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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,571 comments Add your comment
Capt Caveman
May 22nd, 2009
2:28 am
uniformity is something that exist on each level of ball from hs, college,minor, and major.
it exist on each level but not necessarily between the levels. You know hs is all the same and college is the same but they are diff from each other.
That is why you will see a position player jump up in the minors quickly but pitchers generally work each level for a year or so. If you notice, most of the pitching prodigy’s who make it to the big leagues before 21 are power pitchers, not too many finesse pitchers can make the leap in leagues so easy b/c they require more of the “feel” for the ball,
This is also one of the reasons why Greg Maddox is generally considered one of the best ever, he could get so much movement on his ball, especially the outside fastball the would cut back over the corner, That pitch defined him.
MIke Cather was a reliever for the Braves in 96 to 99 and i currently with the Red Sox as a pitching coach; We played together a few years back in the MSBL and when he would pitch is was unbelievable how much the ball would move. Sometimes I couldn’t even catch them b/c they would hit the mitt in a diff spot from where I was trying to catch it in. In the dugout between innings he would laugh at me b/c I was taking grief for dropping a few behind the plate. He told me if the big leagues used a ball like that he would have been a HOF pitcher. He could make the ball move like Maddox in our league. He was unhittable!! And he was out of the pros by then.
Tom O'Hawke
May 22nd, 2009
2:39 am
JD–
Not the first to argue with me when it’s a different “Tom”, they want to argue with. There are a lot of Tom-somethings on this blog. Sometimes, someone gets mixed up and starts arguing with “Tom O”, or “Tom O’Hawke” (spells it right out). I’m like, Huh?
N8
May 22nd, 2009
2:39 am
uga, oh don’t you start in on me too now! LOL!
I don’t dislike Vazquez. I’m just in such a hurry to see what Hanson can do that I wasn’t happy about the trade.
Everybody asks how I would react if he came up and got pounded. I’d be OK with it. Because he’s part of the future. A guy like Vazquez has a very short-term future with us. And since I never really thought that Wren did enough to make us competitive enough to get to October baseball, it seems like a wasted trade.
IMO, by the time we get to the playoffs again, Vazquez likely will not be around to see it.
With the offense we’ve got going (though I will admit that I expected the offence to be better than it has been), it would have been a wiser investement to go with a bat. Don’t have anybody specific in mind. Though Ibanez sure seemed like a nice fit in December, huh?
That all being said. Vazquez has shown me he’s cabable of giving us a chance to win on most nights. So my new whipping boy #1 (he was #2 before the last week or so), is Kawakami.
It’s too late to start kicking that dead horse tonight, so I’ll wait until his next start and go at it full force. But if Kawakami is still stinkin in 3-4 weeks and Hanson isn’t up to replace him, Wren needs to be relieved of his duties.
Unless he flat out comes out and says. We care more about the future and starting Hanson’s “clock”, thus will concede every game that Kenshin pitches the rest of the way.
If this team is serious about doing something this year. Hanson is going to be a big part of it. As will Hudson, and a big bat yet to be aquired. Short of those three happening, I think we should all enjoy some of the kids getting their feet wet and look towards next year.
Not saying that this division can’t be won. Especially with the Mets seemingly being bitten by the injury bug we had last year. But the Phillies look like they are ready to take off, and if they get another arm to stick in that rotation, look out. That might be it.
The Wild card? I’m on record right now, saying will have to win the East to get in the playoffs. The wild card winner will win at least 5 more games than we do this year. Just my gut.
I think with the right pieces to the puzzle in place, the Braves could win around 85-90 games this year. Which might be enough for the East title. But in reality, I see us winning between 78-83 games. Which isn’t going to be enough.
Lot of season left though. So many things could happen. But I said it last week. This team just doesn’t seem to have that big “streak” in them. I’m not talking about going on a 15 game winning streak. That’s tough for anybody and you need some luck. But the “old” Braves teams always seemed to have that one month, or a 30 or so game stretch where they went 25-5 or 23-7.
One nice stretch to seperate from the pack, or close the gap when we started off slow. I really don’t see that type of stretch in this group. So unfortunately, we are going to have to rely on the Mets and Phillies being just as streaky. And since they have money to burn (not sure about the prospects to give), they will more than likely make a bigger splash than us. And they should. Wren would be and idiot to give up any prized prospects for ANYBODY that would be available at the deadline.
Unless KC is willing to unload Greinke or SF wants to give up Lincecum. Perhaps the Cardinals would like Heyward for Pujols?
If Wren goes all “Lets get Tex” this summer, there needs to be a blanket party in his honor.
uga-brave
May 22nd, 2009
2:44 am
maddux, the best i ever saw. cutting it and throwing a nasty nasty change piece,
Tom O'Hawke
May 22nd, 2009
2:47 am
Capt Caveman–
I always knew, because of economics, that the aluminum bat was used, but not in the majors. That to me was a big adjustment, for a hitter, somewhere along the lines. But I never knew about the baseball. I just don’t understand it, either. I would think that the Major League Clubs would want the same ball used in the minors. It’s only logic. Thanks, again, for all your info.
jed
May 22nd, 2009
2:48 am
the blog’s reaction to medlen tonight was truly pathetic. some of it so bizarrely mean-spirited, it was embarrassing to read. it’s his first start and he’s young. at least, give him a chance to get the hang of it. no i have no idea what happened in the 4th inning. since there was no injury, and no blister, i’d guess maybe he just burned out after the first tidal wave of adrenalin wore off. he’ll improve fast. some of you people got a long way to go.
JD
May 22nd, 2009
2:50 am
When I said “they = he” I was informing you that I am a he. You said “they” earlier and I thought you meant that because you weren’t sure if I was a he or a she.
Sorry for all the pronouns…
uga-brave
May 22nd, 2009
2:51 am
n8,
brother that is why i love you. you state the facts. you at least put decent thoughts behind your posts.
jed
May 22nd, 2009
2:55 am
just read rosenthal’s analysis of the white sox-peavy non-trade. he says the padres’ best offer by far was the braves. then the cubs. by the time it got to the white sox, the padres were being offered substantially less. looks like kevin towers got what he deserved.
Tom O'Hawke
May 22nd, 2009
2:56 am
JD–
Got you, man. If it helps, I know you’re a “he”. No, I was just refering to all the late “Tom-confusion” lately.
N8
May 22nd, 2009
2:59 am
I’ve always thought that there should be some sort of obligation on behalf of MLB to attempt to provide wood bats to the colleges and HS.
You would think that it would help them evaluate the younger guys a bit better, and speed up the learning curve to get them adjusted quicker, by essentially eliminating the adjustment period.
But, that would be a LOT of bats to “donate”, and likely cost millions of dollars. But you can’t tell me that NCAA schools don’t have the funding to make it happen. Hell, use the concessions from one football game, that oughta cover it.
Mitchell
May 22nd, 2009
3:00 am
N8, that was long.
I can’t read that much blog at one time.
Somebody explain to me why Gregor Blanco isn’t playing center for Schafer? What is the deal, we want a utility man? Okay, so he doesn’t play the infield but tell me what Schafer has that Gregor doesn’t.
Okay, so maybe speed but the guy got some clutch hits for us last year. I don’t get it.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the Braves are punking us all. They’re going to wait until Chipper finally retires and in the meantime all these young players who suck like nobody’s business are going to toil away in obscurity and mediocrity, get slightly better but the team will still continue to lose, the attendance plummets to an all-time low (like, say, it’s doing now), eventually finish in last place if they haven’t already and then suddenly get a new manager and the next year make the World Series in 2014 and then lose the World Series in seven games when our second baseman attempts to trick the runner at first into thinking the ball was hit on the ground when in fact it’s hit in the gap in left center only to realize the runner saw the ball the whole way and scored without a throw.
I can’t wait.
I think it would be a pretty good idea in the meantime for this team to do whatever is humanly possible to win when Lowe, Jurrjens and Vasquez are pitching otherwise we aren’t winning &%$# this year.
JD
May 22nd, 2009
3:08 am
tell me what Schafer has that Gregor doesn’t Mitchell
Potential? A higher batting average in the majors than Gregor has in the minors? A straight rimmed hat?
JD
May 22nd, 2009
3:08 am
An Eminimen lookalike award?
Tom O'Hawke
May 22nd, 2009
3:13 am
Mitchell“N8, that was long.”
Nahhh, only 16 paragraphs. And it was directed at uga. I don’t think, uga, is in shape to read 16 paragraphs, right now. So I did, instead.
It wasn’t bad, for this time of night, especially. I disagreed with one thing, however. I’ve got to go back to it, and it’s on the other page. I’ll lose this, if I do. So, you’ll just have to wait.
N8
May 22nd, 2009
3:16 am
Well said Jed. I’ve got way more patience for a guy like Medlen, than for a guy like Kawakami that will cost us more in the next three years, than Hanson will in the next six.
I had the same patience with Davies and HoRam. But at some point (if you fancy yourself as a contender – which JS and now Wren always do, to a fault), you have to cut bait on a guy not getting it done.
Once they’ve proved everything that they can at AAA, there is no sense in sending them down. Sometimes the best thing to do for both the player and the team is to go in another direction.
That’s the difference between the past few years and the late 80’s. Back then nobody expected us to win. You could see a glimpse of what Avery, Smoltz and Glavine were capable of (just like with Davies and Horam), but there wasn’t any pressure to do great things. So they (and Bobby as the GM), were able to come along slowly.
When a kid is thrust into the rotation on a team with playoff aspirations, there is no room for growing on the job. One weak link in the rotation can doom a season.
Add to that, Davies and HoRam couldn’t shake injuries that kept them from finding any sort of groove out there. But anybody who remembers Glavine pitching many great games, only to be left out there too long and end up with a loss (partially to blame on the offense, defense and horrendous field conditions at FCS before Mangen -sp?- took over), could see he was on the cusp of greatness, and I’m sure Glavine and Smoltz would tell you that being ALLOWED to go through those growing pains, is what made them as mentally tough as they were.
But if Tom Glavine came up as a rookie today, and had the same results he had in many of those starts, the blog would ALL OVER HIM just like they are other rookies that struggle.
For example. In 1990, David Justice hit .216 with 6 HR and 18 in the months of June and July combined (.235 with 8 HR and 30 RBI in 65 total games at 1B – playing out of position). Following the trade of Murphy, allowing Justice to go to RF, is when he won his ROY trophy. Batting .332 with 19 HR and 47 RBI in 54 games after the trade while playing RF.
Had there been a blog in 1990, come mid-July, the posts demanding to ship his “can’t hit” ass down to Richmond, would have been endless.
Which is why with so many young guys coming, and already part of this team, it may very well be in KJ, Escobar, Francoeur, Schafer, and even McCann’s best interest to NOT aquire veterans, and let them play and grow without the expectations of gunning for the playoffs.
Then of course, is the question of what you do with Chipper. But I suppose that Murphy could give Chipper some advice on that, huh?
I’m not saying I’d bitch less if Wren would have not gone and got Lowe, Vazquez and Kawakami, and called this year a rebuilding year, waiting for Medlen, Hanson, Freeman, Gorkys and Heyward to arrive.
But I suspect those guys might perform better without the pressure of winning, and the very tall shadow of the glory years of yesterday looming so large in the rearview mirror.
N8
May 22nd, 2009
3:17 am
I hit post on that last one, only to see Mitchell say it was “long”. HAH! Topped it, I think. Sorry.
Capt Caveman
May 22nd, 2009
3:24 am
YO N8 — that is a good point, the biggest advocates for the aluminum bat is TV. It’s easier to sell ad time for a game where a team that is down by 8 can score 10 in one inning. Aluminum is the great equalizer when it comes to pitcher/batter. Guys that would get sawed off with a wood bat can bloop one over the infield with aluminum. The only guy I know who ever made the jump straight to the pro’s from college as a power hitter was Bob Horner . Correct me if you know of anyone else.
The one draw back to the wood is the possibility of injury from broken bats.That is one thing the NCAA never wants to face. The 3 piece bat is something that they use but it is basically a synthetic bat even if it is made of natural materials.
I can tell you that we use aluminum in the MSBL and as a catcher I hate’em but every now and then when I get to launch a 400 foot monster shot I temporarily change my mind until the other team comes up to bat again. LOL
Tom O'Hawke
May 22nd, 2009
3:25 am
N8 “I hit post on that last one, only to see Mitchell say it was “long”. HAH! Topped it, I think. Sorry.”
Don’t worry about it, it was hardly noticable.
When I went back to your “War and Peace Vol I”, the only thing I disagreed with was the Hanson ARB. clock. I think the Braves have proved that they aren’t worrying about that. I used to think that way, also. Case in point, Jordan Schafer and Kris Medlen. Both times the Braves could have taken the cheap way out, but didn’t. I don’t think that Hanson will be either.
jed
May 22nd, 2009
3:39 am
well, n8, i dont see the braves as being in full-scale rebuilding mode either, but whereas you disagree with that approach, i actually have supported wren’s perspective, which to me seems like allowing a young team to grow while still trying to win. ergo, the garret signing and the signing of a rotation. the core of the future will still be playing everyday: mccann, escobar, kj, francouer and schafer. problem is that kj & francouer have not lived up to their promise, and if that continues, well, at least you’ve learned something. (i think kj eventually will be a consistently strong bat, but he hasnt shown that yet, and he might be in a different uniform before that ever happens.)
so far, kawakami has disappointed, but he’s learning too, and could well improve, so maybe it’s a bit early to judge that move just yet. nor do you know what smoltz will have left when he comes back.
main point is that perhaps you and i just approach watching baseball from different vantage points. in my view, part of the draw is entertainment, and if you can have a legitimate shot at winning (which you conceded earlier the braves may have), and if you can do this while still building the core of your team, i say do it. give the fans something to pull for. now if you cant, of course just rebuild the team. i do think this team can win 85 games, especially with the starters we signed. and i also think you’ll see hansen up in atlanta for good sometime this year. (glavine is, in retrospect, perhaps the most dubious signing.)
if we contend depends on the offense, and that might be where it turns out that this team hits the wall. but that will be because KJ and francouer just plain didnt pan out. and those guys are, for better or worse, part of the core future of the team you’d be rebuilding with anyway, so i’m not sure that helps your argument much.
nolie
May 22nd, 2009
4:39 am
I used to think that way, also. Case in point, Jordan Schafer and Kris Medlen. Both times the Braves could have taken the cheap way out, but didn’t. I don’t think that Hanson will be either. (TOM O)
Medlen is probably no trouble there, he isn’t likely to stay up after Glav gets ready. After 20 days back down in the minors the clock will stop again. I don’t think there is any way he could get enough time in this season for it to count. Hanson either really. Of course Schafer will if he stays up which I think is likely.
Random
May 22nd, 2009
4:43 am
oldschool (12:16 am)–
Sheesh.
You’d best go home, ma’am, if such a mild dissent as this evokes such a hysterical reaction from you.
You’re clearly not meant for this world.
Random
May 22nd, 2009
4:47 am
doG, I’m and idiot! Wrong link — correction below:
oldschool (12:16 am)–
Sheesh!
You’d best go home now, ma’am, if such a mild dissent as this evokes such a hysterical reaction from you.
Random
May 22nd, 2009
4:55 am
oldschool (12:28 am): “you still haven’t gotten it yet. All I was saying is that I appreciate what jj has done since he got herehe was traded to a new team, and moved up to the front of the rotation as the injury bug hit and has come out this year after all of that and throwing more innings than before and he has givin us nothing but quality start after quality start. Look at Hamels and the start he got off to after pitching all those innings last year and being the M.V.P. Do you understand?”
Well, you’ve left me stranded on the blasted sands of your shifting semantics.
That’s not at all what you said last night at 11:22 pm:
“With medlens rocky start that was definately his nerves,makes me appreciate what we’ve gotten out of jj and from the start he has pitched awesome.”
So, no – I do not understand. Let’s just drop it, okay?
Turtsnap
May 22nd, 2009
6:46 am
I knew our offensive numbers were terrible, but last night, it was put into perspective. Our leading home run hitters are Escobar and Chipper with 4!!!! That is flat out embarrassing. Two months into the season!!!
Why don’t I feel confident about tonights game? Kawakami vs. Halladay?? Looks like an L again tonight.
Bill M.
May 22nd, 2009
7:20 am
Medlen will be o.k. I think he will be better in Pen. Just nerves. The Braves are just an average team. They are in trouble. It’s ashame to waste this pitching staff and no one to hit. I like C. Jones, but get use to this. He’s going to break down. Braves should have signed him for no more than two years. Francouer is a lost cause. Think the Braves would be better off if he was traded but who would have him. To get a power bat, the Braves have only one player that could be traded and that’s Escobar. Don’t know if they could afford to let him go. The Braves can’t compete with the players on this team.
Couch Tater
May 22nd, 2009
7:37 am
I just don’t understand it either. I would think that the Major League Clubs would want the same ball used in the minors. It’s only logic.
O’Hawke – I was thinking the same thing when that was broadcast, last night.
Jeff R
May 22nd, 2009
8:28 am
Say it ain’t so…. Chipper sidelined, day-to-day. An ache in his big toe. A 3-year, multimillion dollar contract. Good to know that Chipper will have plenty of opportunities to miss plenty of games through ‘11.
Medlen is talented. Just his first start. Yes, he was rocked, but its no indicator.
Wren and his brain-trust need to huddle. Parr and Carlye are absolute scrubs. Bennett isn’t far from that designation, either. Moylan is inconsistent. The Braves need to buck up their middle inning relief and set up. Also, who’s really happy with Kawakami in the # 4 slot in the rotation?
CB
May 22nd, 2009
8:38 am
I think McCann said it best- it is very nerveracking to be in your 1st major league game. Also he had the couple extra days between starts to think about it. I hope the Braves do not hit the panic button with the young man- there is obvious potential either starting or bullpen. It has been said he is very hyperactive so I could imagine his feelings with parents and girlfriend in attendance.
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
8:39 am
One blogger said this team has playoff aspirations. Well it’s not a playoff team right now. Braves are what they are, a 500 team. I would be pleasantly surprised if they win 83 games this year. I knew they would come up with a dud against Aaron Cook, who was getting his customary ground ball outs.
Now we face Roy Halladay tonight. We’ll be lucky to get one run tonight.
proeye
May 22nd, 2009
8:40 am
Here is what I think…
I like the line up putting Kotchman second. I suggested this before, and I’m assuming Braves management read my comments (not on this blog).
However, here is what I would like to see… KJ did fine batting 8th in the past. He has an ability to draw walks and to take walks when they are presents which is what happens when you bat in front of the pitcher. I think Schafer’s biggest problem right now, other than adjusting to major league pitching and his mental approach, is the fact that he is getting pitched around. Why would any pitcher give him anything knowing he is batting around .220 with a TON of strikeouts? So bat him in FRONT of KJ and I bet not only does his BA go up but also his confidence which I’m sure is being tested right now.
The ultimate suggestion is to TRADE Johnson and Francoeur and we’ll see what happens in the next couple of weeks. I’m guessing that there will be a trade given that Medlen was brought up ahead of Hanson as a showcase and our outfield is virtually no different than last year. I don’t think management is willing to continue the embarassment much longer. Besides, I believe with one or two trades to improve the offense, this team will start winning and they have a legit shot at the division with the Mets injuries and the Phillies pitching woes. If we were 20 games out already we probably wouldn’t see a trade, but why not now when we are still hanging in there and we have a HUGE deficit in the outfield? Think about it: Putting anyone out there is bound to improve things given that RF, CF, and LF all rank towards the bottom in the majors in production.
Bring up Brandon Jones and PLEASE, let’s have a trade!
Jeff321
May 22nd, 2009
8:41 am
After running out the grounder, Jones limped back toward the dugout and then limped onto the field to play defense during the seventh inning. But he exited the blowout when the discomfort didn’t subside one inning later.
Limper Jones strikes again. No sense in letting him take up a spot if this is going to be a prolonged period of gimpyness, eh?
If he can’t play by tomorrow.. Send him to the DL!
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
8:49 am
I say they KEEP Medlen in the majors and NOT send him back down, but work him out of the bullpen for the remainder of the season, as they did in Spring Training.
Call up Hanson and keep him here in the starting rotation. Let him take his lumps and work through them now, so next year he’ll be better.
CB
May 22nd, 2009
8:50 am
Do they have a DL for bloggers:[1] MFin [2] Robert [3] Joebrave [4] Jeff321. Wouldn’t it be nice?
Mikey
May 22nd, 2009
8:52 am
Nice to see a couple of hits from Francoeur but Joe mentioned that his hands and bat speed through the strike zone looked slow. I have watched the past two games and it does appear slow. I am not so sure he is going to right as much as his hands are late. Is it just me but he also appears slower defensively as well.
cvbraves
May 22nd, 2009
8:53 am
What a pleasant surprise. Expected to see a lot of Medlen and Braves’ bashing from the late night, early morning postings…and really not so bad. Medlen and the Braves will bounce back…all will be well!
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
8:57 am
proeye
I’m sure they read these blogs, players and management, that’s not to say that they take our suggestions at all, but I firmly believe that they do read them.
I want Braves to make a trade for a power hitting RH outfielder (as everyone else does on this blog) but I don’t see it happening. If they are not going for it this year, then let Medlen and Hanson come up and take their lumps (much like Smoltz, Avery, and Glavine did in the late 80s/1990) so they can get better and be more than ready to step in next year and make an impact. We didn’t win 14 straight division titles by patching together a team with a bunch of Free agents. We built them with young pitching, and a Free Agent signing of one or two players (Pendleton, Maddux) to make the young pitchers better.
We’ve got the “Maddux” (Derek Lowe, and I’m not comparing him to Maddux, but would be the veteran that would make the staff better once the young pitchers join the rotation), now we need to get the “Pendleton”, and we’ll be just a .500 team without those types of impact players.
Jeff321
May 22nd, 2009
8:57 am
CB – I’m already on the DL. My sciatic nerve is acting up.
"CY" Jones
May 22nd, 2009
8:57 am
I heard Chipper’s injury was that he had a CY on his foot.
Last time he was to face a “CY” Young winner was Santana in NY. He was banged up the last game of the series before and missed him. He made it back the next night, however. Tonight he is scheduled to face “CY” Young winner Roy Hallady, but he was banged up last night and will probably miss him. He’ll probably be back tomorrow. I wonder if Chipper’s “CY” will act up when they face the Giants and Tim Lincecum?
Mikey
May 22nd, 2009
8:59 am
Sorry to see Medlen have a less thna stellar opening. Have seen him pitch in Gwinnett. Has to be nerves he is much better than what he showed tonite.
DOB this may not be the place but I like simple pleasures and since 1989 I have alway enjoyed the weekend sitting outside a.m. with some java and the AJC. It was detailed and appeared the dead-line was one hour before I got up. The new AJC format is horrible. The Town Creek Gazzette is more detailed. Sorry to say I have cancelled my subscription. Let not your heart be troubled I have my laptop and will but a power outlet next to the swing. Really enjoy the blog.
DAP
May 22nd, 2009
9:03 am
not sure if anyone cares, but i got to watch smoltz pitch 3 innings here in augusta last night. it was cool to be able to see him so close.
when he came out in the first and left after the third, alot of folks stood and applauded. i was torn inside…couldnt figure out what to do, so i just sat and applauded…
anyways, he looked pretty good. blew a couple of single A hitters away, had a few comebackers, gave up one hit and a couple more hard-hit outs. there was no radar gun but he looked like he was throwing pretty hard to me.
id much rather be waiting for smoltz to come back than glavine, but…oh well. braves just couldnt afford it.
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
9:10 am
DAP
If we re-signed SMoltz instead of Derek Lowe, then Braves would be closer to the Nationals in the standings than the Phillies.
J williams
May 22nd, 2009
9:12 am
I hope that the Braves are looking for a big outfield bat, becuase this is painful.
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
9:13 am
Glavine’s major league debut was similar to Medlen’s.
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
9:16 am
I hope they don’t deal Medlen for a RH hitting power hitting outfielder whom they are only going to keep until the end of the season
DAP
May 22nd, 2009
9:19 am
getnathanIf we re-signed SMoltz instead of Derek Lowe, then Braves would be closer to the Nationals in the standings than the Phillies.
you know that i said glavine, not lowe, right?
Mac
May 22nd, 2009
9:20 am
I wonder if Medlen didn’t suffer one of those mental breakdowns where he’ll never again be able to throw strikes.
moose knuckle
May 22nd, 2009
9:22 am
Getnathan once again you amaze me. Lowe is maddux? I think there a difference of like 200 wins. And we need a pendelton? If he was that good then he should be good enough to fix the hitters.
BG
May 22nd, 2009
9:23 am
I didn’t catch the game last night and just read Dave’s article about Medlen. The headline reads, “Braves’ rookie suffers forgettable debut against Rockies”. The articles makes it sound like there’s no hope for Medlen so I went to ESPN to see just how this disastrous outing unfolded.
It wasn’t nearly as bad as the article makes it out to be: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playbyplay?gameId=290521115&full=1&inning=0 . Medlen got the first two guys out and had two strikes on Helton before losing him in the first. He allowed 1 run in the first, no runs or hits in the second and no runs or hits in the third. He even struck out Helton, which was not mentioned.
The fourth inning is where he lost some velocity and control. The article uses the word “pounded”, however he only allowed one hit. “Pounded” makes it sound like the Rockies were hitting ropes and homers all night long.
Then there was this condescending phrase, “Then there was Medlen”?? As a coach, I’ve always approached post-game meetings after a loss trying to identify some positives. I guess if I were the writer privileged to have the Braves Beat, I would have included mentioning something/anything positive, such as the first good three innings. I at least would have tried to write a more accurate story and let the people know Medlen pitched three strong innings before losing it in the fourth.
Couch Tater
May 22nd, 2009
9:28 am
Well random stop acting like your the queen of the blog…
RandomHer Majesty Random – Should I address you as Yer Heinous?Gil In Mechanicsville
May 22nd, 2009
9:31 am
Sudden loss of control and velocity but no pain… shades of Mark Wholers…..
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
9:35 am
moose –
R.I.F.
next-
flange1
May 22nd, 2009
9:37 am
Morning All,
Enjoyed the first 3 innings of young KM last night. As DOB said, we could all see that he was nervous. Too bad he had trouble in the 4th. That’s ok kid, get ‘em next time!
Was that jump by Frenchy on the GS a bit mis-timed or what? I think that ball should have been caught.
I for one am not a big fan of Frenchy in the field any more. Besides the power arm, he looks worse that GA, slow and not interested.
I agree with Efrim from last night PEAVY= DRAMA QUEEN.
Getting tired of hearing about the prima donna.
Speaking of prima donnas, did something happen in Augusta last night? It’s too late in the year for the Masters! They close the National next week!
moose knuckle
May 22nd, 2009
9:39 am
Whatever. Next-thats mature
csg
May 22nd, 2009
9:40 am
Somebody explain to me why Gregor Blanco isn’t playing center for Schafer? What is the deal, we want a utility man? Okay, so he doesn’t play the infield but tell me what Schafer has that Gregor doesn’t.
okay Ill start, Schafer plays good solid defense and he’s got an above average arm. Blanco has decent range but nothing compared to Jordan and he’s got a weak non accurate arm. Blanco has a line of .213/.318/.273 at AAA which would be worse than any of our current 4 OF’s. With Blanco not being able to get on base and not being able to use his speed once he’s on base, he brings nothing to the table. Im fine with having Schafer go back to AAA for a little while, but only if we put an upgrade out there in which Blanco is not
PWHjort
May 22nd, 2009
9:46 am
N8,
I made that point about Glavine and Smoltz as rookies a few days ago. And Glavine made the same point in a radio interview. When they came up, the team was so damn bad the only objective the organization had for them was to get better and comfortable in the big leagues. It’s a shame our rookies don’t have that same luxury today, they’re expected to step in and immediately contribute. But I guess that’s a good problem to have. It means you’ve got something to play for.
braves57
May 22nd, 2009
9:47 am
When the Braves were playing the Mets, Chipper missed the series opener with ” Santana ” elbow. I just now read that he may miss the series opener with Toronto because of ” Halladay ” toe. We wouldn’t want to have his batting average drop. Doesn’t anyone else see a pattern here? Of course, this is nothing new for him. He has been doing this for years. What a team leader.
Knowitall
May 22nd, 2009
9:47 am
Ok, that’s like 6 straight games that I have been to that the Braves have lost. My next scheduled visit is on July 2. If the Braves lose that game, I’m banning myself from the staduim.
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
9:48 am
I think teams will be reluctant to go after Peavy now after his latest rejection
bravofan
May 22nd, 2009
9:48 am
I personally was at Turner Field last night and Medlen did not look Great nor did he look terrible either however as a fan one thing I noticed was that he had a high pitch count very early on. It was also very evident that he was greatly upset with himself. I personally think he needs to focus on those two things because he gets frustrated easily that will cause him to make bad pitches in the dirt like he did last night. Also, the home plate ump number 61 after Yunel batted his second or third time up picked up Yunels bat and YELLED towards the Braves dugout he absolutely did not handle himself in a professional manner I think if you were at the game you could see his facial expressions from wherever you were sitting. The Braves just could not manage to get things clicking offensively they were only able to produce a mere 4 hits the whole game thats pitiful guys. O and I understand Medlen is a young kid but why did Bobby leave him in as long as he did after all the passed balls he threw?? And it seemed to me like you could have given somebody else a shot to pitch in the game besides Parr! Also, I guess Bobby decided to give Yuni a rest after the Ump gave him a tongue lashing about slinging his bat that is the only thing that the Ump could have possibly been upset with. But in Yunel’s place came Diory Hernandez he looked good defensively but couldn’t get a hit. So that was my take on last nights game, I hope we can get things together tonight and bounce back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was very dissapointed in a parking attendant at Turner Field there were 2 lanes of cars waiting to park and this lady decided to have a full blown conversation with the people in the car in front of us for about 2 or 3 minutes that is ABSOLUTELY ruded and DISREPECTUFL show some manners and class I mean for crying out loud we wanted to get in the Stadium! Also, ATTENTION: Braves marketing-You may want to think this through I know the Retro hats are not cheap but only 10,000 that is not very fair, I mean lets face it the Braves aren’t doing so well at the present time the least you could do would be to give something to everybody that they can go home with!!!!!!!!! GO BRAVOS!!
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
9:50 am
DAP – id much rather be waiting for smoltz to come back than glavine, but…oh well. braves just couldnt afford it
I based my comment on you saying you were waiting for Smoltz to come back and I said the Braves would probably be near the bottom of the division if he had waited for Smoltz instead of signing Derek Lowe.
Threadkiller
May 22nd, 2009
9:51 am
halladay vs. the donger
what is the moneyline on that?
I love this!! This is classic!!
“The Donger needs food”!
Random
May 22nd, 2009
9:56 am
Couch Tater –
“Yer Heinous” is perfectly acceptable — I’ll also respond to “Yer Heinie”.
JD
May 22nd, 2009
9:56 am
If we couldn’t hit Aaron Cook last night, I can only imagine what Halladay will do. They’ll probably give us 2 losses.
jake ryan
May 22nd, 2009
9:56 am
She go get married? Married?
Yeah, married.
PWHjort
May 22nd, 2009
9:57 am
If anyone expects a rookie to step in and immediately dominate, they don’t know much about baseball. I don’t care how much seasoning at AAA or how well they pitched there, there’s going to be an adjustment period. Like I’ve been saying all along, patience is key with young players, especially pitchers. And the organization knows this. And when Hanson comes up, he’s not going to cone out of the gates firing CG shutouts. Relax. They’re rookies.
PMC
May 22nd, 2009
9:58 am
Medlin will be fine. Control being off in his first start is understandable but he showed flashes of what he could do. He just kind of Rick Vaughned it in the 4th. Todd Helton is a fantastic professional hitter, he’s gotten the better of many seasoned pitchers.
DAP
May 22nd, 2009
9:58 am
getnathan
oh. well if money was no object the braves would be the same place they are in now, except looking forward to smoltz returning instead of glavine. thats what i was saying. not sure how you decided lowe had anything to do with my post.
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
9:58 am
bravofan —
If we knew about Aaron Cook and the way he pitches, then we knew Braves would be in for a tough evening.
PMC
May 22nd, 2009
9:59 am
Aaron Cook is awesome, I don’t expect we’ve got much for Roy Halladay either. Thems the breaks.
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
10:00 am
DAP –
My thinking was if Braves re-signed John Smoltz, then they would not have signed Derek Lowe.
pryguy
May 22nd, 2009
10:00 am
N8….I really appreciate your thoughts. Very well said on many fronts, and I agree the young guys are brought in expecting to win, which may be a good thing in terms of their mindset rather develop in a losing atmosphere. It’s mostly your opinion, but I do like the Braves approach ever since the early 90s of competing year in and year out while developing the young talent. Problem is, we haven’t experienced this much over the past 15-20 years until most recently with the team producing losing records. Unfamiliar territory for the fans, but let’s not forget the coaches and organization as well. I like to think the Braves are well aware of the situation at hand and something is brewing in terms of 2010 and beyond of bringing them back to their rightful spot atop the NL EAST.
bravofan
May 22nd, 2009
10:01 am
gentnathan: I know that but it seemed like to me Bobby threw the towel in early
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
10:02 am
KNowing the way the Braves have been the past couple of years, then I knew even after a 12 run outburst one night, they would lay an egg the very next night against a sinkerball pitcher who had been pitching okay in his last five starts. When I saw (online I don’t live in Atlanta) that he was getting groundball outs, then I knew it would be tough for the Braves to score runs.
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
10:05 am
Now we get Roy Halladay. Yaaaayyy!!
This is reminding me of 2005 (I think, not sure of the year). Ben Sheets held the Braves to one run and struck out 10+, and the very next game, Randy Johnson pitches a perfect game against us, so that had to have been the rockbottom point of that season because the Braves went on to win the division.
So is Roy Halladay going to pitch a perfect game against us tonight?
Lew
May 22nd, 2009
10:05 am
BG-I did watch the game and though Medlen showed promise (?) the first couple innings, the kid completely lost it in the 4th. No way around it. Dude pulled a Mark Wohlers and was totally unable to throw strikes-several of the pitches were so wild that McCann had no chance to even reach them had he stretched completely out and had a hockey stick to reach the ball..
Now I’m not going to claim (like some others here) that Medlen needs to be shipped back to Gwinnett or that he’ll be another Horacio Ramirez or JoJo Reyes, but to claim his first start was in any way impressive is total bull. Even in the first, Helton totally played the kid. Yes, he did strike Helton out later, but that first AB he rattled the kid into balking and losing his composure. No way to sugar coat the facts. It was a forgettable first start. No way around it. But he’ll do better.
PWHjort
May 22nd, 2009
10:07 am
Braves57,
You’re right. Chipper only cares about his batting average. He’s clearly faking these injuries. Doesn’t care about the team and manager that have employed him for 18 years. Doesn’t want to win. Just cares about his batting average.
Do you listen to yourself when you talk? Chipper couldn’t give less of a sh!t about his average. He’s made his money. The only thing left for him is winning another WS and having fun playing. If you think for 1 second he doesn’t want to be in the line-up tonight or didn’t want to be in it against Santana, you are extremely delusional. Chipper being injured is not a new thing. And you’re just a loser looking for something to vent about because you’re frustrated with the team. I understand your frustration, but this ain’t Chipper’s fault. No way. No how.
David O'Brien
May 22nd, 2009
10:08 am
Random, fine post at midnight. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
10:09 am
bravofan –
It does seem that he will throw in the towel around the 6th inning. Maybe he just has a good feel of how a game is going to end up. I have total confidence in Bobby Cox, he can only work with what he’s got.
bravofan
May 22nd, 2009
10:12 am
gentnathan: DUDE I was at the game it seemed to me like it was thrown in before the 6th I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
DOB: what was your take on the game last night?
RHR
May 22nd, 2009
10:12 am
BG @ 9:23 – The kid looked good thru the 1st two outs and then struggled to get the 3rd out of the inning but it wasn’t that ugly, especially not for a KID making his major league debut. I guess by pounded the article meant the slammer that came out of the loaded bases he left for Parr. It should be noted that Helton’s slam over the RF wall was catchable, Jeff just kinda jumped up and closed his eyes and the ball bounced off his glove and over the wall. Most outfielders who’ve been playing in the same position in the same park for 3 seasons would’ve had that. But that’s neither here nor there, Medlen did issue the walks that led to the bases being loaded in the first place.
Threadkiller
May 22nd, 2009
10:13 am
“What’s happenin’ hot stuff?”
Long Duk Dong
McFann :Ô:
May 22nd, 2009
10:14 am
Tom O’Hawke–
Maybe I don’t have to thank you, but I will, anyway.
I’m older than 16…actually, bravos2249 and I are probably just about the same age.
BossLady–
Beltran?? Eh…even if I was on the same page with you there, I could never admit it. Can’t stand the guy…
Also, I don’t think that McCann’s fans are in it for his looks he just reminds them of the guy next door or someone they think they could know.
Actually, Jerome Jerinavich (however you spell that) is the guy that looks like our neighbor…McCann looks like this guy who used to take piano lessons after us when we took our lessons at a “studio”. Hey, Mac’s not bad looking…provided he keeps his shirt on, of course.
(Not that I saw the interview, but…)
DAP
May 22nd, 2009
10:15 am
Enter your comments here
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
10:15 am
bravofan –
Since you were at the game, did he throw in the towel in the bottom of the 4th?
RHR
May 22nd, 2009
10:16 am
And some of your reactions to Chipper maybe having to miss a game are even more predictable than Chipper’s injuries.
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
10:16 am
I think Medlen should stay with the big club, but pitch out of the pen for the remainder of the season
BG
May 22nd, 2009
10:16 am
Is there anywhere I can go online to see video of how Medlen pitched in the fourth?
DAP
May 22nd, 2009
10:17 am
gee whiz, cant believe i did that. anyways….the braves have a chance tonight. they can score against halliday, they just have to do him like they did santana. tuff ABs, grind it out, and scratch some runs out of him. itll be up to kawakami to hold that jays lineup in check…(wont be easy)
David O'Brien
May 22nd, 2009
10:18 am
BG, regarding your 9:23 a.m. post: I wrote my game story knowing that Carroll was doing a sidebar story on Medlen’s night. Thus, I didn’t get into all the details of his performance in my game story, since I knew she would go further into the inning-by-inning and such in her story. And also, the postgame news that Chipper might be out a game or more led me to move that info to top of story, thus removing about 4-5 inches of space that could otherwise have been used for Medlen, etc.
To me, the important part of Medlen’s outing was the fourth inning and what could possibly have caused such a sudden and utter lack of control (eight consecutive balls, then hitting the pitcher with the bases loaded) from a talented young pitcher whose game is all about command of three good pitches. That’s what got him here. He’s very good, so to see that, and to not have a blister or arm injury as the reason, well, that’s what has to be stressed in this particular limited space in a game story about his debut and a 9-0 loss.
Sorry, but that’s the key part of his performance, especially looking forward. What caused it?That was unusual, even for a debut. And Cox said as much, which should tell you how rare it was, for the manager to say things like, he had no idea what happened to Medlen in the fourth inning or, they had to get to the bottom of this, etc.
So I disagree with your point. Sorry, but if I had to write the game story again, given what else I had to fit into limited space and knowing Carroll was doing a sidebar on him, I’d have again focused on the fourth inning, the sudden and serious control issues, the balls going to the screen. That was the turning point of the entire game, loading the bases on two walks and hitting the pitcher with a pitch, then leaving that bases-loaded, no-out situation for Parr with none out in the inning.
Lew
May 22nd, 2009
10:20 am
BG-You may not really want to see it. He walked the bases loaded with several wild pitches and then hit the pitcher to drive in a run before he was removed.
GeorgiaVol
May 22nd, 2009
10:20 am
DOB,
I don’t get it. We have stunk it up for three years and no one wants to hold Bobby or TP responsible in any way. Everybody in the clubhouse “loves” to play for Bobbby. Well, maybe he makes it too easy. As far as TP goes, it’s clear to me that he is Bobby’s replacement, because it sure can’t be he prowess as a hitting coach.
getnathan
May 22nd, 2009
10:21 am
As tough as it will be for us to get runs against Halladay, I DO think that Kawakami will step up and pitch well enough to keep us in the game.
John
May 22nd, 2009
10:21 am
What’s not to be happy about?– No leadoff hitter– no outfield power–no bullpen- only three starters when a full rotation is five– dull play- lackluster play-dispirited play- obtuse management- bad owner- and often, bad weather. Enjoy!!
RHR
May 22nd, 2009
10:22 am
I don’t know about a video, the rockies may have one on their site
but it was very wild and all of a sudden, DOB is not stretching that in the least.
jake ryan
May 22nd, 2009
10:24 am
Dong. Grampa is talking to you.
Where is my automobile?
Automobile?
Grrrr blkakakslash.
Lake. Big lake.
PWHjort
May 22nd, 2009
10:25 am
Eddie Perez is the better candidate to replace Bobby in my opinion.
RANDOM STUPIDITY
May 22nd, 2009
10:25 am
Chipper will not hit the D.L. He will not lead the Braves in batting average or walks.
Tommy Hanson will stay in AAA all season due to Kris Medlen pitching lights out the rest of the year.
The Braves will win the Division, running way with it after getting A-rod in a trade with the Yankees for Casey Kotchman and a bunch of minor leaguers nobody has ever heard of before.
Jeff Francoeur won’t play the whole season in RF, he ends up in LF after switching with Garret Anderson. He will finally turn to Terry Pendleton for advice, and hits .350 with 30 HR’s and 110 RBI.
Javier Vazquez won’t be traded for the big bat the Braves don’t need after the A-rod trade.
Garret Anderson will lead the Braves in HR’s and RBI and get his contract renewed for 2010. He wins the gold glove in RF after showing off his rifle arm.
Jordan Schafer will lead the Bravos in walks while not striking even once after the All-star break.
The Braves will tell Tim Hudson to take a hike, not pick up his option and wish him good riddance. Tommy Turncoat will ride in like the Lone Ranger and save our Braves entire season while Bobby Cox announces his impending retirement on September 1st.
Kenshin Kawakami will finally ask his interpreter to catch relegating Brian McCann to the bench with pom poms in hand.
Derel Lowe will announce his intentions to compete in the iron man in October, quit the team and start training immediately.
Jair Jurrjens ends up winning the Cy Young award afterword and Frank Wren ends up in a psyc ward screaming : Derek Lowe is our Ace! Derek Lowe is our ace! Derk Lowe is our ace!
Terry Pendleton will do cartwheels on the field after he becomes Bobby’s replacement as manager starting in 2010. After Bobby announces his intentions to retire, the Braves go undefeated all the way through game seven of the World Series, winning it all and sending Cox out as a two time WS manager.
"The balls are bigger and slicker here," -Kawakami
May 22nd, 2009
10:28 am
DOB, that is because you are an unbiased and well-trained journalist. Maybe next time you write a game story, you could focus on BG’s feelings instead of the facts and events of the game.
Random
May 22nd, 2009
10:28 am
CB (8:50 am): “Wouldn’t it be nice?”
60-day, right?