible option
4. Go with the easy option, which involves no player movement.. Chris Medlen The guy who, aside from a couple rough innings, hasn’t been terrible.
cricket
May 29th, 2009
3:52 pm
ncscoots,
’m afraid there the ability of Jim Edmonds no longer imports any “mystery”. That ship has sailed, hit an iceberg, and sunk.
Sorry, not buying that. I agree no team has signed him, but still he has never failed when he was on the field the last time. How do you arrive at the conclusion that the ship has sunk? Check his 08 numbers. Remember, he did pretty well last year and was not resigned. Its not like he stunk and was DFA’d.
Also, pretty much all major sports web sites’ top available free agents include him and most of them are a bit surprised (and at least one is sad) that he’s being forced into retirement without getting a chance to prove himself.
AndyC
May 29th, 2009
3:56 pm
I think Medlen deserves another start. I think he worked out some of his nerves during the last start and will pitch well next time. I mean, what are our other options? Campillo? Bennett? Bring someone else up for a spot start? Because it looks like Glavine will be ready after his next rehab start barring a set back.
Shaun
May 29th, 2009
3:56 pm
as for the production from LF, Diaz and Anderson have combined for 26 RBIs. Not too bad, really.
RBI are a measure of production for individual hitters? Sorry can’t resist.
Francoeur has 21 RBI by himself. Does that mean his production is “not too bad, really?”
Dumbfound
May 29th, 2009
3:58 pm
Show me how 20 homeruns and 100 rbi’s stink !!!
fleming
May 29th, 2009
3:58 pm
Shaun – who are these people
Maybe it’s not a matter of not handling pressure as much as not being a good situational hitter and trying to do something which they’re not good at. Sac flies, hitting behind runners, taking advantage of natural holes RISP causes in the defense.
MFin04
May 29th, 2009
3:59 pm
Edmonds cant hit lefties, not sure what that means in the scheme of things, but…. he hit .146 against levels with little to no power.
MFin04
May 29th, 2009
4:00 pm
***levels – lefties
Bobby's Cox
May 29th, 2009
4:00 pm
Shaun,
This is where I tell you that with RISP (career) prado is hitting .328/.395/.488 and Kelly is hitting .286/.375/.497.
And then this is where you tell me about “sample size”.
And that’s when i tell you, but you said …basically clutch hitting can be explained by some guys being good situational hitters–disciplined hitters with good bat control for the most part
Is this ringing a bell from last year?
And this is where Efrim gets mad that I think we should trade the excess 2nd base abundant LH bat for an outfield bat in a Francouer package, just thinking that I hate KJ, but not realizing I think the team is better with more RH .300 hitting bats… Yes, package them both with a good pitching prospect to Houston for Pence, if it can be done.
Doc Holiday
May 29th, 2009
4:01 pm
Baseball is just business.——- nothing else——–like in any other business, things cost…………you want to win, you need to score………..you want to score, you have to go for the guys that drive in runs, SO STOP DREAMING and get us a real RF…………..and if possible, a real 2b.
fleming (Prado .239
May 29th, 2009
4:05 pm
Enter your comments here
Hillbilly
May 29th, 2009
4:08 pm
Hey, Clint Hurdle got fired today. I think a package of Morton, Reyes, and Brandon Jones could land him in Atlanta. He could platoon with Schafer,… er, Schaeffer. (Here it comes, Scoots. Get Ready…) He can’t be any worse than what we have, now……..Put him in the 2-hole!
ncscoots
May 29th, 2009
4:09 pm
Hillbilly, LOL, my man.
Cvan
May 29th, 2009
4:09 pm
Why not hit Francoeur 3rd in front of Chipper? We all know Frenchy can’t hit anything but a fastball, so put him there and maybe he will have a couple good games. That is about all we can ask for.
StingerSplash
May 29th, 2009
4:13 pm
Jim Edmonds? Really? Could somebody ask him what it was like to play with Enos “Country” Slaughter and Harry “The Hat” Walker? G. Anderson is old and Edmonds is over the hill compared to him.
CB
May 29th, 2009
4:13 pm
Hillbilly throw in a couple bloggers
Bay Area Steve
May 29th, 2009
4:14 pm
scoots, link?
Can’t find ‘er in the Google Machine.
Shaun
May 29th, 2009
4:14 pm
Bobby’s Cox, first of all, Johnson is very good too with RISP. Second, sample size does matter–428 PA versus 120 PA. Third, I’ll take the player with better overall skills (as evident by his overall numbers) because I trust 1716 PA versus 120 PA to tell me who is better. In case you need me to spell it out, Johnson has 1716 PA in the Bigs versus Prado’s 120 PA with RISP.
Cvan
May 29th, 2009
4:15 pm
Here is my lineup
2B KJ
1) LF Diaz
2) 1B Kotch
3) RF Francoeur
4) 3B Chipper
5) C Mac
6) SS Escobar
7) CF Schafer
9) Pitcher
Outside the box a bit? You bet ya, but damn why can’t my lineup have a chance to score 0 or 1 run?
This way we give Schafer and Francoeur some more pitches to hit. Do I really think that would help? NO, but I am willing to try something.
Cvan
May 29th, 2009
4:16 pm
And atleast Diaz tries as hard as he can. May not be the fastest but he runs hard EVERYTIME
N8
May 29th, 2009
4:16 pm
” I believe all situations in the major leagues or in the NFL are pressure-packed. There is variation to the pressures in most of our jobs but while there is some variation in the pressure of situations in MLB, there isn’t as much because you are expected to perform well in many situations.” Shaun
Yeah. Because being signed at 4 years 60 million dollars to be the Braves “new Ace” (talking about Derek Lowe), has about the same amount of pressure as say…. Kyle Davies in the Royals rotation.
I understand what you are saying Shaun. Really, I do. So are you going to tell me that Joe Mauer has the same pressure, say from the media in Minnesota, as perhaps Arod and Tex do in NY?? I’m here to tell you that I don’t think they do.
As for there being as much pressure in the minors as in the majors? Again, I disagree. Especially for a guy that just signed a HUGE deal.
Like many professions, I think it’s an easier road to “get to the top”, than to stay there, and truly be great on a regular basis.
Obviously, Jeff did enough to get called up. But even though he’s still up, he really hasn’t done much to warrant it. Feeling the pressure? Or just never any good to begin with?
Why did Jose Lind let a routine ground ball, that he had made thousands of times, go through his legs, when if he fields it cleanly, his team goes to the WS in 1992? Same for Bucknor in 86.
I understand some of your rationalization. Really, I do. But year after year, you take the human element out of the equation, as though they are cyborgs
I can see it now. Jeff strkes out, and walks back to the dugout with a “stone faced” look. TP asks “What pitch was it?” To which Jeff replies….“I’m looking for Sarah Connor!”
They’re people. They sweat more in some situations. They out think themselves when the game is on the line. (Which, btw, I agree with you, that ALL situations should be pressure packed, because the game is “on the line” in the first inning, just as much as the last – but due to media, fans and the “time” in the game, I bet if you asked guys what’s more pressure packed, they’d tell you the 9th inning AB).
I may over-state my idea of pressure and how it relates to players performances. But I over-state it NO MORE, than you under-estimate it’s exsistence.
StingerSplash
May 29th, 2009
4:17 pm
Just looked back a couple of pages in the blog … didn’t know we were gonna have Burton Cummings join us.
Maybe we’ll get “Share the Land” or “Bus Rider” or “8:15″ today (oh, the privileges of having older brothers in college as a wee lad and listening to their Guess Who albums while they were away).
Lew
May 29th, 2009
4:17 pm
scoots-You got that right, Ahab.
fleming (Prado .239, Frenchy .247)
May 29th, 2009
4:17 pm
Cvan – Not only out of the Box but in the un-parallel universe
Doc Holiday
May 29th, 2009
4:18 pm
Braves are on a pace of hitting 114 HR……….if everything goes well………Since 2000 only 1 team in the majors has not reached the 100 HR mark———– 2008 SF giants.
So if this lack of powers continues, we might join history.
the real Andy
May 29th, 2009
4:18 pm
Shaun – hmm… seems my response failed to post. i’ll try again.
I’m all for using modern methods to measure production, but last i checked the game was still about who scored more runs. it’s ridiculous to say that RBI aren’t “a measure of production” – certainly they’re not the only measure, but getting the run home does matter. give me a two RBI single over a bases empty two out double.
and yes, Frenchy was actually doing a good job early in the year, if you’ll remember. 16 RBI in the first 22 games is good by any measure – it’s just since May 1 that he fell off a cliff.
the day that RBI is snickered at as important stat is the day the eggheads have gone too far. you can take your VORP and stick it where the sun don’t shine – give me someone who produces actual runs.
ncscoots
May 29th, 2009
4:19 pm
BASteve, sorry, man. Marchman is over at SI.com
Nate from NCState
May 29th, 2009
4:19 pm
Hey what do you guys think of Russell Branyan’s start in Seattle? Not saying the Braves should definitely pursue the guy, but he might be a cheaper option (prospect wise) if nothing else opens up, especially if he can play LF, which he has before.
Daniel
May 29th, 2009
4:19 pm
Guys the situation for the Braves is simply this. If we can stay within 4 games of the division over the next month, then we can consider a move for some more outfield production. Nothing of value will happen until then.
Also, I have no idea why anyone would want Glavine to pitch again. The moment he takes the mound costs us another $1 million. We should just stick with Medlen/Morton/Hansen as our fifth/situational starters the rest of the season.
DOB- I love your work man, and I really like the post on TP, but to be honest both you and Mark Bradley have been kinda dissing the bloggers lately. Fans having passion for their team and debating moves or non-moves is fun and entertaining.
The point that ultimately all these decisions are going to be made by professionals with more insight into the team and its finances is kinda insulting.
Of course, Wren, Cox, et.al are going to make the moves, of course, it takes two teams to trade, and of course life has a lot more gray than black and white.
Everyone on here really already knows that! We just like to talk Braves baseball.
Love you man…
but just thought you should know the tenor of your work is being noticed.
ncscoots
May 29th, 2009
4:24 pm
Lew…Call me scoots.
Doesn’t quite have Melville’s ring, huh, LOL?
Daniel
May 29th, 2009
4:24 pm
N8-that was a good post. I also offer that Jeff was only good when steroids were not being tested for.
McFann :Ô:
May 29th, 2009
4:25 pm
Clint Hurdle was fired? Wow…I guess the Rockies finally realized you can’t hang on to a guy who won’t play his one of best hitters…
Travis
May 29th, 2009
4:25 pm
Stinger Splash…What the heck did that mean?
N8
May 29th, 2009
4:25 pm
“The OF in 88′ was worse than this one.”
Not much. LOL! But yeah. The offense that year was pretty pathetic. Rick Mahler, Glavine, Zane Smith and Pete Smith all had ERA’s around 4.50 or better (both Mahler and Pete Smith were closer to 3.50), yet they combined to go 28-58.
A perfect idea of how bad the rest of the team was? Rick Mahler was 9-16 with a 3.69 ERA, while racking up 249 IP. I’d say that the W-L record, wasn’t quite his fault, huh?
BTW, a 21 year old John Smoltz made 12 starts, going 2-7 with a 5.48 ERA that year.
Daniel
May 29th, 2009
4:26 pm
McFann- I knew you would love that news.
CB
May 29th, 2009
4:27 pm
McFann you can let it go ,sweety
fleming (Prado .239, Frenchy .247)
May 29th, 2009
4:29 pm
McFann :Ô: – Let’s all take it out of the managers hands and vote BMac is as starter
Ronald Millsaps
May 29th, 2009
4:29 pm
Don’t trade Jeff Francoeur! That response is NOT the answer!
Why are we seeing so few adjustments? What infuriates me is that approaches that simply don’t work get used over and over again: Kelly Johnson at leadoff; passivity on the offensive end–e.g. waiting for the timely hit as opposed to the Phillies/Mets-like approach to try to put serious runs on the board as soon as possible; few stolen-base attempts; even fewer double-steals; etc..
Send Jordan Schafer to Triple A for Gregor Blanco. Let Jeff Francoeur bat cleanup. At least TRY it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Move Kelly to the eighth spot. Quit benching Kelly ever third or fourth game, and don’t bench him against lefties when he hits them better than righties.
Having players where they’re best-suited has a residual effect on the rest of the lineup, and it’s mandatory to find where these guys need to bat, and we’re not seeing people used properly. We then see untimely, 24-hour adjustments that tend to make things worse.
Bobby has his hands full with this one. Forget the profanity-laced comments from most of the bloggers on here. The Braves desperately need to have Francoeur at cleanup and Kelly at “eight.” I stand by my comment that the Matt Williams-like technique of resting his chin atop his left shoulder would do wonders for Francoeur. I would like to see him try it.
Trading Francoeur is absolutely not the answer. We’ve seen two sides of him, and I don’t believe for a minute that he can’t regain his previous form. He deserves at least a CHANCE to bat cleanup on a consistent basis. Lest we forget, in the one game where he did bat cleanup this year, he hit a home run and saw the wind knock down another, an interesting piece of information for all the “results now” Francoeur-bashers.
buzzmeat (BMAC AT CLEANUP!)
May 29th, 2009
4:30 pm
CVAN,
I disagree Diaz is pretty fast since he did P90X
ncscoots
May 29th, 2009
4:30 pm
just thought you should know the tenor of your work is being noticed.
That’s right, David, LOL, you blogger-dissing cur. No more of that, lest some of the contributors decide to leave this forum.
Oh wait…
N8
May 29th, 2009
4:31 pm
Forgot to add to my “point” about mentioning Smoltz’ numbers at the end of the last post. While Smoltz struggled (as most young guys do out of the gates – and Hanson is likely to do the same at times), his learning experience obviously paid of in spades for the 89 season.
His sophomore effort saw him pitch 208 innings in 29 starts, posting a 2.94 ERA and racking up 170 K’s.
Which is why it’s essential that Tommy Hanson comes up sooner than later. If everybody is under the belief that he will struggle when he arrives, wouldn’t it be better to get those lumps out of the way in what might be a lost season anyhow (provided the offense doesn’t pick it up sooner than later).
Otherwise, we’ll be going through the same thing next year with Hanson.
I’m of the belief that he’s NOT going to struggle that much. He might only be league average, and not as dominant as he is in AAA, but that’s all any team needs from the bottom of the rotation, right?
beekay
May 29th, 2009
4:35 pm
I was shocked to see that Schafer has more K’s than Ryan Howard and Adam Dunn, I thought those two would have passed up #24 by now since he does seem to make contact at least once a game. We can’t trade Frenchy until he gets hot(if he ever does). His value is so low that we would get garbage in return…..KJ is playing well defensively but I agree with Boog that we should let him try CF to sit the kid down for a few days and let Prado play 2nd base
ncscoots
May 29th, 2009
4:36 pm
BTW, a 21 year old John Smoltz made 12 starts, going 2-7 with a 5.48 ERA that year.
…while fans screamed for “more seasoning”, I reckon.
Charlie Morton, 15 starts, 4-8, 6.15 ERA, 2008; just because I could look it up.
RHR
May 29th, 2009
4:37 pm
CB –
And I’m not even remotely blonde.
Efrim
May 29th, 2009
4:37 pm
“And this is where Efrim gets mad that I think we should trade the excess 2nd base abundant LH bat for an outfield bat in a Francouer package, just thinking that I hate KJ, but not realizing I think the team is better with more RH .300 hitting bats… Yes, package them both with a good pitching prospect to Houston for Pence, if it can be done.”
Bobby’s, I think you just want Prado to start man. I think Kelly Johnson is the better player, what do you want me to say? Could he be traded at some point within the near future? It’s possible. He isn’t THAT young. He’ll be turning 28 next year, is in the midst of his arbitration years(his first netting him 2.8 million) and he will be a free agent after 2011. All that said, you think Martin Prado is a better baseball player than Kelly Johnson, and that is where we disagree.
Daniel
May 29th, 2009
4:37 pm
ncscoots- I just feel like DOB- is stating the obvious. BTW- his job is based around blogging.
Bobby's Cox
May 29th, 2009
4:39 pm
Scoots,
I read your Marchman article & agree with it. Pretty much, it says it’s better to trade for prospects than a big bat. It makes some cases as why some guys like Beltre might work in St. Louis etc…but the gist is: getting a big bat normally only yields you 3-4 more wins in a given season.
That pretty much adds fuel to the fire of the Tex trade. But, it also confirms what I’m saying that we should go after a smaller bat like Pence. Marchman says most guys struggle in their first 2 years. Pence is in his 3rd year now and is doing quite well. Give up prospects and proven ML for an established prospect that will help your team. That’s been my stance since the trade discussions opened up.
Duke
May 29th, 2009
4:41 pm
DOB, ever listened to Grizzly Bear? They have a new album out and it’s tasty as fu**.
JasoninAtl
May 29th, 2009
4:42 pm
Ronald and beekay,
I say this as a guy who has always rooted for Frenchy. He is a sunk cost, and his track record shows he is what he is. Batting him fourth will change nothing (one game is proof of nothing). He is below replacement value, meaning that even if we wanted to trade him, nobody would take him for anything of value to the Braves organization. The right thing to do is at least platoon him, if not bench him or demote him, in my opinion.
ncscoots
May 29th, 2009
4:44 pm
ncscoots- I just feel like DOB- is stating the obvious. BTW- his job is based around blogging.
You really think his job is this blog? I don’t speak for the man, but, I’d guess that he wouldn’t agree.
terry pendelton
May 29th, 2009
4:48 pm
hey DOB,
if we go 0-7 on this road trip, am i as good as gone?
Macon Braves (RIP)
May 29th, 2009
4:49 pm
ncscoots- I just feel like DOB- is stating the obvious. BTW- his job is based around blogging.
You really think his job is this blog? I don’t speak for the man, but, I’d guess that he wouldn’t agree.
I’d guess he wouldn’t agree….and will state his disagreement soon on that statement. Blogging is his job? Uh oh….
ncscoots
May 29th, 2009
4:49 pm
Bobby’s, I don’t know that my take on the Marchman article is exactly the same as yours, LOL.
CB
May 29th, 2009
4:50 pm
RHE-lol
Bobby's Cox
May 29th, 2009
4:50 pm
Fleming,
You’re pretty funny trying to rattle me & stuff. I have 2 words for you, “sample size” lol
Macon Braves (RIP)
May 29th, 2009
4:50 pm
I’d guess he wouldn’t agree as well, I meant.
CB
May 29th, 2009
4:51 pm
RHR- I must be.
Joe Fan
May 29th, 2009
4:53 pm
Do the Braves really want to throw another $1 million at Glavine when thay have the likes of hanson, Medlin, or Morton to fill the 5th spot? Which move would create the most fan interest and which would lend itself the most towards building for the futre? 2009 is toast for the Braves unless a miracle happens and that includes the Phils or Mets not making marjor player moves. Get the pieces in place to make a run in 2011 and that includes a quality pick in the this years draft.
SuckItBennett
May 29th, 2009
4:55 pm
As soon as I made my 1st ever post on this blog, which I’ve now been following since the offseason, under this name, Bennett has not walked in a run with the bases load, taken a loss, or possible even given up a run for that matter. I wander if the same thing will work if I change my name to “SuckItFrancoeur???”
CB
May 29th, 2009
4:55 pm
DOB is thinking- GET BACK!!
N8
May 29th, 2009
4:56 pm
“…while fans screamed for “more seasoning”, I reckon.” scoots
You mean all twelve of them? That’s been my point for months (even going back to last year). The pressure on these young guys to perform and perform NOW, is based on Wren and JS saying we intend on competing for a playoff spot, and then going out and making free agent moves and trades attempting to do just that.
Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, and even Pete Smith had ZERO pressure on them, because NOBODY was in the stands, and nobody and their mother ever remotely thought that the Braves were going to win anything. Hell, half way through the 91 “worst to first” season, Daryl Strawberry (on the Dodgers at the time), was more worried about the 3rd place Reds, than the Braves, and said so publicly. NOBODY took them seriously.
But don’t tell Shaun that. All major leaguers have the same amount of pressure to perform.
I suspect part of why the Braves of the 90’s were good, is because those pitchers were ALLOWED to come along slowly. Just like the Rays of last year.
Again. I pose the question. Who had/has more pressure. CC Sabathia to try and live up to that contract. Or Tom Glavine circa 1987?
Shaun would say it was equal.
I don’t think there is anything wrong, with guys being expected to perform when they arrive. But it would be nice if they had the cusion to fail, so we don’t give up on somebody too soon.
Say, for instance…. Jeff Francoeur. In 1987, he’d be given a free pass for 4 or 5 years, until somebody obviously better came along. Now, if he doesn’t perform to a level that might have been a fluke, he’s gonna get run out of town.
When Wren made moves to compete in 2009 (signing Lowe, trading Flowers for Vazquez, spending 24 million on Kawakami, signing Garret, etc…), that tells me as a fan that he/we won’t accept losing of failure. They are spending the max allowed by ownership on payroll to win NOW. Thus ticket prices remain high in a tough economic time.
Sure there would be some fans griping if they went REALLY young, and forced fans to take their lumps with the youngsters, but the payoff at the end could be as exciting as 91 was. Along with it being the beginning of a new run.
With big free agent dollars being spent, along with fan favorites getting run out the door, the pressure is on to win. So I’ve got no patince for Jo-Jo right now. If Wren had stated that 2009 was a bridge to a new tomorrow and ALL young players were going to be given an entire season to show what they can do, perhaps longer, my patience would be much greater. As would others.
Bobby's Cox
May 29th, 2009
4:56 pm
Scoots,
then what is your take on it? I mean, the whole 2nd page was all heresay & speculation. The 1st page was all about how teams spent $4.5 million for an expected win this past winter on the FA market. He says trading for prospects is far more valuable. He pretty much states that teams won’t trade big name guys (Victor Martinez for example) unless they get major prospects in return.
How don’t you agree with my take on the deal. I agree with you that these proposals on here are ludicrous unless we give up Hanson, Heyward, Freeman, Medlen, or Gorkys. For some of those guys mentioned, we’d have to deal 2.
Frenchy won’t net us anything of value I presume. I don’t see how I’m that far off from what the article is implying.
bravesphanatic004
May 29th, 2009
4:57 pm
Cvan,
diaz’s hustle is about the only thing i like about the braves right now. i mean EVERY single time dude is busting it down the line…. chipper on the other hand is the anti-diaz. he walks to first. but i guess because you are a veteran and have made tens of millions over your career you dont have to hustle….. or could be because he is a girlie man and he could somehow hurt his pinkie finger running a ground ball out and be out for a couple of weeks. and people wonder why this team fails so often…..look who is leading this club. someone who wants off every other day and doesnt hustle because of “injury”.