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2,175 comments Add your comment
N8
May 27th, 2009
2:13 pm
I think the fact that everybody wants to ignore, when discussing Tex’s “impact” on this team last year and in 2007, is that AFTER we traded him to the Angels, the team averaged 4.814 runs per game in 54 games, after averaging 4.398 runs per game in the 108 games WITH him from the start of the season.
And that was with Kotchman’s personal issues and lack of hitting for the first month after the trade.
This year? 4.31 runs per game in 45 games. A whopping .1 run less per game than with Tex in the lineup. Worth 20+ million dollars? Not a chance.
Here’s the thing. I think the RIGHT hitter would be worth a deal. But in the end Tex wasn’t (and still isn’t) worth the money or the prospects we gave up. He’s a stat monger who essentially makes ZERO impact on his teams.
I said it last year, and I’ll say it again. Any team built around Tex will NOT win a WS title. He’s not that guy. To say that he made Chipper a Batting Champion is insulting to Chipper’s ability to hit.
Willy Wally
May 27th, 2009
2:13 pm
Shaun, I’m not saying that getting Tex was a mistake. I believe the total opposite. You’re joining the conversation late here. All I’m saying is big bat, big arm, doesn’t matter, get one or the other. Holliday or Peavy, I don’t care. Get one or the other.
And the reason I picked out May 1st through July 31st was just to merely show that at the time of the Tex trade, the Braves had gone through a long stretch of time (84 games) where their offense wasn’t any better than it is today. Ya gotta go back and look at transactions and why they were done as a reaction to the reality of that moment. Explore the trends and data available at that date. The Braves wanted a big arm, but settled for a big bat because there weren’t any big arms out there. Folks today think this whole thing will get fixed with a big bat, and that it’s dumb to think about adding an arm. They stick their heads in the sand and refuse to see just how similar this team is to the 2007 team.
TRAVIS
May 27th, 2009
2:13 pm
Choppertochipper…Lets take your points one at a time…French was supposed to be the coming of David Justice from the right side…it didn’t happen but who could have believed that with all the positive feed back the braves were getting from Chipper and the like that he was turning it around that he wasn’t making progress? All those eggs in one basket called a pitching staff can and should maintain 3.5 era or there abouts with a better number 5. So to say it can’t last goes against history with a good starting 5…Not getting Adam Dunn for 5 mil a year was a blessing not a curse…He wasn’t worth it then or now…Tex left the Braves because with Huddy hurt and a starting rotation with no real ace for the next year meant Tex couldn’t win with this team and he could make more money almost anywhere else…We heard several time that the Braves only had so much money to spend on a big bat and that was it…I for one think the Braves would much worse off if Lowe would have ended up in NY! Comments?
McFann Ô
May 27th, 2009
2:16 pm
That tooth ad is EVERYWHERE! My word…if BMac had a double for every time that thing pops up on here, he’d break the doubles record for everyday players!
c jonze
May 27th, 2009
2:17 pm
PWHjort is right… No one is a bigger fan favorite than Roberts, they had plenty of good opportunities to trade him this offseason, but instead signed him to an extension.
PWHjort
May 27th, 2009
2:17 pm
Billy Walsh,
You couldn’t be more wrong about Feliz. He was one of the centerpieces, if not THE centerpiece, of the Tex deal. Hardly a throw in. Beau Jones was the throw in, if there is one.
Ryan in TN
May 27th, 2009
2:18 pm
Everybody is dreaming if they think that the Braves are going to make a deal for a power bat. To do so they would have to give up Tommy Hanson, Medlen and Gorkys. In case people don’t realize, The pitchers we have are getting old. Lowe is 36, Huddy,Javy, and KK are all in their early thirties. We are going to need Medlen,Hanson, and some of the other guys in a year or two. As much as I would like to see the Bravos in the World Series, they are more than just a Power bat away. Their lineup and pitching just doesn’t match up with an AL team. Now if we could make some moves for next year it would be great. I think 2010 is our best shot if Hanson is ready and Huddy returns to his previous form. We need a consistant closer, something all contenders have, Gonzo has been shaky at best. Not to mention the salary cap. The reason we got stuck with Garret Anderson is because he is all we could afford. We all know Dunn was a far much better fit, inserting him would have given us the power we are so desperate for but is price was too steep. I think you will see the Braves stand pat and see how everything shakes out, because our top prospects could be in ATL as soon as next year and they dont want to let them go.
Bayou Brave
May 27th, 2009
2:19 pm
Two sites are now reporting that the Red Sox are interested in acquiring Jeff Francoeur. Does anyone think it would be possible to get Michael Bowden in exchange? The Red Legs already have a surplus of starting pitchers in the Big Show.
AndyD
May 27th, 2009
2:21 pm
DOB, as much as I hate to say it. Shaefer probably needs a stint back in the minors to work out his problems and regain some confidence. And Francouer is proving to be less than desired. The Braves need a big bopper or they’ll find themselves looking up at the rest of the NL East. Surely the brass knows this.
c jonze
May 27th, 2009
2:21 pm
Washington paid $20 million for two years of Adam Dunn, BTW…
ncscoots
May 27th, 2009
2:23 pm
Folks today think this whole thing will get fixed with a big bat, and that it’s dumb to think about adding an arm.
Either one, is correct. Getting some run differential deeper in the rotation couldn’t hurt. And you know I’m a “bat” guy, LOL. An impact bat would help maximize team wins from the three pitchers who actually are creating some differential, but probably not enough to offset the so-far underperforming 4 and 5 pitchers. Just depends on the front-office crystal ball…if they think the back of the rotation will rise to average performance, look for a bat. If not, get an arm. Shoot, get both, maybe that will satisfy some of these dullards here.
Original Jon
May 27th, 2009
2:25 pm
Ryan in TN. Sounds like you are giving up on the season already and looking forward to next year, when the reality is that the Braves are only 2.5 games out of first with over 117 games left to play. Plenty of time to catch up and win the East, if not the wild card. Our pitching has been what has kept in the games, and our offense shows signs of brilliance at times, but its inconsistent because we do not have that power threat hitting behind Chipper. If the Braves had a consistent power bat, then the lineup itself would fall into a groove and not be shuffled around all the time. Think about it dude.
Shaun
May 27th, 2009
2:26 pm
Jeff R, no one knows how good Andrus can be offensively. We’ll see.
Harrison doesn’t have as much upside as many believe. Check out his minor league numbers (the things he could control like strikeouts, walks and homers). He was far from a dominant pitcher. I don’t think he’s the ace that some project him to be. Yes, I think he’ll be a good major league pitcher but nothing I see indicates he’ll be an ace.
My favorite: Salty as a firstbaseman. Salty looses lots of value on defense and on offense as a firstbaseman. Take Salty’s OBP and SLG this year and be very generous and assume that moving from behind the plate would add 50 points to both his OBP and SLG. He’s in the Jorge Cantu, Billy Butler range and that’s playing his home games in Texas.
bravesgirlnc
May 27th, 2009
2:27 pm
No way the Red Sox are giving up Bowden. Not for Frenchy. It is rumored they are talking to Cleveland about LaPorta
N8
May 27th, 2009
2:28 pm
“The blog’s gone so lame…”
I disagree. What has happened in the three years I’ve been blogging is that the team has played consistently mediocre baseball, and even the most optimistic, Bobby loving fans have begun to become fed up with it.
You still have your eternal optimists that always think the “turn around” is right around the corner. And guys like me, who don’t. But three years of under-achieving has made people edgy, in my estimation.
Stinky has been replaced with other’s that spew nonsense. About the only thing you don’t have is some of the original optimists that left the blog long ago.
DOB is still leading the way with Braves talk along with his music and movie opinions, you still have crazed “in game” bloggers analyzing every pitch as (and sometimes before) it happens. I’ve tried to refrain from in game bloggin, and when I do it’s usually just because that’s when there is the most traffic.
But to say the blog has gone lame is silly. Not much has changed. Just the monikers making the same statements that have ALWAYS been a part of this blog.
N8
May 27th, 2009
2:29 pm
Perhaps we can trade Francoeur for Smoltz? LOL!
a643dp
May 27th, 2009
2:31 pm
My mistake on base percentage(OBP) sorry. What I was trying to get at was that the Mets have better patience at the plate and are more agressive on the base. The Mets if you include walks, hits, 2nd,3rd,HR and SBs. They have a total of 879 total bases. The Braves have a total of 771 bases. That equals 108 extra bases for the Mets(65 are from SBs and BBs). So take away just the 43 bases from the hitting point of view and focus on the BBs and SBs. 65 divided by 8 weeks of the season comes out to be 8 bases a week (1.33 bases a game.) 1.33 bases a week could mean a win or a loss AKA: Beltran stealing third in the 9th. This team needs to change some things, we cant hit HRs so we need to do what teams that dont hit homeruns do. Work the count, get into the other team bullpen, steal bases, make more contact, ABC baseball. Frenchy and Schafer are making that impossible to do.
MFin04
May 27th, 2009
2:33 pm
It’s not just about getting the BIG bat…it’s about putting guys in position to succeed and removing those who are causing us to fail every single game.
The outfield has got to change. GA, Schafer, and Frenchy are all not working and grouped together they look even worse. The outfield/lineup would look A LOT better with a power bat and some other changes in the outfield. Something has to be done about that.
It couldn’t possibly hurt to play Diaz, Brandon Jones, Prado, Infante, and even KJ, in the outfield along side the Big Bat the Braves acquire.
This starting rotation with the addition of Hanson and Hudson has got to be one of top 3 rotations in all of baseball. If Kawakami continues to get better and better and shows the brilliance he had against the Blue Jays there is no reason this team can’t compete.
It isn’t one change, it’s multiple, but the team has options.
Ryan in TN
May 27th, 2009
2:35 pm
Original Jon, I am certainly not giving up on the current season, I am just simply stating that the odds of us getting an impact bat are very slim. If you really look what hitters that may be available can come in and give us the impact that we need. Matt Holliday? the price would be too steep for him as well as the possibility of Carlos Lee. They could possibly get a Ryan Ludwick, or Brad Hawpe but neither fit that bill. All i’m saying is we have the potential of having the 4 Aces again in Jurrjens, Hanson, Medlen, and one of the other prospects. To me Gorkys is the most promising CF simply because of his speed, and anybody who follows the braves knows what Heyward and Freeman bring to the table. I would for once like to see us look to the future instead of mortgaging it for the now. We have the youth coming up to make another run at 14 straight and I for one would love to see that happen
CB
May 27th, 2009
2:36 pm
N8 all the optimists are not gone , we just get drowned out sometimes by the hating, screaming types. lol
MGL
May 27th, 2009
2:36 pm
I agree with Shaun’s 1:55 re the Tex trade 100%. There is not a single player given up in that trade that would be contributing to the problems that we have today. (Don’t spout this Salty at 1st crap, Kotchman is a far superior first sacker).
The only reason I wish that trade had not happened is that I would not have to wear out my scroll button getting past this continuous complaining from some of you pointy-heads over that trade. Maybe the Braves could have traded this set of players for something else for you to gripe about.
Bayou Brave
May 27th, 2009
2:38 pm
bravesgirlnc, who is rumored to be talking to Cleveland about Laporta? The Red Sox or the Braves?
MFin04
May 27th, 2009
2:39 pm
“We have the youth coming up to make another run at 14 straight and I for one would love to see that happen” LOL, that made me smile
I’d like to see that happen too.
Brooklyn Braves Brawler
May 27th, 2009
2:39 pm
I rather have Hawpe for 2 years than Holliday for one. I just have no idea who you give up. You almost have to make 2 deals cause i think you still have to trade Frenchy even if you get a bat of substance.
I hear the Red Sox are interested, don’t know why plus hawpe and Frenchy play the same position.
Brooklyn Braves Brawler
May 27th, 2009
2:41 pm
Is LaPorta a righty?
Bravesfan
May 27th, 2009
2:41 pm
I don’t understand how people can compare J. Anderson and Schafer. Schafer came out of AA ball. J. Anderson had plenty of AAA experience and something like 200 career ABs in the majors. So, sure, Anderson might be a bit more productive right now but it’s no wonder. If Josh Anderson was capable of being a superstar in the outfield, I doubt the Astros and the Braves would have given up on him so easily. That being said, Schafer probably would be better off right now if he had been assigned to AAA ball.
Couch Tater
May 27th, 2009
2:42 pm
McFann,
You may be able to purchase the photo.
http://gwinnettdailypost.mycapture.com/mycapture/category.asp?CategoryID=48575
bravesgirlnc
May 27th, 2009
2:43 pm
Boston is rumored to be talking to Cleveland. I just googled Michael Bowden’s name to see what people were saying. I know I read something yesterday where they turned down and offer for Bowden, but I could not find it.
Frenchy just has very little trade value, and Bowden and Buchholz are their Hanson and Medlen. They are fielding offers for Brad Penny b/c they have both of these guys in the wings. Frenchy is not really and dangling carrot that is going to get us the help we need.
Capt. Caveman
May 27th, 2009
2:43 pm
YO N8 — surely you are forgetting about me, staunch Braves supporter and arch-nemesis to COACH !!!
Go Bravos !!
Give Me A Break
May 27th, 2009
2:44 pm
“My favorite: Salty as a firstbaseman. Salty looses lots of value on defense and on offense as a firstbaseman. Take Salty’s OBP and SLG this year and be very generous and assume that moving from behind the plate would add 50 points to both his OBP and SLG. He’s in the Jorge Cantu, Billy Butler range and that’s playing his home games in Texas.”
We’ve heard value over and over again when hearing from the numbers dudes. Not saying Salty is capable. Not saying any other specific guy is capable.
Let’s just put it this way. A catching prospect gets moved from behind the plate because there isn’t an opening for him. Suddenly everyone yells, “he’ll lose value! His best value is to remain a catcher!” Ok so the story continues. After the move to first base, the guy puts up Ryan Howard numbers. He hits 45 dingers and knocks in 124.
You can’t convince me that some team is going to come back and say, “we can’t use that guy who hit 45 and knocked in 124. If only he was a catcher! He lost his value when they moved him!”
Give me a freakin’ break!
I heard that till I wanted to puke when Salty was with Atlanta. At the end of the day, Salty’s value was de-valued when the Braves had to send him and the whole damn Mormon Tabernacle Choir with him to get TEX! He wasn’t a piece of gold, he was just one of a bag of dimes.
That trade is still used as an example of a team hitting the jackpot by trading a “walk away” potential free agent like Tex. John Heyman of SI used it again today when discussing what the Pads could get for Adrian Gonzalas.
If baseball was all about stats, there would never be any surprises and the game is FULL of surprises each and every day.
a643dp
May 27th, 2009
2:44 pm
MGL- I agree the Tex trade was a good trade for us we just go all of our pitchers hurt. If Smoltz would have been healthy and Hudson as well we wouldnt have traded for Vazquez we wouldnt have gotten lowe. We might have had a shot a Tex in a long term contract before it got all crazy with the Yankees and Red Sox. Nobody knows so all the gripe about the Tex trade is just rediculous. I guarantee nobody was B!tching when he stepped into the batters box for the 1st time wearing that Braves jersey back in Aug 07.
c jonze
May 27th, 2009
2:44 pm
Fox Sports on Smotz’s rehab start:
“He’s not the John Smoltz we all know and love, that’s for sure,” one scout said. “That fluid arm action he had, it’s kind of restricted. He’s kind of pushing the ball. You could see the shoulder is not 100 percent.
“His velocity was 87 to 90 mph. He still throws five decent pitches. But he’s probably a fourth starter at this point unless his arm speed and fluidness comes back and his velocity takes a jump.”
The second scout also noted the restriction in Smoltz’s delivery, saying, “I would have some concerns about his breaking stuff.” The scout added that Smoltz’s velocity dropped to 85 mph in his third inning.
“He still commands the ball well, but he had a fringe-average fastball, an average curveball at best, a little bit better than average slider, a little changeup,” the first scout said. “His split, the best ones were in the dirt. The ones that were strikes were just average. They weren’t swing-and-miss pitches.”
ncscoots
May 27th, 2009
2:46 pm
nathan, why am I not surprised that you disagree with my “lame” assertion, LOL? Gawd. You have about a double-handful of folks here who actually post anything worth reading, and the rest are just pictures on the milk carton for walking catatonia. Numbletards who know nothing about baseball and insist on talking of nothing but baseball. Not an original or diverse thought in the bunch, and an immaturity that almost makes that smarmy suckwad Anders look good by comparison. Almost.
I blame you, of course. For no good reason, naturally. Just trying to get in the spirit of the brave new blog world that is now as it always was, in your estimation. Pardon me if I don’t recognize that sumbee just right off the bat.
MFin04
May 27th, 2009
2:50 pm
Smoltz isn’t really Smoltz until he gets in front of a large crowd, the pressure is on, and the competitive spirit in him comes out. The guy just has a hunger to win and you have to love his drive to compete.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
May 27th, 2009
2:50 pm
N8 , ninety-nine percent of the time, Tommy Hanson should be off the table when talking trade. It’s the one percent that I’m thinking about right now. There is one single position player that I would pull the trigger on for Tommy Hanson.
Adrian Gonzalez.
I fully realize this statement is way outside the box. But so was Josh Hamilton for Edinson Volquez. It would take Hanson and three or four more players in exchange for Gonzalez and one or two players the Braves could use right now.
I know, it’s way out there and has almost no chance of happening. But it’s what the Rangers and Reds did and it’s working out for both teams beautifully.
Bill M.
May 27th, 2009
2:50 pm
If the Braves can’t trade for a bat, why not bring up Gorky and Heyward. Trade francouer and release Anderson. Can’t be any worse than it is now. I know some people will say it would stunt their growth. Their defense would be alot better. Schafer would be better if he was batting toward top of lineup. It’s tough for a young hitter to bat eighth. I think the Braves need another batting coach. Don’t know what TP is doing but he is not helping or the playes rmay not listen to him.
DAP
May 27th, 2009
2:51 pm
brooklyn braves brawler I rather have Hawpe for 2 years than Holliday for one. I just have no idea who you give up.
it really depends on what the rockies are looking for…but im thinking they want guys right on the verge of being ML players. guys who make the minimum, and can be controlled for awhile. brandon jones, gorkys, medlen, morton, jojo, acosta, valdez, and maybe some lower level pitchers like locke would be in the mix. this would give the rockies salary relief and some pieces for the future.
frenchy doesnt block hawpe, if the braves were to get him. frenchy can just sit on the bench. plus, there are two outfield corners to choose from…
Shaun
May 27th, 2009
2:54 pm
Salty has a .718 OPS. That would be 29th best among firstbasemen with 100 plate appearances. If you added 100 points, he would still be tied with Aubrey Huff for 20th best.
Last year his OPS was .716. He would have been 29th best among 1B with at least 225 PA. Add 100 points and he’s at 18th best.
Salty should get better. But nothing indicates he can hit enough to be much more than a slightly below average hitting firstbaseman. And his defense isn’t good enough to make up for his below average for firstbase bat. If the Braves had believed in Salty as a firstbaseman, they wouldn’t have dealt him. But they were smart enough to realize that he’s a catcher.
CB
May 27th, 2009
2:55 pm
ncscoots it sounds like you are discouraged by the bloggers that are spewing hatred and negativity. I have been doing this less than a year and at times I get the same feelings, and then I read some of the fine posts from people like you, Steve from Ohio,N8, and many others that I can not name. We need people like yourself to keep this place level headed and fun for the rest of us. Thank you very much for that.
njbraves
May 27th, 2009
2:56 pm
Heyward is not coming up any time soon!!! get it through your thick skulls!!!
N8
May 27th, 2009
2:56 pm
scoots,, that’s the second time in less than a week that somebody has dropped a “milk carton” reference on me. My brother in law, at his step-son’s B-Day party was about to melt down on him, and when his wife asked him to snap a couple of photos, he said “I suppose I better, so they have a recent photo for the milk carton.”
Anyhow. Maybe I’m more tolerant of the nonsense and hatred, because, A) I’ve never been the most optimistic person on this blog once the season gets rolling, and B) If I recognize the blogger as somebody that doesn’t usually have a thought provoked posting history, I simply scroll past (what I’m sure a lot of people do with my posts).
So I either agree with somebody who is griping, (but doing it within reason), or am able to block out the rest.
I know you were kidding (maybe) about blaming me. But I sure hope that you (and even DOB) don’t put me into the same yelling, screaming, childish nonsense that some here have. I realize I rant, and most of the time it’s just to spark conversation/debate with the optimists. But even in my everlasting state of “bowl of sadness”, I’m not fueled by hatred and anger.
Just like to complain. But I think I’ve shown throughout this season, that capable (and willing) to praise the team and it’s players when it’s called for.
Besides, when the team isn’t playing that well, I enjoy wathcing Coach and others go at it with each other. I’d actually rather read other people arguing and ranting, than post it myself. Entertaining stuff, whether you agree with them or not.
Give Me A Break
May 27th, 2009
3:00 pm
Maybe there should be a “high brow” and a “low brow” blog.
All the high roaders could go to the highbrow blog and the gutter wallowers like me could go to the lowbrow blog.
Sounds like the highbrow club would be more comfortable with “War and Peace” where the rest of us struggle to get through TV Guide.
David O'Brien
May 27th, 2009
3:00 pm
DOB, as much as I hate to say it. Shaefer probably needs a stint back in the minors to work out his problems and regain some confidence. And Francouer is proving to be less than desired. The Braves need a big bopper or they’ll find themselves looking up at the rest of the NL East. Surely the brass knows this. — AndyD
I’m glad you added that last sentence. Andy, I think most everyone who’s not comatose has realized everything you wrote to be apparent for some time.
David O'Brien
May 27th, 2009
3:02 pm
Shaun, good points at 2:54.
Shaun
May 27th, 2009
3:02 pm
Give Me A Break, I’m not sure I understand your point. If Salty could hit like Howard, he could play first. But the whole point is that his bat is not good enough for firstbase and his defense is not good enough at first to put him there as an inadequate hitter there.
Billy Walsh
May 27th, 2009
3:02 pm
PWHjort,
Salty and Andrus were the centerpieces in that deal. They were the top rated prospects in the braves organization. In 2007 Feliz was in Danville (Rookie Ball). Up to that point he started a total of 19 games for the braves (11 in the gulf coast league and 8 with Danville).
ncscoots
May 27th, 2009
3:02 pm
Sounds like the highbrow club would be more comfortable with “War and Peace” where the rest of us struggle to get through TV Guide.
Aiming a little high for “the rest of us”, aren’t you, speedy?
richbrave
May 27th, 2009
3:03 pm
N8:
Not a bad take on the current status of the old blog. Gee, we’re getting to be old-timers N8. Not sure we’ve ever shared much banter. I suppose we’re close to the polar opposites on all things BRAVES. Still, I have enjoyed your comments on occasion, and some well taken in my estimation.
Mitchie-san
May 27th, 2009
3:03 pm
There has been an increase in hatred and negativity over the years and it has diluted the blog. Personally, I cant stand the DOB bashers that come around here. DOB works hard for us and it should always be appreciated.
RHR
May 27th, 2009
3:04 pm
I agree with CB. There are some lamers here(and maybe I’m considered one of them!) for sure but I scroll past those pretty quickly most of the time. Agree or disagree with the opinion – there are a lot of good, lively and smart discussions going on here every day about baseball and other things. Viva la blog!
FaninFaytown
May 27th, 2009
3:04 pm
My only problem with gonzalez is that he does not address our biggest concern. Kotchman is not the prototypical first baseman who hits for power. However, he has not been bad this season and when put at the 2 hole or down in the order he is more than capable of getting on base and knocking guys in. Adrian Gonzalez does not fix the outfield, unless thast where you want to play him.
Steve from OH
May 27th, 2009
3:05 pm
scoots, I got a good laugh at your 3:02, good stuff.
P-Town Brave
May 27th, 2009
3:06 pm
N8-
I agree, and really, anyone could see that Tex was a guy who got most of his hits, RBI, and HR in low leverage situations when we were up or down by a wide margin…
Asking him to get a bit hit in a big situation was highly unlikely…a clutch hitter behind Chipper would be just what we would need….
Some that were mentioned, here are their numbers in pressure situations and w/ RISP:
Magglio Ordonez .327/.386/.499 AND .333/.409/.531
Jose Guillen .280/.333/.417 AND .268/.329/.400
David DeJesus .295/.376/.444 AND .309/.399/.421 (not a cleanup hitter obviously)
Jermaine Dye .274/.336/.461 AND .259/.337/.428
Grady Sizemore .267/.377/.455 AND .268/.396/.439
Rick Ankiel .225/.268/.371 AND .274/.323/.522 (includes stats as pitcher)
Lance Berkman .319/.435/.572 AND .303/.447/.542
Brad Hawpe .275/.380/.468 AND .284/.403/.491
Take what you want from the list, but it really looks as though Berkman and Ordonez are by far the best, although may cost the most (Ordonez- money; Berkman- prospects)….Any of the options are better than Jeff Francoeur though (except Dye and Guillen in RISP)
Billy Walsh
May 27th, 2009
3:06 pm
PWHjort,
here is the link for you.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/263052.html
Brooklyn Braves Brawler
May 27th, 2009
3:06 pm
DOB, you watch Mental “premier” on Fox last night. Pretty good show, it’s like House only in a mental institution check it out.
What would the Rockies want for Hawpe and Atkins/Spillboroughs?
CB
May 27th, 2009
3:07 pm
Give Me A Break there could be a group in between who do not wish players to die,who don’t scream obscenities or threaten other bloggers with bodily harm or is this too much to ask?
chris from md
May 27th, 2009
3:07 pm
I truly believe that there will be little to no interest in Frenchy and that Kelly Johnson is our best major league trading chip. I see our package being him, Medlen or Morton, and another minor leaguer. Yes, it thins out our middle infield depth but it’d be well worth it to acquire an of. We could then put Anderson, Frenchy, or Diaz in right with Prado filling in at 2b until Infante returns.
chris from md
N8
May 27th, 2009
3:08 pm
Coach, I’m OK with “outside the box”. I think the outside the box trades are usually the ones that work for both teams.
Also, I think Adrian Gonzalez is a fine 1B and those numbers would certainly be bigger in any other ball park.
But here’s my stance on trading Hanson for him. If it were the deadline and we were not only in position to take the division but make a REAL run at the WS, then maybe you make that move if you think Gonzalez is the “missing link”. Think Detroit with Doyle in 87. Think 93 with McGriff. Think Denny Neagle.
But I’m not willing to give up the possibility of what Hanson could do for us for the next decade, on what Gonzalez might do for us for this year or next and then be gone.
Now, if the Padres would be interested in Hanson, Kotchman, Francoeur and another prospect or two (not Escobar) for Gonzalez and Peavy, AND allow us a window to sign them to extensions? Make the move.
But that’s adding a ton of payroll to an already heavy payroll on the pitching side.
MFin04
May 27th, 2009
3:08 pm
I like Berkman, how realistic is that scenario?
Mitchie-san
May 27th, 2009
3:08 pm
And Ms. Rodgers too…
Thrillhouse44
May 27th, 2009
3:09 pm
Agree with the sentiments Mitchie-san, ncscoots, N8, and others. Certain bloggers’ negativity and immaturity have changed this place. But its posters like ya’ll and others that have to keep coming with strong, thought-out posts to hopefully drive the others away.
Turtsnap
May 27th, 2009
3:09 pm
With a slight variation of Jack Nicholson’s famous line in Batman……..
“THIS TEAM NEEDS AN ENIMA!!!!”
DAP
May 27th, 2009
3:09 pm
FaninFaytownMy only problem with gonzalez is that he does not address our biggest concern.
well, hes batting .280/.379/.607 with 17 homers….so i think he would go along way towards closing that gap. obviously, our outfield would still be bad, but we would make that up from other positions if we had a guy like gonzalez.
that said, i dont think its going to happen, and you can count me among those who dont think we should trade hanson for anything. if there is a deal to be made, weve got pieces other than him to use. were talking about a guy who can anchor our rotation for the next 5 or 6 years.
Bay Area Steve
May 27th, 2009
3:10 pm
scoots,
all true. But, you’re required to stay. Sorry.
And, no refutation of Shaun’s Dayn Perry comment. I’ve lost two hours of work waiting for that would-be classic.
And, I think it’s well beyond a coupla handfuls. No less that five handfuls, in my estimation. No doubt they are hidden among the MFin09s of the world, and may be posting less because of it. Hence, you’re staying.
Steve from OH
May 27th, 2009
3:10 pm
I agree, and really, anyone could see that Tex was a guy who got most of his hits, RBI, and HR in low leverage situations when we were up or down by a wide margin…
What a friggin’ load of B.S. this is. Same thing as A-Rod, people expect them to get a hit every single time they step to the plate, and when they don’t, they’re somehow “not clutch” or whatever when that’s the furthest thing from the truth. Don’t believe me?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=teixema01&year=Career&t=b#clutc
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1281&position=1B#winprobability
Chop Chop
May 27th, 2009
3:11 pm
“War and Peace” is a good book.
Shaun
May 27th, 2009
3:11 pm
Coach (2010 or Bust), Volquez for Hamilton was very different. First, the Reds got two players. Second, firstbasemen are easier to find than centerfielders who hit like Hamilton. Third, Gonzalez is a about a year older than Hamilton was and Hanson is about a year younger than Volquez was. Fourth, I’d have to look it up but I don’t think Volquez was nearly the prospect Hanson is.
RHR
May 27th, 2009
3:12 pm
Funnel Escobar? Really NESN?
http://www2.nesn.com/eric-ortiz/2009/05/27/red-sox-should-be-shopping-for-a-shortstop/?1
ncscoots
May 27th, 2009
3:13 pm
Steve-OH, that’s probably just Braveheart under another moniker. He always gives me grief when I rant. Probably deservedly.
It’s not my intent to start some referendum on the quality of the blog, or anything of the sort. It is what it is. When it fails to offer a compelling reason to visit, then I don’t. Others are likewise free to exercise a different option, if desired. I only care about the **** that goes on my own bubblegum card.
Original Jon
May 27th, 2009
3:13 pm
Ryan in TN, I am with you on starting a run of another 14 titles, with a few more World Series titles along the way, but whats wrong with trying to start it this year? We have plenty of desired pitching not named Medlen, Hanson, or Jurrjens. How do you think most fans will react if the ownership decided to abandon this year by not going out and at least trying to get a big bat? How many fans do you think will not show up next year after giving up on this year? Probably a lot more than this year. and without attendance, there goes the payroll, down down down. NO payroll, no chance of bringing in anyone in the future. We have to try now. Not later.
DAP
May 27th, 2009
3:13 pm
volquez also had time in the majors, and he struggled.
Piedmont Blues (ex-BFIR)
May 27th, 2009
3:14 pm
Get Brad Hawpe!
I’ve been pushing for a Spilborghs deal for some time now, knowing that the Rox weren’t likely to deal a versatile guy making near the minimum. I never imagined they’d consider making Hawpe available. After all, he’s locked up for the next two years at a relatively affordable $17.5 MM (and that final $10 MM is a club option in 2011 that can be bought out for $500k).
Sure, he hits better at Coors than on the road, but his road OPS has been between .830 and .884 the past three years. In other words, signinficantly better than Frenchy over that period.
The Braves have the arms to make the deal, too, without shedding the system’s real prizes. And he’s about to turn 30. I like him a lot better than some of the older alternatives.
So what’s the downside?
MFin04
May 27th, 2009
3:15 pm
LOL, they really posted Funnel Escobar. They could sell Funnel Cakes at the stadium then, lol.
Steve from OH
May 27th, 2009
3:15 pm
I agree, and really, anyone could see that Tex was a guy who got most of his hits, RBI, and HR in low leverage situations when we were up or down by a wide margin…
What a load of crap. Unbelievable. Have you even looked at Tex’s stats? Honestly.
Hint–Tex is a career .296/.431/.573 (1.076 OPS) with 2 outs/RISP. Compare that to the guys you listed.
Bay Area Steve
May 27th, 2009
3:17 pm
Run Heap,
nice find. I like the comments-guy who corrected him with Yunnel.
Steve from OH
May 27th, 2009
3:18 pm
More Tex stuff, for you Tex-haters:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1281&position=1B#winprobability
winterville
May 27th, 2009
3:19 pm
Billy Walsh
Neftali was definitely not a throw in. Every time this comes up, DOB pulls up his archives and shows us the story that he wrote about the trade. It says something to the effect that “Neftali Feliz is the one prospect in the deal that could come back to haunt the Braves. He has a great fastball and blah blah blah.” Everyone knew he was a good prospect and the Rangers really wanted him in there. Just because he was young doesn’t mean he wasn’t highly regarded.
TennesseePaul
May 27th, 2009
3:19 pm
Scoots: “if they think the back of the rotation will rise to average performance, look for a bat. If not, get an arm”
I wonder if a pitcher is acquired to add even more depth to the deepest part of this team?? It seems it’d help in future trades. Trading this early would allow ample time for additional moves. Cheap bats might be worth the shot, such as Andruw Jones. He’s making very little and even that would be pro-rated. However, I would fear what would become of him once out from under Rudy Jaramillo. Obviously Francoeur falls apart when he isn’t around the guy. It’s a shame he has turned out to be a bad singles hitter. But I would be interested to find out what it would take to acquire him.
At any rate, acquire another young pitcher and then maybe Hawp or Holliday become more “easily” obtainable. Personally I’d rather have Hawp than Holliday… at that point it could be a net result of Hawp and AJ to the team with Francoeur exiting…
P-Town Brave
May 27th, 2009
3:19 pm
N8 and Give Me A Break-
Totally spot on w/ your recent comments…
If there was anything good to say, we’d all say it…if there was anything bad, we go that route…
Not everything can be chaotic all the time, nor can it all be roses…why lie or live in denial of what is really going on?
Just about EVERYONE knows we aren’t winning anything with the current roster…
richbrave
May 27th, 2009
3:20 pm
Can’t see any interrest in trading HANSON in any way, shape, or form. Case closed.
Shaun
May 27th, 2009
3:20 pm
Give Me A Break, if you can hit enough to be one of the best hitting firstbaseman, you can play anywhere. But if you hit like a pretty good offensive catcher hits, that probably means you are maybe you would be an average hitting firstbaseman. You see different positions have different thresholds of offensive ability in order to hold a job in the big leagues. That’s what we mean by a player losing value if you move him to another position.
Redstick19
May 27th, 2009
3:20 pm
Brad Hawpe. Go get him, Braves. He’s pretty consisitent the last few years, hits for average, has some pop in his bat and he drives runs in when they are on for him. He’s all things Francouer is not. Plus- he doesn’t have the ego of a superstar and he’s a great backup option at first base… he was a 1st baseman in college when LSU won a College World Series title. Get Brad Hawpe and watch him thrive in Atlanta.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
May 27th, 2009
3:21 pm
N8 , the Padres will almost certainly trade Jake Peavy. But no team in the game of baseball has the prospects to pull off both Peavy and Gonzalez. Besides, the reality is that the Padres would never consider trading Gonzalez unless somebody made an offer worth consideration.
Adrian Gonzalez is a cornerstone player. Sort of like Chipper in his prime. It would take something along the lines of Hanson, Kotchman and at least two or three more players before the Padres would even consider trading Gonzalez.
Like I said before, ninety-nine percent of the time, it would never happen.
FayinFaytown, the outfield in my opinion, can’t be fixed. Schafer is a work in progress, Frenchy is an underachiever, Anderson is way past his prime and Diaz is a fourth outfielder at best.
P-Town Brave
May 27th, 2009
3:21 pm
Steve-
Check his numbers w/ the Braves when we made a push for the division after we got him…also check the team numbers…not only did we not get better, but we actually lost more games once he became a Brave…
I don’t “hate” Tex as you so put it…I actually thought he was one of the better hitters to ever step on Turner Field, BUT life does go on…and he wasn’t a very personable guy either…
DAP
May 27th, 2009
3:22 pm
has anybody seen this?
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php
im not sure if i understand it right…but it looks like the mets have a 71% chance of making the playoffs… does that seem high to anyone else?
Give Me A Break
May 27th, 2009
3:23 pm
Shaun,
My point is until Salty actually played in the big leagues NO ONE knew what he was capable of. It’s only now, with some background in the bigs, that anyone has a real idea of what he will finally sort out to be.
Again my point is that some teams become fixated on where a player’s value will be, ie, Salty at catcher. If a guys name is Joe Blow and he can hit lotsa homers and drive in lotsa runs, it doesn’t matter where he takes the field as long as he doesn’t embarrass himself defensively.
Just think if the Red Sox and\or Yankees had decided that Babe Ruth’s true value would be playing a couple of times a week as a pitcher instead of being in the lineup every day.
Shaun, if you don’t understand that, I just don’t have anything else for ya!
MFin04
May 27th, 2009
3:23 pm
P-Town I agree. Obviously there needs to be a balance of positive and negative. But if there happens to be more negative than positive during the season, it probably is because the team is struggling and thus the negativity is deserved.
I agree this roster isn’t going to win it.
ncscoots
May 27th, 2009
3:23 pm
And, no refutation of Shaun’s Dayn Perry comment. I’ve lost two hours of work waiting for that would-be classic.
He made a Dayn Perry reference? I mean, other than “d-bag”?
OK, it’s Payne.
TennesseePaul
May 27th, 2009
3:25 pm
I don’t know about this “low-leverage” situation stuff for Teixeira but he is historically a second half guy (92 OPS+ in the first half, 109 OPS+ in the second), which would seem to ruin the idea that he only thrives in the easy moment. This season he is feasting on having A-Rod behind him just as Chipper feasted on having Teixeira behind him.
P-Town Brave
May 27th, 2009
3:25 pm
Redstick-
The question is, who do you send to Colorado?
I mean I would think Kelly would more than likely be in any deal as that really is the Braves one and only position of strength…after that, what do you give them for a guy thats signed thru 2011 (w/ club option)…would Kelly/Canizares/Morton get it done?
Does anyone have an idea of what Colorado is looking for in a Hawpe return?
Steve from OH
May 27th, 2009
3:25 pm
What, you mean when he posted a .283 BA with a .902 OPS? What a bum.
As for the clutch stats with the Braves? Gimme a friggin’ break. Just take a look at this and tell me if your “Tex isn’t clutch” statement carries any weight:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=teixema01&t=b&year=2007&team=ATL&per162=0
Coach (2010 or Bust)
May 27th, 2009
3:26 pm
Steve in Ohio, I agree my friend. Teixeira is on a Hall of Fame curve right now. Only time will tell if he keeps it up long enough to accumulate the numbers.
But yes, Brad Hawpe is the most realistic player out there who could help our Braves. I’m just not sure that he would be enough to get us over the top.
Give Me A Break
May 27th, 2009
3:26 pm
“You see different positions have different thresholds of offensive ability in order to hold a job in the big leagues. That’s what we mean by a player losing value if you move him to another position.”
Shaun, don’t tell Jordan Schafer that, ok?
Billy Walsh
May 27th, 2009
3:26 pm
winterville,
I agree that Feliz was a good prospect in 2007, but he was not the centerpiece in the tex deal. He didnt pitch above Rookie Ball with the braves in 2007.
a643dp
May 27th, 2009
3:27 pm
Cubs just brought up Jake Fox today, Rays brought up David Price Monday, Os bringing up Mat Wieters Friday. Can we follow suit and bring up Hanson Sunday.
Willy Wally
May 27th, 2009
3:28 pm
Scoots, that wasn’t Braveheart under a different moniker …. not Willy Wally either.
braves70
May 27th, 2009
3:28 pm
Matt LaPorta just got sent back to AAA today by the Indians. They are not afraid to admit someone needs more time. Are you listening Braves?
Shaun
May 27th, 2009
3:30 pm
Coach (2010 or Bust), if I’m the Padres, I would seriously consider trading Gonzalez straight up for Hanson, the best pitching prospect in baseball. Gonzalez’s value is at it’s peak right now. Gonzalez is the only player that is clearly above average. I have one starting pitcher above average. Even after a 10-game winning streak, we’re 8.5 back. Maybe I could get more for Gonzo but if the Braves came to me with that offer, I’d probably do it.
DAP
May 27th, 2009
3:30 pm
from what ive read about hawpe, the rockies will be looking for mostly pitching. last i looked, the braves have some of that….
ncscoots
May 27th, 2009
3:30 pm
Cubs just brought up Jake Fox today, Rays brought up David Price Monday, Os bringing up Mat Wieters Friday. Can we follow suit and bring up Hanson Sunday.
Fox is a bat without a position, Price threw a hundred pitches in about six minutes, and Wieters will probably go oh-fer Friday. That kind of expectation for Hanson really make you go all warm and fuzzy?