12:09 pm March 4, 2009, by Carroll Rogers
March 4th, 20096:27 pm
That should work.
March 4th, 20096:32 pm
Baseball America’s Braves page is also helpful during the season. Makes it easy to keep up with what the guys in the bigs and the kids on the farm are doing.
March 4th, 20096:34 pm
PWHJort, whatever you want to go with. Don’t know why that data seems so off. I’ll stick with the new and improved +/- from Dewan (http://sabernomics.com/sabernomics/FieldingBibleVII_Excerpt.pdf) and UZR, the two best fielding metrics out there, which seem to correlate pretty well with each other.
March 4th, 20096:39 pm
Suppose Hanson outperforms Glavine this spring. Can anyone imagine putting Glavine in the pen and using Hanson as the 5th starter?
for the 37th time already, NO! very unlikely to happen. They do not see Glav as a reliever and his history of early inning troubles would bode ill for such a move;nor is he particularly effective against lefties.
March 4th, 20096:40 pm
chop chop – thanks I like the Batting Runs created stat,
looks like one of the better all round sites
March 4th, 20096:51 pm
NotForMe, not only that, but Cox will never replace Glavine with anybody, not even Hanson. Anyone that’s watched this man for the 20 years knows that. Glavine is like his son. I can bet even if Glavine is 1-7 with an ERA of 6.00 in a couple of months, he will be pitching in the 5 hole for the rest of ‘09.
You know, some of you people piss me off with your know-it-all attitudes. If it weren’t for the internet and DOB, some of you wouldn’t know half the crap you do about the Braves or baseball…period! That goes for me too, but I at least don’t criticise people’s comments by correcting them and trying to make that person feel stupid. It’s a fu– game and some of you try to complicate it because you have nothing else to do your lives.
March 4th, 20096:54 pm
Probably longer than would please most of ya’ll. ThrillHouse44
Well said dude. As someone posted earlier, Joe Torre = Bobby Cox to all purposes. Both are player’s managers and Torre got ripped in NY for staying with guys so long just like Cox does here.
March 4th, 20097:01 pm
I don’t see the Braves pi**in the season away waiting to see if JF will finally get it through his head – and, correspondingly, train his instincts – to change his approach at the plate. He keeps saying that he is but as soon as the ball is thrown everything is forgotten and he’s lunging at the ball once again. I’ve said it again and again, the only way this guy is gonna change is for him to do something mechanically – like choking up on the damn bat. When you do you’re swing is shortened – his biggest problem – and his head can only follow.
Frankly, I don’t see him doing it. He’ll be gone or riding the bench by June and the kid Heyward patrolling right field. Hey, I’ve got an idea, with that arm maybe Francoeur can try to pitch – he’s certainly got the bat for it.
March 4th, 20097:12 pm
Clap clap, clap clap clap!!!!
Clap clap, clap clap clap!!!
Keep doing it kid, we are all behind you……….just keep walking, the exit is at the end of the tunnel.
March 4th, 20097:25 pm
History tells that Glavine is a slow starter, meaning he has trouble in the 1st 2 inning. Thats a fact. Could you mention a single fact that tells that he might not be a good reliever? Please give me fact, not extrapolations.
March 4th, 20097:28 pm
Yahoo! Fantasy Sports gave Yunel 1 star out of 5 and have him listed in the fifth tier of shortstops.
Call me a homer, but I think that guy’s a tool
The Bill James values are enhanced. John Dewan practically works for Bill James so the latest and greatest statistics are always available on James’ site, which I highly recommend subscribing to.
March 4th, 20097:31 pm
Here’s a question. What % chance do yall give Jeff Bennett of making the opening day roster? Carrol? Everyone? I’ll say 70%.
March 4th, 20097:33 pm
Smokey Joe Wood (3:57 pm): “We all think it’s great that we signed Glavine, because you can’t have too much starting pitching. Someone will get hurt, we say, and then we can bring up Hanson. Well, what if someone doesn’t get hurt? What if Hanson dominates AAA like he did the AFL, but we leave him there all year cuz there’s no room in the inn? Will that change your opinion of the Glavine signing?”
The implied premises of your scenario/hypothetical are contradictory.
IFnone of the 5 SPs get hurt (not even Glavine), and IF all 5 SPs are pitching effectively (including Glavine), then heck yes I’m fine with Hanson remaining in Gwinnett until Sep, regardless of how light’s out he might be pitching. Save him ’til you need him — it ain’t gonna bruise his ego or stunt his development.
OTOH, if one of the SPs gets hurt or does not produce, bring him on!
Seems simple to me. Perhaps I’m just simple-minded?
March 4th, 20097:39 pm
Ill give him 99% chance.
March 4th, 20097:52 pm
Poor Ohman, after having a 2 or 3 year deal with money close to what Jeremy Affeldt will earn.
If you are saying that the Braves offered him anything close to 8mil for 2 years you are seriously mistaken
March 4th, 20097:58 pm
I can personally guarantee Jeff Bennett will be on the roster (barring injury) and used frequently. (Whether he’s effective or not.)
The main stud we need (besides Moylan if he’s ready) for the 7th or 8th inning is Phil Stockman. However, I doubt Cox will have him on the team or actually use him in close situations.
Ted Williams' Freezer Burned Head
March 4th, 20098:01 pm
I would give Francouer advice on hitting, but what’s the use he doesn’t listen and does not appear to have the bat speed to overcome the league’s awareness of his weaknesses.
Gwinnett will be keeping a spot warm for you in RF when you wear out your welcome in Atlanta.
i cant believe that guy's name is "shut up DOB"!
March 4th, 20098:02 pm
brian @ 1:59 pm,
who put jeff in the position he is in right now? the fans? cmon dude. nearly two years of absolutely horrible baseball will warrant criticism in any city. as a matter of fact, he is quite lucky to be playing in such a laid back city. if he were in LA or in the northeast he would be blasted for his play…and then he would gone. if he was there now instead of here, he would have been long gone by now. if you are complete garbage right now at the plate, would you blow off a couple of ABs to go play golf? i would hope not.
March 4th, 20098:06 pm
…he should be fighting for a position, end of story. AtlBravesFan44
but he isn’t. They did not just settle with him not to start him no matter how poorly he does in ST. As some of us have said B4 and Dave has verified, teams place very little emphasis on ST numbers. The only players they might effect at all are guys on the cusp, and no matter what any of us fans think, Jeff is not on the cusp. Heywood ain’t starting the year here and Jeff ain’t starting it as anything but the regular RFer if he is healthy.
March 4th, 20098:12 pm
I will add one thing to the 8:02 post. If Frenchy had the last two seasons he’s had in Atlanta in NY, Chicago or Boston and then blasted out today to play golf with Tiger and then after the game the media found out the manager didn’t even know about the golf game -watch out. The radio waves would be cooking with gas on this. I’m not saying it would be right to do so or that Frenchy did anything wrong. What I’m saying is the media would have a field day with it.
I remember when Glavine returned last season he said he was looking forward to only facing a couple of beat writers and one national guy. “You do your 15 minutes on the day you pitch and then you’re left alone for four days.” It’s not only the cost of living that demands why guys get paid more in the big cities.
BTW- Did Carroll ever come back with anything more on this story or did it just die on the vine?
Frank from KS
March 4th, 20098:15 pm
TnBrian @ 6:51 p.m.
Good post, my man. I’m a fairly new blogger here….but I’m like you….a lot of the fellow bloggers p*** me off too to no end especially Mr. *Rock On* Dadgum.
What I can’t get over is him and whoever else….(and I’ve mentioned this before) is all their oppositon to Glavine being resigned, etc. While I realize he isn’t the *Tom Glavine* of old…..he’s still Tom Glavine who (if ya can’t remember) was one of our top pitchers during the major part of the 14 year division winning run.
Tom Glavine WILL have a pretty decent year. Mark my words and I’m for one am glad we signed Garrett Anderson too.
Oh and one more thing…..
Steve from OH
nolie, you can say it until you’re blue in the face, but there’s always gonna be folks screaming “play Heyward! Bench Frenchy!” from now until the end of time. Just do what I do…scroll right on past.
March 4th, 20098:21 pm
Steve from Oh -How ’bout my Rangers bringing Avery back? That should be interesting. Plus they made a couple of trades to get tougher today. Something they desperately need. I don’t think your Wings made any moves – did they? Not that they really needed to.
Sutton on Hanson « Rowland’s Office
March 4th, 20098:23 pm
[...] on Hanson 03/04/2009 at 8:23 pm | In Hanson | He knows pitching: “When you talk to a guy like that for five minutes, you throw the birth certificate out the [...]
March 4th, 20098:32 pm
Anders, I don’t believe they did. What they need more is for Chris Osgood to pull his head out of his arse and start playing like he’s capable of.
Your Rangers? Yeah, they got better, but dunno if it’ll be enough to get ‘em deep into the playoffs, but it helps, no doubt. Avery? Eh. Don’t really like the guy. Wish they woulda made him play that game right after he made the “sloppy seconds” comment. That woulda been fun. Did you know he came up with the Wings?
March 4th, 20098:43 pm
Steve- The only way the Rangers get deep in the playoffs is if Lundquist plays ridiculous goal – which he is capable of. Plus they have the number one PP killing unit. If they could just find some offense – especially on the PP, who knows? there I go trying to convince myself again. There’s nothing like playoff hockey though. Absolutely love it.
Yeah I knew Avery came up with the Wings. He’s really a self centered jerk. I’m not a fan but I have to admit when he plays for the Rangers they won a lot more than they did when he didn’t. Strange thing.
Sather really killed them with his signings. Drury, Gomez, Naslund and worst of all Redden. All overpaid. They have to find a way to dump one or two of those guys just to get cap space for next year.
Osgoods got two cups so you know he’s capable. Goalies run in streaks so you don’t want him too hot right now anyway.
March 4th, 20098:56 pm
Carroll, how did Medlen look to you?
Eric In Albany N.Y.
March 4th, 20099:02 pm
Im very happy glavine is in camp!
Last year i got to take a pic with him at champion stadium, and i hope this weekend i can get him to sign it! IM SUPER STOKED ABOUT GOING TO SEE THEM THIS WEEKEND!
March 4th, 20099:36 pm
Jeff321 (5:16 pm): “I love the Braves, dude.
“Actually I like everyone except Cox, Frenchy, Boyer, Acosta, Bennett, and Soriano.”
(4:37 pm): ”Or how about Bobby Cox sending Boyer, Bennett, Acosta, Soriano out there to give the game away?
It doesn’t really matter how good the starting pitching is.. if the bullpen is crap. The only 4 I want to see relieving are: Gonzalez, Moylan, Carlyle, Campillo.”
Dude, what are you smoking?
Acosta has pitched 76.2 innings with the Braves, posting a 3.17 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 1.33 K/BB, 4.70 BB/9 and 6.22 K/9.
Bennett has pitched 110.3 inning with the Braves, posting a 3.67 ERA, 1.36 WHIP, 1.64 K/BB, 4.08 BB/9 and 6.69 K/9.
On his career, Soriano has pitched 257.0 innings, with a 2.93 ERA, 1.03 WHIP, 3.42 K/BB, 2.70 BB/9 and 9.21 K/9.
For the Braves, Soriano has pitched 86.0 innings, with a 2.91 ERA, 0.91 WHIP, 3.58 K/BB, 2.51 BB/9 and 9.00 K/9.
Boyer’s decline the last few months of last season has already bee explained numerous times here – if you haven’t got it by now, nothing I say will change your mind. And even so, Boyer, in his 115.2 innings with the Braves has career numbers of 2.34 K/BB, 3.42 BB/9 and 8.01 K/9.
Why the heck you hatin on these guys? All of ‘em’s stats are comparable to or better than the four you love. They’re all valuable assets to the Braves.
You really are “and idiot” if you truly think of Acosta/Bennett/Boyer/Soriano as the “give it up boys”.
PS: And Stockman has pitched all of 11.1 innings with Atlanta.
March 4th, 20099:37 pm
Enter your comments here
March 4th, 20099:48 pm
Is this blog working?
March 4th, 20099:52 pm
I never suggested that Francoeur is lazy. In fact, I agree that he is not. My complaint is not about how much he works out or not. However, I have serious concerns about Francoeur’s mental make-up. I think another poster said this too, which is Francoeur still thinks and probably truly believes that he is “the natural” and the superstar to be. And thus, he believes that he should be treated as such. This is why he took great offense when he was optioned to the minors for a couple of games last year. It’s the same mentality that led him to give sort of a middle finger to years of baseball training knowledge and said I’m just going to become stronger a la football style, and that will help me get more power. Now since all this time, he has become hopefully a little wiser, which is why he focused on changing his stance, etc. But we as fans and the Braves front office also have to become smarter that there is less and less chance every day (and honestly by this point, very little chance) that Francoeur will become a player who will even feature in a single all-star game, let alone a hall of fame career. Francoeur’s ego or whatever it is that keeps leading him to believe that he is still a super prospect needs to be curtailed.
Of course, Cox has never been a disciplinarian, and will never be, but this whole idea of sort of turning a blind eye, when obviously Francoeur’s inflated ego makes him act like he’s a superstar (although objectively speaking he is one of the worst everyday players last year) is not going to solve the problem. I like many Braves fans used to be a great fan of Francoeur when he came up in ‘05 and in ‘06 and even to some point in ‘07. But when you see a guy who now has 3+ years of major league experience and without a modicum of improvement in pitch recognition, really suggests that either (A) he can’t tell any pitches apart or (B) he is extremely stubborn about his approach that even if someone better and more experienced gives him advice, he sort of nods along but doesn’t actually try to implement any changes. I really don’t think the answer is (A), as I don’t think he has problems with vision or space/distance cognition. So most likely Francoeur’s problems come from (B).
Now this golf thing is really a minor thing, and it’s not like Francoeur was going to take a whole day off or anything. But it’s just indicative of how Braves always give Francoeur the carrot and never the stick. They never really do anything to change his mentality. It’s just more of the “baby”-ing, like bringing him back after 3 days in minors last year or not risking upsetting him by going to arbitration panel when the chance of Francoeur winning was probably less than 1%. It’s like raising a child. Sure, you should be nice to your child and provide for your child and make him happy, but at some point you have to also lay down the law. I really wish the Braves would sometime really lay down the law with Francoeur and not just treat him on the same level as McCann, who has actually accomplished something and has heeded the advice of those more experienced.
March 4th, 200910:01 pm
FrankfromKC, ignore half the ones who devote their lives to this blog. They’ll correct you on the most meaningless sh–, and swear up and down you’re wrong when none of us really knows what goes on behind the scenes of this team. Bashing Francoeur is SOME of these people’s favorite hobby when you know damn well they couldn’t hit a softball to save their life. Say what you feel and ignore the ones who think they know everything about everything and think they own a fu– sports blog!
March 4th, 200910:05 pm
KCFrank, one more thing, you probably know the “politics rule” here. If not, just stay away from that stuff because there are some people that get offended. Why I don’t know, because both parties lie to no end.
March 4th, 200910:18 pm
Cubs ChiSox on WGN — Dye, Betemit, Tyler Flowers all starting for the Sox.
March 4th, 200910:25 pm
How about my Thrashers, baby?
Yeah. I hear the crickets.
March 4th, 200910:26 pm
>Why the heck you hatin on these guys? All of ‘em’s stats are comparable to or better than the four you love. They’re all valuable assets to the Braves.
To tell ya the truth. I don’t really care much about pitching stats. See, I watch the game and know the aforementioned GIUB’s are going to GIVE IT UP. I get tired of history repeating itself.
>You really are “and idiot” if you truly think of Acosta/Bennett/Boyer/Soriano as the “give it up boys”.
So, what’s wrong with wanting something new and fresh? I mean, anything is better than the same GIUB’s doing their thing!
> PS: And Stockman has pitched all of 11.1 innings with Atlanta.
I couldn’t help but notice you didn’t include Stockman’s sterling 0.79 ERA, eh?
As you said, he’s only pitched 11.1 innings.. However, I would sure like to see someone else get a chance to succeed or fail.
Finally, you do realize the Braves were dead last in saves last year, right? Translation: Even if Gonzalez is “lights out” this year.. There will be nothing to save if these never-will’s/has-been’s get trotted out there.
Btw, I won’t be back on the blog until tomorrow morning. Just letting you know in case you’re looking for a follow up.
March 4th, 200910:38 pm
For everyone worried about McCann being at the WBC and not “getting to know” our new pitchers, just think of it this way:
He’s putting together one hell of a scouting report on Peavy, Lilly, Oswalt, Grabow, Putz, etc. He’s going to own those guys this year.
Plus, I’m pretty sure he’s going to hide a pair of ‘roo nads in David Wright’s stuff before they leave. That should pretty much take care of that little problem.
March 4th, 200910:50 pm
1057.93 Watch the language !
Dorothy From Kansas….whatever, sorry I offend you. Guess I should just jump on the Glavine train right. I mean no sense giving another viewpoint on the blog, right? If you think Glavine will have a pretty decent year (assuming he makes the team), I can think of, oh, 3-4 pitchers that can pitch in the #5 slot and have decent to good years and not cost close to what Glavine costs. But by all means continue to jump on me and call me out because I irritate you to no end.
March 4th, 200910:51 pm
“I really wish the Braves would sometime really lay down the law with Francoeur and not just treat him on the same level as McCann, who has actually accomplished something and has heeded the advice of those more experienced.”…hubris March 4th, 2009 9:52 pm
I agree. I really wish that if Francoeur dosen’t show he has improved in ST, that the Braves send him to Triple A to start the season. G. Anderson, J. Anderson and platoon of Diaz/Schafer to start the season. OK defense, only slightly below average at the plate.
That would at least get JFs attention. I know it will never happen but ST is a time for hope…GO BRAVOS
Bay Area Steve
Random, I believe you to be an Anders-like ass, but thank you for the WGN info.
March 4th, 200910:57 pm
Josh Anderson looks great, hope he starts in CF. Frenchy sucks!!
March 4th, 200910:59 pm
“Francoeur is tied with Prado for the lowest BA on the team 0.91″
I’ll wager that Prado beats Francoeur in BA, OBP, and OPS this spring, just like he did last season.
What would make me believe otherwise? Prado’s been the more consistent player of the two over the last 2+ years.
March 4th, 200911:01 pm
Frank From KS…..sorry about Dorothy, anyway since you are relatively new here you don’t want to fall into the mode of being labeled a blog policeman. Some on this site will tell you what you should or shouldn’t do and to ignore this or that. They act like it is their freakin blog or something. State your views and take a stance and let others do the same. Getting chapped at denizens then calling them out for stating opinions, well, it ain’t cool man. Can’t we all just get along.
Now for 1057.93’s post well that ain’t cool and my good educated guess is that he will be removed from further posting. Hopefully.
March 4th, 200911:04 pm
Bay Area – don’t hold back Steve, tell us what you really think
Glavine – guy is a winner, lets throw him out there until the old paw falls off, cause if he is well he has a knack of WINNING and a proven t/record of doing so…
If he looks weak then cut and run and pitch the kid/s
N Nine (eta32)
March 4th, 200911:08 pm
Another day and I see Frenchy’s still in everyone’s mind again. it’s too much fun to pass it up …right?.
Boy this WBC stinks. We have our fragile leader playing and of course McCann, who has new teammates to learn and get on same page with. This WBC is costly for the Bravos. I don’t approve of this Bud Selig
Some say why not DEC or JAN. Do you think players want that? They do work 8-9 months a year!!! Lets just throw this idea out the window.
stop this WBC crap
March 4th, 200911:11 pm
Carroll, if you’re ever in Tampa, go to the original Columbia in Ybor City. Really cool atmosphere & 100+ years of history to go with the very good food.
Update from the Cubs/White Sox game.
It’s in the 4th inning and there have been no reports of anyone leaving to play golf. Then again, it is a night game!
Jeff Franceour belongs on the PGA
March 4th, 200911:19 pm
Let him go play golf and I’ll take John Daly for right field, at least he would be entertaining in a pathetic sort of way
March 4th, 200911:22 pm
Dadgum, you like repeating what others post? Like I said, some think this blog is their baby or something, and you just repeated what I wrote. You know what ain’t cool, writing “that ain’t cool”. You sound like a hippy, pot head.
March 4th, 200911:23 pm
Is it Jeff “Francouer” or Jeff “Franceour”?
I get confused.
March 4th, 200911:24 pm
1057.93 KMA Diamondnumbnuts.
How very mature of you.
March 4th, 200911:29 pm
Every time I cross one of those lines (sometimes it gets the better of everyone) I regret it because I have to build up goodwill all over again. ANDERS
I think you have a pretty good rep here with most of the reasonable posters. As for the haters, I bet you don’t care much.
Wow, this blog is approaching the unreadable levels.
It’s sad but I think that the quick posting has actually made it worse not better, now it just makes it easy for idiots to band together and repeatedly stroke each other’s egos over and over again in a shorter amount of time. It’s like 7 Secrets for Highly Efficient Morons. I’ve never seen such prolific prognosticators of pure crap.
I mean, I’ve always disagreed with some people on here, and enjoyed discussing/arguing with them, but this is just pages and pages of mindless nonsense.
Plus now with the pagination I can’t just Ctrl + F “David O’Brien” to get the actual news all at once.
Hopefully when we get into the Dog days some of the spring training naysayers will have given up on us, or maybe even we’ll be playing well enough that they don’t have much to say.
March 4th, 200911:34 pm
Runs Scored is the most important stat because that is The Object of the Game. RBIs are also highly indicative of a player’s and a team’s propensity to achieve The Object of the Game.
No doubt, but the arguments begin when you try to decide how to structure your team in order to create all those runs scored, don’t you think? For myself I’ll take 8 decent players who all have OBP above .390. Bet I score a whole buncha runs.Others wanna go another way.
Anyone else think KJ is going to have a break out year? I know I’ve been on the KJ bandwagon since day one, and have taken somewhat of a drubbing for it-but I want it posted here for future generations to see…Epinephrine called KJ’s breakout year.
March 4th, 200911:35 pm
Great that LEREW cleared waivers. He gave appearances of coming around while here in RICHMOND last year. Good to see him still with the organization. I think he’s got a future in MLB even if not with ATLANTA.
March 4th, 200911:38 pm
March 4th, 200911:39 pm
Tough night for the Jayhawks DOB.
N Nine – How is Chipper any more likely to be hurt playing games for Team USA than with the Braves during ST?
March 4th, 200911:42 pm
check. Got you down! KJ always brings more optimism than anyone I can recall. Even with the way he started his MLB career. Good for you and I hope you’re correct.
Stockman was filthy here in the first half of ‘08, absolutely lights out.
March 4th, 200911:45 pm
At least its for the Braves! WBC brings no benefits for our team.
March 4th, 200911:47 pm
one round of golf with the best player in the world. dont get all moaning about that.
the real concern will be, if on march 25th or so he has shown no power numbers.
March 4th, 200911:49 pm
Here’s a question. What % chance do yall give Jeff Bennett of making the opening day roster? Carrol? Everyone? I’ll say 70% PWH
if he’s healthy I’d say 80-85%. He’s the ground-ball out guy that Bobby loves to have available. Actually I’m more than ok with him.
you didn’t ask me, but if Glavine has a history of performing poorly in the first inning(which i agree that he does) isn’t that the closest thing to relieving since there is no way to absolutely prove it one way or the other? seems like the odds are not all that good for him , and he likely wouldn’t be a LOOGy either since LHers often hit him well. I will say that I think there is no way in the world that Bobby is gonna use him as a reliever on a regular basis. In fact I’d place a pretty large wager on that even though one should never say never.
March 4th, 200911:50 pm
stockman may have good stuff but he has never been able to hold runners on. that is a death sentence in the majors for late inning relievers.
the bloke needs to learn a slide step.
March 4th, 200911:58 pm
I hear the names of Stockman,Lerew, etc. way more than I’ve ever seen them play, and probably more than they’ll ever play for Atl. The Braves have the luxury of having guys like these for a trade this summer. I can definitely see a trade for a guy like Holliday come July. He’d be a 4 month rental, but Bean out in Oak. has been known to surprise baseball with a trade out of nowhere. Maybe a deal of Prado,Diaz,Stockman,Reyes for Holliday if Atl. thinks they really need that extra piece to go all the way, and of course Oak. would have to be completely out of the race for it to happen.
N Nine (eta31)
March 5th, 200912:01 am
Is that why Stockman has gotten no love from Bobby?
aaah one month until the glory starts. Happy times
March 5th, 200912:05 am
I don’t know what’s up with Billy Beane, but he is trying hard this season. He has been super active for his standards. Just signed O cabrara and Nomar the other day.
March 5th, 200912:06 am
No, it’s just that I was taught that foul language is a sign of a limited mind. Thank you for proving that my teachers were correct.
March 5th, 200912:08 am
1057.93 This will be my last exchange with you. I find you quite boring.
March 5th, 200912:14 am
Nolie, that is only part of the equation. The other part is too much ignored. The object of the game is not just to score runs, but also to prevent runs. The object is to score more runs than the other team more often than anyone else. Thus, most of the debate is more like one dimensional. It focuses on offense. Yet defense is equally important. Both are being played the whole game (intermittently). That adds a second dimension that is rarely given equal billing. Then the third dimension would be “team” which brings in things that can not be seen by just looking at individuals. It includes things like what people say about perpetual winners– “swagger”…. and many things that makes it very obvious that the whole is greater than the sum of its members. This is very much lost in the debates because it can not be measured by numbers. Some of its results will be reflected in numbers, but the full meaning of team and all of its components are outside the realm of numbers. This is why so much of the debating is really very laughable. Because the last one (and often the second dimension as well) is/are totally left out of the debate. Part of the reason is because people want to put things in a box (their knowledge and understanding) but if anyone is aware of team sports at all, they should quickly realize such a sport will not fit into the nice little box. This is why there is no way for anyone to mathematically determine who will win each division. There are unknown variables. Certainly things like injuries enter into it, but other things that are not necessarily concrete or visible are also included. Some of these things players are aware of because they are actually part of the “team” (not just an organization, but almost like an organism instead). But other things even they will say (when pressed) something to the effect of “I don’t know what it is. I can’t put my finger on it. It just seems like we can win at will.”
Because of this, it would be wise to be looking for more than hits and outs. There is something else that the Braves need even if Jeff has a tremendous year. They must be “team”. Some call it mojo. I call it “winners”. It is a team that has someone to make the right play at the right time night after night. Their stats don’t necessarily stand out. It is not that they necessarily get more hits or make more great plays than others. It is that they come at the right time and the rest of the team feeds off of it no matter who it is. This is a “must” for any team to win it all. It is what the Braves must find among themselves. Interestingly, it does often affect most players stats when this “winner” is experienced. But it is not the stats that makes the “winner”, but the other way around.
N Nine, sounds like he wants to win, but the idot keeps trading guys like Blanton, Harden, Haren(got a lot for him though), Hudson, Street etc. Maybe he’s smokin some good Cali sh–.
March 5th, 200912:17 am
The main stud we need (besides Moylan if he’s ready) for the 7th or 8th inning is Phil Stockman. However, I doubt Cox will have him on the team or actually use him in close situations. JEFF321
the guy just cannot seem to stay healthy. He was injured much of last season even while so many on here were demanding he be pitched. I would love to see him have a full healthy year so we can see just how well he might do.
March 5th, 200912:19 am
Time for bed. Good night and God bless you all.
March 5th, 200912:26 am
I think Stephen Marek has a better shot than Stockman.
March 5th, 200912:31 am
I need to get some sleep too. Gotta get up at 7am for a fun day of digging with shovels and more BS work! Oh, well…that’s life
March 5th, 200912:40 am
But it is not the stats that makes the “winner”, but the other way around PTBNL
not necessarily disagreeing, but how ’bout all those Yankee and As teams that fought like cats and dogs and won regularly? And although you are correct about there being other components, most of the talk this off-season has centered around a perceived lack of offense, thus that’s where my comments have usually been aimed. Personally I think defense and pitching are more important and have often said so. Very few teams have been ultimately successful on just a great offense, though many fans find that to be exciting.
March 5th, 200912:49 am
I think the guy that will have a breakout year is Kotchman. Saying Kj will have a breakout year was like listening to all the Dodger media and fan hype here in LA between 1995-2003 every spring, especially after a lot of good starts to the season.
I think KJ will be a little more consistent this year, and thus put up better numbers than last year. I think he’ll hit .285, 15, 73, and that is low balling, so I really think he’ll have a good year.
I think most of his production and improved consistency will come from batting lower in the order with less expectations, where pitchers forget about his ability a little.
I really think a lot of our hitters will have fine years. Much like all Dodger hype though, I thought the same thing last year. Yunel, Kotch, McCann, KJ, Chipper, I think will have fine years, and I think our bench and bullpen are going to be great assets for once. When Chipper goes down this year, we’ll finally have some back-ups that can hit (infante/prado). Like our starting pitching, our bullpen also seems to have a lot of depth.
Even if the hitting struggles with consistency like the last 2 years (shoot, even most of the glory days), our pitching depth (especially our starting pitching), will win us a lot of games. Starting pitching is the key, and I think Wren and Bobby finally stocked up enough good arms. Our offense, especially with Garret and some quick guys at the top of the order like Anderson, should be able to move runners and plate them in close games, unlike last year. They’ve been doing that a few times this spring, so I think someone like Bobby has said something and finally created a team concept that players can follow. Seems like Bobby got the memo that the league is transitioning back somewhat into a strategic ABC style ball. Hopefully Alzheimer’s doesn’t kick in & he has these guys swinging for the fences waiting for the 3-run bomb again.
How’s that for a optimistic post to close out the day? See, it’s easy when you don’t think of a certain pl…, oh nevermind….
Bill in VA
March 5th, 200912:51 am
Thanks DiamondbackMac, God Bless & G’nite.
March 5th, 200912:52 am
My reasoning from the last post:
Our pitching will take some pressure off our hitters. Seems like the guys were pressing too much the last few years because of lack of confidence in the pitching staff.
March 5th, 20091:04 am
Those teams had something, again, it is not really a visible thing. They may not have had what we call unity, but they did have something that made them click. It is not just “talent”, otherwise the Yankees would have had opportunity to be even more dominant throughout the years. In my lifetime they have had years where they were truly “stacked”, but did not win.
I am glad you mentioned those teams, because that is a misconception as well. We think that this “winners” experience can be manufactured by getting like minded people together to work in “unity”. This has been tried in various ways, but as you can see, it is not the basic element of “winners”. I do think it can be helpful, but as you pointed out, it is not essential. Somehow the teams you mentioned fed off of each others differences. It is almost like they liked a measure of dysfunction. I think of the Phillies team with Dykstra et al. They too seemed to feed off of dysfunction. They did not fit the “mold” of what would be traditionally called “team”. But they still had the “winners”.
Like I said, it is something that is not really visible and in a sense it really is beyond definition for me. But anyone who has experienced it, knows it when they run into it again. And it is part of why the reigning champion is automatically considered a team to beat. They may not really look all that good on paper, but for some reason they may well carry “winners” into the next year.
Yes, I understand that you were commenting in context. And it was not really your quote that said that “the” most important stat is runs scored. You quoted from someone else. I did realize that. I was making comment to you because you were the one who was still here.
Sorry. I should have clarified that.
call me crazy
March 5th, 20091:10 am
Breaking news: T.O. has been released hahah
and final game just finished pheww now I cann sleep like our buddy DiamondbackMac
March 5th, 20091:15 am
(Non Brave) Terrell Owens has been released by the Dallas Cowboys
Bobby’s Cox, Stockman’s out of options. Marek isn’t.
It would be an awful shame if we let Stockman go without ever giving him a chance here. Over the past 3 years, Stockman has been UNBELIEVABLY dominant at AA and AAA. Completely outclassing hitters. And he’s looked pretty damned good in brief Atlanta stints.
Of course, the issue with him is that he can’t stay healthy longer than 5 minutes. Still… a guy with that much ability, you just can’t release or trade for a case of bats.
I’m hoping Stockman gets his shot. If he doesn’t, I don’t think it’ll be because of Marek.
March 5th, 20091:46 am
Stockman has made more than 30 appearances only once since he broke into pro ball in 1998. He was 18. He’s 29 now. I really can’t see him being a part of the bullpen for any length of time.
March 5th, 20092:37 am
It’s true that sometimes something special seems to take over a team, I have seen that at all levels, but it does not always happen even with winning teams. I’ve seen teams that had at, even for most of a season and then lost it. I believe that from an individual emotional/mental standpoint that confidence is crucial. What I’ve seen seems to be a collective confidence that feeds on itself and success. Byt it can be fragile. I don’t think that I believe as strongly as you do in it’s power. In that regard I think it is as much a hindsight thing as not. If it lasts and the team succeeds it is regarded as an intregal part but if it fades, it is forgotten. Like the so-called White Sox esprit de corps of a few years ago. oops next season it was gone with much the same crew. As regards building a team, if you can’t really describe it and have no real idea what causes it(similarity/diversity/etc) then I think that you pretty much have to ignore it and hope when you build the team that it(he) will come. There is indeed a certain comraderie in team sports and winning makes it all the more exciting and i think that is the basis of what we (I anyway) are discussing. Good posts though. I enjoyed reading them.
March 5th, 20092:52 am
People listen to yourselves for a minute, Jeff Francouer actually played in a game that Bobby said he shouldn’t have. Last time i checked its early spring training and Francouer came in and got his at bat and at the most would have had one more, so he handle his buisness and recieved an invite to play with Smoltz and Tiger. One question would you people turn down a chance to play golf with those two men if you were let free for the afternoon? Wow is all i have to say some of you really overreact and it is quite annoying.
March 5th, 20093:46 am
More on WBC
March 5th, 20094:55 am
That was a superlative game report, Carroll Rogers. Helps that it was all good news.
March 5th, 20095:55 am
Can T.O. play right field for the Braves??
March 5th, 20095:58 am
Even though Campillo was great for us last year I might look at that spot for Hanson. Unless Glavine just can’t get it done.
March 5th, 20096:35 am
Boog’s chillin’ in Tokyo, eh?
March 5th, 20096:39 am
For those of you who really like Jon Sciambi, and I must say that I believe he is a very good announcer, ESPN2 has him over in Asia doing the Japan versus China game right now. Yu Dervish has been outstanding for Japan. I am watching on the computer. MLB.TV has a new player and the quality is light years ahead of what they had in the past. This year, I think I will actually use their service instead of Extra Innings on Time Warner Cable, if this is the quality available. Save 50-60 dollars and be able to watch various DVRed movies and shows on TV simultaneously, plus Braves when on FOX, ESPN, and MLB Channel. Plus can see taped game in entirety on computer since I am usually in bed by 9 or 9:30. Understand I live in Durham, NC; unlike those of you in Atlanta area, we do not get all the Braves games for free. Also, we have to contend with blackouts on games with Nationals and Orioles, for some weird reason even though we are four plus and five plus hours drive from their stadiums. At least, we are not blacked out from Braves. Maybe some day the Durham Bulls will be a major league franchise. Perhaps I will actually go to some of their games and see the super pitchers from Gwinnett Braves this year.
March 5th, 20097:36 am
Been traveling so have only been reading.
Some interesting posts last night. Some not so much..
In terms of Frenchy, I am also worried that he will not produce. But I was worried last year and all winter. His new mechanics will take a bit of time to work and that will be a problem for him.
If he continues like this into the season, his numbers will matter, and he will THINK he has to do something to produce. Like maybe go back to his old ways?
I think Bobby and Braves management need to sit him down and tell him we don’t care what your stats say, continue doing things the right way and we will stand by you.
They have to give him 1/2 a season to see if he can get anything out of the “new way.”
March 5th, 20098:09 am
Now there’s ONE thing I believe SUTTON could do well. Sportscaster sure isn’t it.
March 5th, 20098:17 am
flange1 I agree with you 100%. I would not bet against Cox and the Braves already having had that talk with him. while his numbers so far don’t show it, the lack of strike outs is a good sign that his new stance is working.
I am optimistic Frenchy will put it together
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